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Wins are there, but so are questions

by in Commentary | November 22nd, 2011

Five games into the season, the 2011-12 Indiana Hoosiers have yet to be challenged.

Four games in Assembly Hall and one at the Ford Center in Evansville have produced five wins by 20 points or more by Indiana. That’s never happened in the history of the program.

Dig into the box scores and you’ll find little to nitpick with the way Tom Crean’s team has dismantled the opposition.

The fouling epidemic, an Achilles’ Heel a season ago, has tempered at least for the time being. The Hoosiers are one of the top shooting teams in the country thanks to unselfish, crisp ball movement and smart shot selection. And there’s an inside scoring threat roaming the paint for IU for the first time since D.J. White’s departure. His name is Cody Zeller and he’s already picked up two Big Ten Freshman of the Week awards.

IU’s 5-0 start feels different than last season, when the Hoosiers didn’t always win convincingly. This year, IU has left little doubt who is the better team. There are high fives, smiles and a cohesiveness present in Assembly Hall that was not visible last winter.

But how much better is this Indiana team?

The answer to that question will begin to take shape in the coming weeks when the competition level increases. Significantly.

For as much credit that was given to teams like Stony Brook and Chattanooga by the preseason prognosticators, the early results don’t bear out those wins to be as impressive as originally believed.

Stony Brook, picked by some to win the America East, followed their loss to Indiana with a win over a Division III team and a road loss to Sacred Heart. And Chattanooga, selected by several publications to win their division in the Southern Conference, followed up a loss at Butler by dropping a home game to Kennesaw State.

The Evansville win is clearly the best of the five and the Purple Aces currently sit at No. 192 in the Sagarin Ratings.

The meat of the non-conference schedule, which will set the early tone for IU’s chances to get back to the NCAA Tournament, tips off Sunday.

And over a span of 20 days, Indiana should learn where it stands in a group of four games.

Butler, the two-time defending national runner-up, is down but capable of defending at a high level. North Carolina State, slated to finish in the bottom third of the ACC, just beat Texas on a neutral court after trailing by 18 in the second half. Kentucky, currently ranked No. 2 in the country, is stocked with talent poised for the NBA. And Notre Dame, led by Tim Abromaitis and Scott Martin, will present a neutral-court challenge and an opportunity to get a win over a Big East team.

These contests will help answer questions that still remain and cannot be answered in a blowout of Gardner-Webb.

Will Indiana crash the glass at a more effective rate than they have to this point? Crean has talked up the importance of rebounding on both ends of the floor and the Hoosiers rank outside of the top 150 nationally in both offensive and defensive rebounding percentage.

How will this group respond when it’s knocked back on its heels and is forced to respond with a punch of its own? To this point, Indiana not been faced with that dilemma.

And if Cody Zeller gets into foul trouble, can this group be effective without him for extended minutes? It’s bound to happen at some point.

These are the games in which a win will impress the selection committee come March. They’re also games that Indiana needs to be competitive in if 2011-12 is truly going to be the Hoosiers’ turnaround season.

The Hoosiers made a statement they’re capable of winning on the road with their performance six days ago in Evansville.

The next step — and chance to make another statement — begins Sunday.

  • http://www.insidethehall.com/ Alex Bozich

    Do we really need the extra caps for emphasis? Just asking.

  • JerryCT

    Usually i agree w you but not this time on Jones. He has more assists, steals, blocks, rebounds and pts than Hulls while playing good denial defense……. for the season .

    At the end of this thread I will post the results of categorizing the floor play of both for this game. It took awhile to compile

  • IUJeff

    I think caps are okay. Easily scannable to find the guy drama that is going on.

    On another note, we won’t have an elite point guard until next year so we have to live with the guys we have now. And yes, they both will ALWAYS have their shortcomings.  

  • Anonymous

    I for one am not pleased, though, that Michigan appears to have a reasonably good replacement for Morris in the freshman Burke.

  • stonaroni

    The great things about this team is that VJIII or Hulls can man the point for long durations of time and we can play which ever of the two is being consistent.

    VJIII got a black eye last year about his PG play, and some was deserved.  However, VJIII ran the offense CTC designed.

    This year our offense seems a lot more crisp and VJIII doesn’t have to dribble out top and wait for a screen because this offense involves more movement, screens and post play.

    Neither VJ or Hulls are good on D, but VJIII has 5 inches on Hulls and a lot wider wing span.

  • HoosierDadE

    I already removed it from my favorites…

    Whew, had to put it back.  I could never do that to Alex.

  • matt

    you must be an attorney

  • JerryCT

    On SHeehey : I was about to complain about him and then he has a breakout in the 2nd half earning a pass on my part.

    On Jones: I rewatched the game as always and noted the floor play and times . Not counting defense , rebounds, or shots ( just the floor play ) the result shows clearly :

    + Hulls made 8 notable plays 4 of which were good while the other 3 including 2 TO’s were dumb ie stolen ball, inbounds pass to the defender and the untouchable pass to CZ.  and 1 feed to CZ who saved it from going out of bounds which I consider aggressive vs dumb

    + Jones had 17 notable plays , including 4 assists, 5 fouls drawn, 6 feeds to players who missed layup like shots , CZ ( 3), TP(1), VO(2). How were his TO’s ? One pass on the break to CZ and one stolen ball on a drive from help D

    So far ,this year only , I do not see the factual basis for complaining about Jones. If Jones has a bad game you can count on me to highlight it but right now the kid is a remarkable makeover.

  • MillaRed

    Let’s agree for the sake of the other readers we will move on. Thank you.

  • Anonymous

    How else would you know that he is yelling at his computer? On that topic, dude stop yelling at your electronic devices.

  • Anonymous

    Great commentary Alex.  This is exactly where my head is at.  I won’t be picky for now based on the fact that we have ultimately taken care of business against lesser foes.  But, I am curious, anxious and optimistic to see how our boys perform against Butler, NC State, Kentucky and Notre Dame ahead of B10 season.  

    In my opinion, based on our play, I would be mad if we went 1-3, disappointed if we went 2-2,  pleased if we went 3-1, and ecstatic if we went 4-0 against the above teams ahead of B10 play.  I am hoping for one of the two latter scenarios.

    Go Hoosiers!

  • Anonymous

    I don’t want to be downer but we all have to understand that it is entirely possible that we go 0-4 through these games. IU has looked much better but at the same time we haven’t really proved anything yet. If we lose to Butler which is an absolute possibility then go on to lose @ NCSU that will deflate all of the confidence that has been gained. We all know what can happen from there as we play KY then ND on neutral court. Follow that with @MSU, OSU, and MICH and we could be 8-7 (0-3). How would this team fair after that? I am cautiously optimistic that won’t happen but I’ve been cautiously optimistic for quite some time now and have been disappointed.

  • Anonymous

    Milla, I created a spreadsheet to compare VJ3 and Hulls out of curiosity.  I only included high-major programs on the schedule last year as I don’t think the Savannah States of the world tell us much.

    VJ3- 61 Ast, 43 TO, 1.4 A/T ratio in 19 games
    Hulls- 61 Ast, 40 TO, 1.5 A/T ratio in 22 games

    So VJ averaged 3.2 Assists and 2.2 Turnovers while Hulls had 2.7 assists with 1.8 turnovers.

    Pretty similar numbers, with VJ creating slightly more but forcing slightly more.

  • Anonymous

    Not to be confused with the new Victor Oladipo facepalm move to pump him up.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Steve-Fischer/691470077 Steve Fischer

    One never knows. I watched Cal beat a pretty good Georgia Team by a bigger margin than it beat the cupcakes. Bobby Knight – great commentary and predicted Cal would beat a ranked Missouri team tonight.  ESPN  – great game.

  • eph521

    AGREED. THERE IS NO NEED FOR THE EXTRA CAPS.

  • MillaRed

    I think there are similarities to their games in ball handling and defense. They are both capable scorers in different ways.

    This kind of turned into a VJ vs Jordy deal and that was not my intention. But I do think your stats are interesting.

    I am glad both of them are Hoosiers.

  • Anonymous

    I look forward to Jerry making you do more things you don’t intend (for the lulz)

  • Anonymous

    VJ had a great spin move in the post against Evansville.  Surprised we didn’t see more of it vs. SVS and GW who clearly had smaller guards.

  • Anonymous

    Sorry to pick on you Aceman since the topic was raised in a different thread, but to me, Hulls has just as much trouble, if not more, against pressure defense when bringing the ball up. While VJ is more prone to poor passes, Jordy is more likely to get ripped and/or pick up his dribble too soon (the latter of which leads to much easier transition baskets).

  • Anonymous

    I am out of the office until 11/28/2011.

    I’ll respond to your messages when I return.

    Note: This is an automated response to your message “[insidethehall] Re: Wins are there, but so are questions” sent on 11/22/2011 11:08:53.

    This is the only notification you will receive while this person is away.
    “PLEASE NOTE: The preceding information may be confidential or privileged. It only should be used or disseminated for the purpose
    of conducting business with Parker. If you are not an intended recipient, please notify the sender by replying to this message and then delete the information from your system. Thank you for your cooperation.”

  • Anonymous

    How is VJ the weak link when Hulls gets benched to start the 2nd half?  I’ll take Crean’s side on this one.

    Regardless, neither is the weak link – as @CreamandCrimson:disqus said above, they just bring different skill sets and limitations.

  • Plane1972

    I’m channeling Will Ferrell from the locker room scene in Old School imploring everyone “NOT TO FREAK OUT! LET’S KEEP OUR COMPOSURE!”

  • Anonymous

    I thought the CT was “Cuddling with Tom”

  • INUnivHoosier

    I’m not particularly convinced that this is a team that needs to push from the start. They seem to be a little sloppy when they are really pushing the pace. I like the idea of running some nice half-court sets during the beginning of the first half, let the nerves calm a little bit, get settled into the game, run the other guy through screens, and execute some good passing to help wear down the defense. We then have the ability to push the pace as the half moves along because we can bring fresh energy and skill off the bench, where a lot of other teams can’t match that. When the other team is tired, some of the sloppiness is mitigated by the other team being too tired to get into the passing lanes, alter shots, etc. Of course, that changes against a team with a deep bench. Even then, a lot of our bench players have more experience (a la TP, DE, Roth, Moore, WS). Just a thought.

  • Anonymous

    Not determining which of the two is the weak link, but I’d say the beginning of the second half last night was in direct correlation to the first half, and Jordy didn’t have a great game.  There will be games when he outplays Verdell, but last night was not one of them.  It was also probably an opportunity to put three big guys on the floor and pound Gardner-Webb into submission.

  • Anonymous

    What if we’re quoting Gus Johnson? HA HA!

  • Plane1972

    I think we handle Butler and Notre Dame and have our hands full against NC State on the road and the Cats at home. We will outlast Butler because we have more to throw at them this year, but it won’t be a cake walk. Crean will enjoy dusting off the Big East playbook for ND (ala Pitt victory). Winning on the road against NC State is doable, but difficult. Would love to see UK’s freshmen wilt beneath a hostile crowd in Bloomington, but I’m not counting on it. The upperclassmen will have to show some real leadership over a bunch of freshmen, then we got a shot.

  • Anonymous

    Another factor on the low number of offensive rebounds could be the fact that the ball is being shot from closer to the basket than it generally was last year.  Three-pointers tend to careen farther from the rim providing greater opportunities for offensive rebounds. Even ones that don’t bounce far are in the air long enough for teammates to “crash the boards.”  When the ball is shot off a drive or a dump-down there generally isn’t a convergence of players to the lane and the defensive players have a lot better chance at the ball.

  • Anonymous

    I don’t know if I agree with your premise. I think one of the main reasons our opponents are getting tired as you mentioned, is due to the fast pace we are forcing  them to defend for 40 minutes.    Most teams can run with us for parts of a half, but the fact we are running the whole game, IMO has been one of the main factors in the huge second half runs we have been able to put together in all 5 games.    The announcers pointed that out last night when Crean told Hulls to start pushing the pace, that they felt GW was tired.   This should work to our advantage in the Butler game, they are very good at slowing the game down, and could probably stay with any team in the country for a half, but if we continue to force the issue, I feel like we are going to wear them down and open it up a little bit in the second half.

  • INUnivHoosier

    Agreed. Jones has come a long way from his former self. Does he still make dumb plays? Yes. Does Watford make dumb plays? Yes. Pritchard? Yes. Hulls? Yes. You get the point.

  • JohnFromBeyond

    I might agree that Verdell does more good than bad, but I’m not sure he does enough good to outweigh the bad. If he is 60% good and 40% bad, I’m not satisfied. There are others waiting to go out there and get his minutes, and won’t make 40% bad plays. These are just made up numbers to make my point, I don’t know what the real ratio is, but I do know he’s leading the team in turnovers yet again.

    What’s frustrating about Verdell is that when he does screw up, he does it in a really bonehead way. Case in point: Look at the play about a minute before halftime. Verdell gets the ball at the top of the paint and immediately three defenders collapse on him. I’ve told my son many times, never drive against 2 defenders, and never, NEVER drive against 3 defenders. Plus, if you are triple teamed, that means two people are open, so look to pass. What does Verdell do? He tries to drive against 3 defenders and promptly gets the ball stolen. That’s a freshman in high school mistake.

    A lesser mistake follows at the other end… Verdell is defending at the top of the key and a screen is set way out in the open. It was not a quick screen, it was pretty obvious, and the ball handler did not immediately try to use it. For a couple seconds Verdell made no effort to reposition himself to counteract the screen. Sure enough, the ball handler uses the screen and Verdell is picked right off. Verdell can’t wait around and let himself get picked off by such a weak screen in the B1G. Fortunately Cody is waiting behind him to cut off any ball attack so there is no harm done. This time. 

    On the other hand, Verdell has made some awesome passes to Cody for assists. He’s just so inconsistent.

  • INUnivHoosier

    I guess I’m just living with the memory of the past 3 years when we started games with massive turnovers and hemorrhaging. If they can come out pushing the pace against Butler and NCSU, I think I’ll feel a lot better.

    I just don’t want to see nerves get them in a 10 point hole at the beginning instead of a 10 point lead. I feel like pushing the pace generally amplifies nerves and mistakes.

  • Southport65

    Jerry, Sorry but your last few words will not happen. I love you but you have been defending jones for 4 years now and telling us hulls is worst for 3 years. I just don’t think that will ever change. Somebody has to give Jones some love so you go! 

  • Anonymous

    I’m thinking D1referee conspiracy. It almost looks like since he is not playing near as many minutes that they are even quicker with the whistle, if that is possible. Maybe they have a thing where whoever calls the first one / most on him gets part of the other two’s paycheck. I kid, but it sure seems like there is something going on. I really do feel for him.

    I don’t know about you but I am really disappointed that his “true” father has let this kind of thing go on as long as it has. I know if something as unfair as this was happening to my son there would be a bounty put out, a call from my senator in D.C. to the head of NCAA bball officiating or a late night visit form someone whose last name ended in vowel and spoke with an Italian accent OR SOMETHING.

  • MillaRed

    “Marcus from deep and he scores!!!!!!!!!”

  • MillaRed

    Love that movie. Will Ferrell should be our coach.

  • MillaRed

    I think for he whose name we do not speak is upset about TP’s PT.

    Did you see that?  I reversed TP for PT and it made sense.

  • cooper

    Not sure I agree Evansville shows you can compete on the road. Regardless, the next four games will show whether IU can compete in conference this year.  

    I’m still concerned how the back court will look against an athletic team. If they can handle an athletic team and still run they have a chance to compete in the B10.  

  • MillaRed

    The post of the day goes to millzy32 and his out of office reply.

    Alex, does he win something? This is at least worth a cooly cup.

  • Anonymous

    I think its much easier to “push the pace” against the teams we have been playing.  I think it gets much more difficult to do in the B10 where they are good at slowing down teams.  I think we need to work more on our half court offense.

    Also IU needs to realize the match up situations they’re in when pushing the ball up the court so fast.  A lot of the times last night when we pushed the ball, Webb was also back on defense and sometimes we were actually outnumbered and still forced the action.  It’s good to push but also good to pull up when the numbers aren’t there (or just give the ball to Cody every time).

  • JerryCT

    For the record:

    In this discussion my point is about trashing Jones or any player for that matter w/o current evidence. I only mention Hulls because I need a yardstick to make my point. Which is ……….. so far ……….. this season ……….. if you love Hulls ………… you should be loving Jones as well.

    I have been hard on every player maybe even irrationally at times but one …………………….my adopted son  ……………….Tom Prtichard. Hope he continues to heal.

    I think we will need his bulk against Butler and ND.

  • Anonymous

    the biggest change I have seen from VJ in the past 2-3 games is that he is noticeably “trying” to get other players involved and not trying to run the show himself and that’s the biggest thing I could ask of him.  He seems to try to get Zeller the ball more than anyone else and I think he has.  I didn’t think his D was terrible last night either; he has the height at his position; he just needs to force his man to help D more. 

    I really don’t have that many complaints for VJ up to this point.

  • Anonymous

    i thought is was “Cut your Throat” seeing as he’s Sicillian.

  • 11th and Done (Dunn)

    Me like basketball. Me like dunkshot. Purdue suks.

  • Anonymous

    i was most disappointed in our 3-pt shoting percentage last night. We need to have an arsenal of set plays to get open looks in the paint, back-door cuts, and clean looks from 3 range. GWU also sorta took away our transition game by getting back on D quickly.

  • 11th and Done (Dunn)

    Booya.

  • Anonymous

    I’m with you.  I think our high FG% has been the result of taking “easier” shots.

  • Aceman_Mujezinovic_07

    Oh yeah.  No question.  He’s good for about 10-12 minutes of defense to relieve Zeller before he fouls out.

  • MillaRed

    I think he would like to cut my throat sometimes

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