Should IU bring Matt Roth back?
Yesterday, via our dear friends at the Hoosier Scoop, we got a clearer picture of Matt Roth’s progress from his foot injury. We know the boot is off; he even was shooting around a bit before the Iowa game.
Some quotes from coach Tom Crean on his radio show last evening:
We’re getting closer to decision time,” Crean said on his radio show Monday night. “He’s ahead of schedule, what that totally means, we’re getting closer to finding out.”
“We’d really like him back,” Crean said. “And the thing about Matt is not only can he shoot it, but Matt moves the basketball. When that ball stops, and that thought gets out ‘lets see if I have a play before I make the next pass.’ That’s the stuff we’ve gotta go through, and it drives me nuts.”
If you remember back when the injury occurred in Puerto Rico, Crean did indicate that if Roth was still unable to play in February, the team wouldn’t bring him back aboard; instead they’d apply for a medical hardship and give Roth another year of eligibility.
We’re about at the breaking point here: Roth may be ahead of schedule, but if he’s still not good to go very soon, it’s likely he won’t play this season.
But let’s not reach that conclusion just yet. Let’s talk about where Roth fits in with this current incarnation of the Hoosiers. Roth is certainly no NBA talent, but he’s also a guy that can hit the outside shot like few others on this team. When he’s hot, he’s hot. It takes some serious shooting talent to be able to knock down nine threes — tied for an IU record — as a freshman. So where I see him fitting in sans Mo Creek is another option for IU in the corners or out on the wings to knock down treys. Think of him as a Jordan Hulls type, except without the point guard skills. I’m not sure his presence in Crean’s system allows this Hoosiers team another win or two, but who knows: when IU failed to hit a three against Iowa, a hot Roth could have been there to keep it closer at the end of that game. And if Crean is pointing out his passing value as well, he’d probably see some decent minutes off the bench this season.
If I had my druthers, I’d say it’s probably best to get Roth a redshirt season here, and use his shooting prowess down the road when IU is battling to get in the NCAA Tournament. No reason to rush him back now. Though, this decision could muddy up the scholarship situation at some point down the road.
So what say you ITH’ers? Would you want a bump from Matt Roth in the back half of the Big Ten season? Or would you prefer him not to burn a year of eligibility?
January 26th, 2010 at 4:52 pm
If he plays Id say it has more to do with numbers in the future than it does with winning this year.
January 26th, 2010 at 4:59 pm
Well I believe it is a scholarship issue, but we do need him. Not having him against iowa hurt us. We didn't hit a single 3 pointer. I also believe, for his sake, it may be good for him to return. He gets a chance to get some playing time. I really like Matt, but he is a one dimensional player. We could of really used him this year.
January 26th, 2010 at 5:07 pm
IMO IU should bring Matt Roth back this year. Using a redshirt just holds onto another scholly for another year when we could use it to bring in a great recruit. Also, we don't have any consistent 3 pt. threats outside of Hulls and the occasional Dumes. But, this is definetly a tough one. I'm not sure if either way is the answer.
January 26th, 2010 at 5:16 pm
I don't see any need to redshirt him. This team needs a three point shooter, and while Roth does shoot extremely well, that's about all he does. I anticipate that Crean would be able to bring in a far better athlete for the class 2012. From his comments, it appears Crean wants to get that scholarship sooner, rather than later.
January 26th, 2010 at 5:34 pm
IU I am from bluffton ind. have watched your game's for year's thing;s have a way of working out .Finish the season IF NO ONE LIKES IT DON'T WATCH OR LISTEN.
January 26th, 2010 at 5:56 pm
I agree with you-I would rather see him redshirted this year and able to come back full-speed next year, when it will (should) mean more.
January 26th, 2010 at 6:22 pm
Bring him back this year. He will give us one more conference win.
January 26th, 2010 at 6:25 pm
As our talent level increases, its my belief he will pushed further down the bench due to his defensive deficiencies. Creek will be back. Sheehey and Etherington are taller and better athletes that will compete with him for minutes at one of the wings. Olapido is a better athlete and Carlino can handle the rock and shoot. Matt's one dimensional skill set will leave him with a shooting role which he can fill well, but which will naturally limit his minutes. I say let him come help this team, it needs it. Other guys are coming in the future.
January 26th, 2010 at 6:36 pm
Don't redshirt arguement:
-Is Matt Roth going to make us any tougher on defense for the remainder of his IU career? All I think of when I think Roth is him getting posterized in the paint at that Wake Forest game.
Redshirt Arguement:
What do scholly numbers matter when you can't land good recruits anyway? At least he his above 30% from behind the arc occasionally.
January 26th, 2010 at 7:05 pm
If he is ready, I'd bring him back for his sake as well as the team's.
How so? I think he gets a lot of minutes now. That may help him develop more.
January 26th, 2010 at 7:06 pm
Don’t waste a 5th year scholarship on Roth. All he can do is shoot. he can’t get his own shot, he doesn’t play good D doesn’t rebound and is slow. That means he relies on others to get him shots and we’ve seen how well that works out this year. Hulls is a serviceable version of Roth, he handles the ball better but isn’t as good a shooter and has the same flaws.
I should hope 3 years from now IU could use that scholarship for someone better.
I wouldn’t be surprised if he transferred anyway. He would be better off on a very athletic top team that needed him off the bench to launch threes and can hide him on D, or to a mid major.
January 26th, 2010 at 7:06 pm
Don’t waste a 5th year scholarship on Roth. All he can do is shoot. he can’t get his own shot, he doesn’t play good D doesn’t rebound and is slow. That means he relies on others to get him shots and we’ve seen how well that works out this year. Hulls is a serviceable version of Roth, he handles the ball better but isn’t as good a shooter and has the same flaws.
I should hope 3 years from now IU could use that scholarship for someone better.
I wouldn’t be surprised if he transferred anyway. He would be better off on a very athletic top team that needed him off the bench to launch threes and can hide him on D, or to a mid major.
January 26th, 2010 at 7:24 pm
For those of you who haven't seen it. Here is an article from ESPN about Tom Crean.
http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation...
January 26th, 2010 at 7:26 pm
If you bring Roth back this year you gain more game time experience to lead the new recruits for the next two classes. Roth's game time experience, even though it would be limited this year, would be more valuable to the team in the next two years then his one dimensional talent. It is unfortunate that Roth has lost so much time but each player needs as many minutes as possible to gain experience and learn the system. Bring him back.
January 26th, 2010 at 7:26 pm
If you bring Roth back this year you gain more game time experience to lead the new recruits for the next two classes. Roth's game time experience, even though it would be limited this year, would be more valuable to the team in the next two years then his one dimensional talent. It is unfortunate that Roth has lost so much time but each player needs as many minutes as soon as possible to gain experience and learn the system. Bring him back.
January 26th, 2010 at 7:44 pm
yes, Bring him back. If he is ready then we are ready. No need to red shirt him. Get him on the court now and he will be that much farther along next year to help our team. We desperately need his outside shot. There have been a few games this year where a three pointer could have changed momentum when are offense was stagnant.
January 26th, 2010 at 8:08 pm
Crean “has banged his over-caffeinated head against a wall with scrappy but untalented players for almost two years. That's not what he signed up for. Shouldn't Indiana afford Crean the same patience Crean has afforded Indiana?”
He knew pretty well what he was getting and IU fans expect to see more!!!
January 26th, 2010 at 8:43 pm
he needs to come back for the sole purpose of using up his scholarship. We dont want him using up a scholarship for the younger classes(we can get someone better). the best scenario would be him leaving and opening up another scholly for a JUCO player.
January 26th, 2010 at 8:56 pm
I say he plays this year not only because of the scholarship situation but because I bet even Tom Crean is getting pretty sick of watching anemic offensive performances like Sunday's and a shooter can't help!
January 26th, 2010 at 8:56 pm
I say he plays this year not only because of the scholarship situation but because I bet even Tom Crean is getting pretty sick of watching anemic offensive performances like Sunday's and a shooter can't help!
January 26th, 2010 at 8:56 pm
Sorry, meant can't hurt!!!
January 26th, 2010 at 8:56 pm
Sorry, meant can't hurt!!!
January 26th, 2010 at 8:56 pm
Sorry, meant can't hurt!!!
January 26th, 2010 at 9:38 pm
Selfishly, I think you want him back this year…we need more options to score the ball right now. Thinking about Matt's well-being, I don't rush him back unless he is healed up and cleared to play. I think IU should be a place where a student-athlete knows that he'll be taken care of, even if he is injured. We shouldn't treat him poorly just because we want an extra scholly down the road.
January 26th, 2010 at 9:52 pm
Personally, I would like to see Matt back this season. Without Creek we are lacking a go-to 3 point shooter. Plus, a redshirt would leave us with 7 players graduating in 2013. While admittedly this is unlikely to actually happen, it is kind of scary to think about this kind of massive restructuring coming again so soon.
January 26th, 2010 at 9:52 pm
Personally, I would like to see Matt back this season. Without Creek we are lacking a go-to 3 point shooter. Plus, a redshirt would leave us with 7 players graduating in 2013. While admittedly this is unlikely to actually happen, it is kind of scary to think about this kind of massive restructuring coming again so soon.
January 26th, 2010 at 9:52 pm
If he plays Id say it has more to do with numbers in the future than it does with winning this year.
January 26th, 2010 at 9:59 pm
Well I believe it is a scholarship issue, but we do need him. Not having him against iowa hurt us. We didn't hit a single 3 pointer. I also believe, for his sake, it may be good for him to return. He gets a chance to get some playing time. I really like Matt, but he is a one dimensional player. We could of really used him this year.
January 26th, 2010 at 10:07 pm
IMO IU should bring Matt Roth back this year. Using a redshirt just holds onto another scholly for another year when we could use it to bring in a great recruit. Also, we don't have any consistent 3 pt. threats outside of Hulls and the occasional Dumes. But, this is definetly a tough one. I'm not sure if either way is the answer.
January 26th, 2010 at 10:09 pm
redshirt. period.
January 26th, 2010 at 10:16 pm
I don't see any need to redshirt him. This team needs a three point shooter, and while Roth does shoot extremely well, that's about all he does. I anticipate that Crean would be able to bring in a far better athlete for the class 2012. From his comments, it appears Crean wants to get that scholarship sooner, rather than later.
January 26th, 2010 at 10:21 pm
“That's not what he signed up for”. Ha! I've read Eamonn's writing and think he's terrific, but that's terrible wording. Crean knew exactly what he was getting himself into, which is why he has preached patience since day one. I for one don't think we should be talking about his “time being up” by any stretch of the imagination, even next season, but to say he didn't sign up for a team with untalented players is silly. Crean is not “affording” Indiana any patience; that makes it sound as if he's waiting for something from IU. The reality is, it's his program now. And yes, we'll be patient with him. Not only because it's our only choice, but because he can do the job.
January 26th, 2010 at 10:28 pm
I say bring back, assuming he is fully ready to go and healthy. Beyond the scholarship issue, with Creek out this team could really use him. We've had games where he could make a difference. He could have made a difference Sunday. If IU just had a couple threes go down during the course of that game, it might have ended much different.
January 26th, 2010 at 10:34 pm
IU I am from bluffton ind. have watched your game's for year's thing;s have a way of working out .Finish the season IF NO ONE LIKES IT DON'T WATCH OR LISTEN.
January 26th, 2010 at 10:53 pm
If he can play and is in game shape then bring him back now. Having Matt another three years isn't going to make much difference to the team, and yes I know that's harsh. Seems like a very good kid but he's not at the level this program needs even for next year. His playing time will be very limited even if he's healthy. Just move him on down the road to graduation. Sorry Matt.
January 26th, 2010 at 10:56 pm
I agree with you-I would rather see him redshirted this year and able to come back full-speed next year, when it will (should) mean more.
January 26th, 2010 at 11:16 pm
I don't know if that's completely accurate. I don't think he knew he was only going to have Taber coming back. I think he envisioned at least 3-4 of the scholarship guys still being here, he certainly expected to have Holman back. I'm not saying I disagreed with the housecleaning, just saying I think Crean came in thinking there would be more back than just Taber and Fink.
January 26th, 2010 at 11:22 pm
Bring him back this year. He will give us one more conference win.
January 26th, 2010 at 11:25 pm
As our talent level increases, its my belief he will pushed further down the bench due to his defensive deficiencies. Creek will be back. Sheehey and Etherington are taller and better athletes that will compete with him for minutes at one of the wings. Olapido is a better athlete and Carlino can handle the rock and shoot. Matt's one dimensional skill set will leave him with a shooting role which he can fill well, but which will naturally limit his minutes. I say let him come help this team, it needs it. Other guys are coming in the future.
January 26th, 2010 at 11:26 pm
With all due respect to Eamonn, he is taking that a bit out of proportion. A lot of people here have a short fuse, but start over? Really? I know he has to get attention to his articles somehow but come on man!
January 26th, 2010 at 11:36 pm
Don't redshirt arguement:
-Is Matt Roth going to make us any tougher on defense for the remainder of his IU career? All I think of when I think Roth is him getting posterized in the paint at that Wake Forest game.
Redshirt Arguement:
What do scholly numbers matter when you can't land good recruits anyway? At least he his above 30% from behind the arc occasionally.
January 27th, 2010 at 12:05 am
If he is ready, I'd bring him back for his sake as well as the team's.
How so? I think he gets a lot of minutes now. That may help him develop more.
January 27th, 2010 at 12:06 am
Don’t waste a 5th year scholarship on Roth. All he can do is shoot. he can’t get his own shot, he doesn’t play good D doesn’t rebound and is slow. That means he relies on others to get him shots and we’ve seen how well that works out this year. Hulls is a serviceable version of Roth, he handles the ball better but isn’t as good a shooter and has the same flaws.
I should hope 3 years from now IU could use that scholarship for someone better.
I wouldn’t be surprised if he transferred anyway. He would be better off on a very athletic top team that needed him off the bench to launch threes and can hide him on D, or to a mid major.
January 27th, 2010 at 12:24 am
For those of you who haven't seen it. Here is an article from ESPN about Tom Crean.
http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation...
January 27th, 2010 at 12:26 am
If you bring Roth back this year you gain more game time experience to lead the new recruits for the next two classes. Roth's game time experience, even though it would be limited this year, would be more valuable to the team in the next two years then his one dimensional talent. It is unfortunate that Roth has lost so much time but each player needs as many minutes as possible to gain experience and learn the system. Bring him back.
January 27th, 2010 at 1:08 am
Crean “has banged his over-caffeinated head against a wall with scrappy but untalented players for almost two years. That's not what he signed up for. Shouldn't Indiana afford Crean the same patience Crean has afforded Indiana?”
He knew pretty well what he was getting and IU fans expect to see more!!!
January 27th, 2010 at 1:29 am
I think Roth is a better player than most here are saying. Coach highlighted his passing ability. I looked at his stats from last year and he only had 16 turnovers in 651 minutes. In contrast Dumes had 85 in 767 minutes. VJII had 99 in 799. So he doesn't turn the ball over.
He had 19 steals 41 boards and we all know how he can light it up (the team lead in steals was 28).
I think we could really use him but I would want input from the kid for sure before deciding as his coach. I think we will use him throughout his career and will be a fan favorite at some point (Kyle Hornsby?).
January 27th, 2010 at 1:36 am
This is terrible. CTC will not treat him like that. Not a chance he has as little class as you. Besides Roth is a good player that I think any team would gladly take when healthy. He doesn't turn the ball over, blocks out, shoots lights out, has good hands. Who do we have starting that you can say that about?
January 27th, 2010 at 1:43 am
he needs to come back for the sole purpose of using up his scholarship. We dont want him using up a scholarship for the younger classes(we can get someone better). the best scenario would be him leaving and opening up another scholly for a JUCO player.
January 27th, 2010 at 1:56 am
I say he plays this year not only because of the scholarship situation but because I bet even Tom Crean is getting pretty sick of watching anemic offensive performances like Sunday's and a shooter can't help!
January 27th, 2010 at 1:56 am
Sorry, meant can't hurt!!!
January 27th, 2010 at 2:12 am
Bring him back now Roth not the kind of talent you want to take up another year of scholarship. But i hear he is one great kid
January 27th, 2010 at 2:16 am
They should absolutely not bring him back because they don't have the talent this year to make the ncaa tournament or even the NIT. So I think that they should redshirt him.
January 27th, 2010 at 2:38 am
Selfishly, I think you want him back this year…we need more options to score the ball right now. Thinking about Matt's well-being, I don't rush him back unless he is healed up and cleared to play. I think IU should be a place where a student-athlete knows that he'll be taken care of, even if he is injured. We shouldn't treat him poorly just because we want an extra scholly down the road.
January 27th, 2010 at 3:09 am
redshirt. period.
January 27th, 2010 at 3:21 am
“That's not what he signed up for”. Ha! I've read Eamonn's writing and think he's terrific, but that's terrible wording. Crean knew exactly what he was getting himself into, which is why he has preached patience since day one. I for one don't think we should be talking about his “time being up” by any stretch of the imagination, even next season, but to say he didn't sign up for a team with untalented players is silly. Crean is not “affording” Indiana any patience; that makes it sound as if he's waiting for something from IU. The reality is, it's his program now. And yes, we'll be patient with him. Not only because it's our only choice, but because he can do it.
January 27th, 2010 at 3:28 am
I say bring back, assuming he is fully ready to go and healthy. Beyond the scholarship issue, with Creek out this team could really use him. We've had games where he could make a difference. He could have made a difference Sunday. If IU just had a couple threes go down during the course of that game, it might have ended much different.
January 27th, 2010 at 3:53 am
If he can play and is in game shape then bring him back now. Having Matt another three years isn't going to make much difference to the team, and yes I know that's harsh. Seems like a very good kid but he's not at the level this program needs even for next year. His playing time will be very limited even if he's healthy. Just move him on down the road to graduation. Sorry Matt.
January 27th, 2010 at 3:54 am
Sit him Look at the players who have come back too early and gotten reinjured.
January 27th, 2010 at 4:16 am
I don't know if that's completely accurate. I don't think he knew he was only going to have Taber coming back. I think he envisioned at least 3-4 of the scholarship guys still being here, he certainly expected to have Holman back. I'm not saying I disagreed with the housecleaning, just saying I think Crean came in thinking there would be more back than just Taber and Fink.
January 27th, 2010 at 4:26 am
With all due respect to Eamonn, he is taking that a bit out of proportion. A lot of people here have a short fuse, but start over? Really? I know he has to get attention to his articles somehow but come on man!
January 27th, 2010 at 6:29 am
I think Roth is a better player than most here are saying. Coach highlighted his passing ability. I looked at his stats from last year and he only had 16 turnovers in 651 minutes. In contrast Dumes had 85 in 767 minutes. VJII had 99 in 799. So he doesn't turn the ball over.
He had 19 steals 41 boards and we all know how he can light it up (the team lead in steals was 28).
I think we could really use him but I would want input from the kid for sure before deciding as his coach. I think we will use him throughout his career and will be a fan favorite at some point (Kyle Hornsby?).
January 27th, 2010 at 6:36 am
This is terrible. CTC will not treat him like that. Not a chance he has as little class as you. Besides Roth is a good player that I think any team would gladly take when healthy. He doesn't turn the ball over, blocks out, shoots lights out, has good hands. Who do we have starting that you can say that about?
January 27th, 2010 at 7:12 am
Bring him back now Roth not the kind of talent you want to take up another year of scholarship. But i hear he is one great kid
January 27th, 2010 at 7:58 am
Our fans are starving for improvement in this program. How else can you describe 30 blog posts discussing Matt Roth's come back?
Man we are low but at least UK lost last night which makes me feel a little better.
January 27th, 2010 at 8:54 am
Sit him Look at the players who have come back too early and gotten reinjured.
January 27th, 2010 at 9:16 am
I do not see how we can't bring him back this year, especially with the better “talent” coming in the next couple years (fingers crossed). We lack a consistent three point threat right now, and that cannot be underestimated (i.e. the Iowa debauchle). A consistent three-point threat will stretch the defenses we face and hopefully open up Watford's game (if we can get the Watford from the Minnesota/Penn State games).
We are down on the team now because of a REALLY CRAPPY game against a REALLY CRAPPY Iowa team. But this is all part and parcel of rebuilding a program. A bad as we are this year, we are light-years ahead of last year. Imagine where we can be next year!
PREDICTION: If Roth comes back, we will win 3 more conference games and we might even finish in the middle of the Big Ten.
January 27th, 2010 at 10:04 am
Sad thing about this situation? This is the year we needed him probably more than we ever will. With the season almost done, and Roth MAYBE getting up to speed by the Big Ten tournament, it doesn't sound logical to bring him back to salvage what? This season? This season ain't good people.
Unless……you are concerned about the redshirt eating that scholly which I understand.
Let's consider for a moment that Roth, along with all 6 of our freshmen, are on the squad in 2012. Oladipo and Sheehey are juniors (schollys #8 and #9) Carlino and Etherington are sophomores (scholly's #10 and #11). And that doesn't include anyone we add to those two classes. As is we have two scholly's to offer over the next two years barring no NBA moves or transfers. Yikes! They better be two bad _ss freshmen (and big).
January 27th, 2010 at 10:55 am
I'm in the same boat. I'd like to see him get back for some outside shooting and for him to get more game experience, but I keep thinking back to when Pat Graham (showing my age, I know) came back mid-season from a foot injury and then promptly broke another bone in the same foot. Long term, I'd rather him make sure his foot is 100% healed and not have to deal with debilitating issues later in life. Plus, I'd prefer to think of IU as a place where the players are taken care of and not just thrown onto the floor in order to win games *cough*Kentucky*cough*
January 27th, 2010 at 11:03 am
exactly…. waaaaaaa waaaaaaa waaaaaaaaa he got a 10yr 23mil contract. the guy is set for life and his kids are set for life.
it wasn't a great article. i don't know who wrote the article first but it was basically the same as the article on fanhouse (which apparently was written by a MLB/NFL blogger)
January 27th, 2010 at 11:14 am
Agreed. I really think Crean is going to have to ask players to leave after this year. It may not be right or sound fair but if IU is going to get back to the top then we need alot more than 2 scholarship athletes over the next two years. The team is filled with a lot of role players or good bench players and 2 possible guys you can build the team around (Watford/Creek). Creek may or may not be the same, and will probably take a year to get back.
I'd tell Bawa and Roth you'd be better off leaving the program. Bawa is useless, and Hulls isn't as good a shooter as Roth but is good enough
January 27th, 2010 at 11:42 am
If bringing Matt back would give us a chance at a winning season and a post season tourney, I say bring him back. I think now we would waste a year. He undoubtly will be stronger in years 2 3 and 4 when we have more maturity and experience. Matt will really enhance our sucess in those years. Get him a red shirt.
January 27th, 2010 at 11:46 am
He definitely needs to come back this year. Am I the only one that feels this way when I say that Matt Roth just isn't good enough to be on a team expected to compete for Big Ten Championships? I realize he dropped 9 3 pointers against Ohio State last year, but his release is still slow, he's un-athletic, and Jordan Hulls can shoot just as well as him with the ability to handle the ball. I think that this year he will be beneficial to our team, but next year when Creek comes back and Hulls improves, he will be buried on the depth chart. I see him playing only 5-7 minutes a game past this year, and in my opinion, that just isn't worth a scholarship.
January 27th, 2010 at 11:51 am
I am forced to agree, although I don't think it has to be this year. If everyone on the current roster stays we still have an open schollie for next year (see: http://www.insidethehall.com/scholarship-numbers ). But If everyone stays for two years we could not add anymore players through 2011-20012.
This is not going to happen. For 2010 -2011 we might get Selby, but I doubt it. But another player for next fall is not out of the question. Maybe a transfer or a JUCO.
Then for fall 2011 there is J Davis, Zeller, Dawsen, Plumlee, et al. We are not going to pass on this class for the sake of some of the players on this current roster, imo.
IMO there are at least 3 players on this team that will not be back for the 2011-2012 season. How we get there, I don't know. The loses may include a popular player or two. It will probably be controversial.
January 27th, 2010 at 12:02 pm
I really don't know what the best option is. I've tried to come to a clear cut decision on this one and it's not easy.
I have to say that redshirting is the wisest option. Everyone screams “scholarship,” but so be it. I don't think it'll be the issue some think.
Most importantly, is he really going to “have his legs under him” enough to contribute much at all, even if he is healthy? I mean you can't figure he's in the best basketball shape at the moment. How many minutes will he be able to provide?
I'd rather redshirt him and see if he can't help us down the road as a nice 3 point shooting role player.
I wonder what Matt thinks about all of this?
On a side note, does anyone think we hurt Roth's feelings by not having the same pouring out of emotion for him as we had for Creek? He might not be the star Creek is, but man, I feel bad for the kid just the same. He's a Hoosier, just like Creek. The big difference and bright side for Roth is that he can take advantage of a redshirt.
January 27th, 2010 at 12:14 pm
As we can all see from many of the posts on this site, some people are certainly a bit impatient. And that's perfectly ok.
However, my belief is that you have to give Crean a chance to build this team his way. In football, the talk is always about giving a coach four or five years to see what HIS recruits can really do given time and experience. I think the same has to be said for Crean.
Other people have said it, but you really have to count this year as year number one. See what he can do with Watford, Creek, Elston, etc. as seniors. I'd hope it happens when they're juniors, but we have to give him a full four years with his first true recruiting class.
Despite the hunger for a quick turnaround, it might take four or five years for us to finally see a consistent product on the court. We'll keep seeing the flashes (Pitt, Minnesota, Michigan, Penn State), but those are exceptions at this point, rather than the rule. I know we all wish it was the other way around, but unfortunately, it's not.
January 27th, 2010 at 12:39 pm
I agree. If Creek was healthy, then I think it would be a scholarship question as whether he comes back or not. With Creek out, we flat out need bodies and shooters, and Roth fits this need. Look at the Fanhouse article, fans are already getting impatient, so if Crean can bring back a kid that could potentially help him win even 1 extra game, then he has to do it.
I'm not expecting this, but what if the difference between an NIT berth and no postseason is the difference between 13 and 14 wins? What if a few Matt Roth threes is the difference in one of those wins? He has to bring Roth back if he's healthy.
January 27th, 2010 at 12:54 pm
I'm not ready to give up on Bawa yet Cooper. You can't teach that kind of length. Even if he only is a two year contributor.
I dunno Dave, maybe you're right. Perhaps losing all of these guys is inevitable given the circumstances. But who do you lose? Roth, Capo, Bawa, one of the new kids? Because I just don't see Hulls, Elston, Mo and CW going anywhere.
Personally I like our six FR and VIII. I think as Sr/Jrs they can really be good (if we run an offense) sorry I know I am a terrible person.
Shall I add to your frustration? Over the first 18 games of the 2008-2009 season Tom Pritchard averaged 12.3 ppg and 7.2 rpg. He steadily declined in the second half and now is a paltry 4 and 4. OUCH!
Who is our future big man to help these current kids get to the next level? TP went for 16 and 11 @ Ohio State last year. Is it too early for a cocktail? I just got depressed.
January 27th, 2010 at 12:58 pm
Our fans are starving for improvement in this program. How else can you describe 30 blog posts discussing Matt Roth's come back?
Man we are low but at least UK lost last night which makes me feel a little better.
January 27th, 2010 at 1:11 pm
What you say is why I don't think anything needs to happen for 2010-2011. Let the kids on the current team keep working and developing. Use the slot we do have for a really great guard or a big man that can at least play. Then let's see where we stand. But I just can't believe that Carlino and Etherington are going to be it for 2011-2012.
January 27th, 2010 at 1:46 pm
My initial thought was “of course he should redshirt” to give him a complete year. Then I started reading everyone else's comments regarding a freed-up scholarship in three years and I started to second-guess myself. Now that I've stopped and thought it over, I would leave it up to the kid. Do you want to come back this season and see how it goes or do you want a full off-season to rehab in hopes of coming back strong knowing full-well that other, potentially better, players are being recruited who may (likely will) take away playing time.
January 27th, 2010 at 2:10 pm
You could give him another year since he is a freshman, though the fact is if you look at most big men if they aren't dominate or at least good to start they never end up being so. Not many projects work out.
If we aren't getting a top guy for next year, bag the scholarship. IU doesn't need another role player.
What Crean really has to do is decide if they can recruit a player or players that will be better than who they'd ask to leave. The other way to look at it is if everyone stays who is going to spend most of their time on the bench? Thus far, the clear answer is Roth and someone from the Bawa, Capo, TP, Elston group. Clearly, there is some risk to it but to get to the next level scholarships are going to have to open up for better players.
Not to mention, having 10 players leave the program within two years (soph/fresh) could absolutely kill the program again.
January 27th, 2010 at 2:16 pm
I do not see how we can't bring him back this year, especially with the better “talent” coming in the next couple years (fingers crossed). We lack a consistent three point threat right now, and that cannot be underestimated (i.e. the Iowa debauchle). A consistent three-point threat will stretch the defenses we face and hopefully open up Watford's game (if we can get the Watford from the Minnesota/Penn State games).
We are down on the team now because of a REALLY CRAPPY game against a REALLY CRAPPY Iowa team. But this is all part and parcel of rebuilding a program. A bad as we are this year, we are light-years ahead of last year. Imagine where we can be next year!
PREDICTION: If Roth comes back, we will win 3 more conference games and we might even finish in the middle of the Big Ten.
January 27th, 2010 at 3:04 pm
Sad thing about this situation? This is the year we needed him probably more than we ever will. With the season almost done, and Roth MAYBE getting up to speed by the Big Ten tournament, it doesn't sound logical to bring him back to salvage what? This season? This season ain't good people.
Unless……you are concerned about the redshirt eating that scholly which I understand.
Let's consider for a moment that Roth, along with all 6 of our freshmen, are on the squad in 2012. Oladipo and Sheehey are juniors (schollys #8 and #9) Carlino and Etherington are sophomores (scholly's #10 and #11). And that doesn't include anyone we add to those two classes. As is we have two scholly's to offer over the next two years barring no NBA moves or transfers. Yikes! They better be two bad _ss freshmen (and big).
January 27th, 2010 at 3:55 pm
I'm in the same boat. I'd like to see him get back for some outside shooting and for him to get more game experience, but I keep thinking back to when Pat Graham (showing my age, I know) came back mid-season from a foot injury and then promptly broke another bone in the same foot. Long term, I'd rather him make sure his foot is 100% healed and not have to deal with debilitating issues later in life. Plus, I'd prefer to think of IU as a place where the players are taken care of and not just thrown onto the floor in order to win games *cough*Kentucky*cough*
January 27th, 2010 at 4:03 pm
exactly…. waaaaaaa waaaaaaa waaaaaaaaa he got a 10yr 23mil contract. the guy is set for life and his kids are set for life.
it wasn't a great article. i don't know who wrote the article first but it was basically the same as the article on fanhouse (which apparently was written by a MLB/NFL blogger)
January 27th, 2010 at 4:14 pm
Agreed. I really think Crean is going to have to ask players to leave after this year. It may not be right or sound fair but if IU is going to get back to the top then we need alot more than 2 scholarship athletes over the next two years. The team is filled with a lot of role players or good bench players and 2 possible guys you can build the team around (Watford/Creek). Creek may or may not be the same, and will probably take a year to get back.
I'd tell Bawa and Roth you'd be better off leaving the program. Bawa is useless, and Hulls isn't as good a shooter as Roth but is good enough
January 27th, 2010 at 4:42 pm
If bringing Matt back would give us a chance at a winning season and a post season tourney, I say bring him back. I think now we would waste a year. He undoubtly will be stronger in years 2 3 and 4 when we have more maturity and experience. Matt will really enhance our sucess in those years. Get him a red shirt.
January 27th, 2010 at 4:46 pm
He definitely needs to come back this year. Am I the only one that feels this way when I say that Matt Roth just isn't good enough to be on a team expected to compete for Big Ten Championships? I realize he dropped 9 3 pointers against Ohio State last year, but his release is still slow, he's un-athletic, and Jordan Hulls can shoot just as well as him with the ability to handle the ball. I think that this year he will be beneficial to our team, but next year when Creek comes back and Hulls improves, he will be buried on the depth chart. I see him playing only 5-7 minutes a game past this year, and in my opinion, that just isn't worth a scholarship.
January 27th, 2010 at 4:51 pm
I am forced to agree, although I don't think it has to be this year. If everyone on the current roster stays we still have an open schollie for next year (see: http://www.insidethehall.com/scholarship-numbers ). But If everyone stays for two years we could not add anymore players through 2011-20012.
This is not going to happen. For 2010 -2011 we might get Selby, but I doubt it. But another player for next fall is not out of the question. Maybe a transfer or a JUCO.
Then for fall 2011 there is J Davis, Zeller, Dawsen, Plumlee, et al. We are not going to pass on this class for the sake of some of the players on this current roster, imo.
IMO there are at least 3 players on this team that will not be back for the 2011-2012 season. How we get there, I don't know. The loses may include a popular player or two. It will probably be controversial.
January 27th, 2010 at 5:02 pm
I really don't know what the best option is. I've tried to come to a clear cut decision on this one and it's not easy.
I have to say that redshirting is the wisest option. Everyone screams “scholarship,” but so be it. I don't think it'll be the issue some think.
Most importantly, is he really going to “have his legs under him” enough to contribute much at all, even if he is healthy? I mean you can't figure he's in the best basketball shape at the moment. How many minutes will he be able to provide?
I'd rather redshirt him and see if he can't help us down the road as a nice 3 point shooting role player.
I wonder what Matt thinks about all of this?
On a side note, does anyone think we hurt Roth's feelings by not having the same pouring out of emotion for him as we had for Creek? He might not be the star Creek is, but man, I feel bad for the kid just the same. He's a Hoosier, just like Creek. The big difference and bright side for Roth is that he can take advantage of a redshirt.
January 27th, 2010 at 5:14 pm
As we can all see from many of the posts on this site, some people are certainly a bit impatient. And that's perfectly ok.
However, my belief is that you have to give Crean a chance to build this team his way. In football, the talk is always about giving a coach four or five years to see what HIS recruits can really do given time and experience. I think the same has to be said for Crean.
Other people have said it, but you really have to count this year as year number one. See what he can do with Watford, Creek, Elston, etc. as seniors.
Despite the hunger for a quick turnaround, it might take four or five years for us to finally see a consistent product on the court. We'll keep seeing the flashes (Pitt, Minnesota, Michigan, Penn State), but for those are exceptions at this point, rather than the rule. I know we all wish it was the other way around, but unfortunately, it's not.
January 27th, 2010 at 5:29 pm
Good point. If he doesn't come back this year, he will not play any meaningful minutes for us next year. The influx at guard will completely bury him. Heck, he wasn't even playing much this year and the depth wasn't near what it will be next year. I like Matt Roth, except for when he almost hit me in his car when I was walking to class, but that's beside the point. (Although I'm still pretty steamed about that!) He can shoot lights out when he's on, but he doesn't play defense well and he can't create off the dribble. You never like to speculate on things like this, but he is one of the largest contenders for a transfer after his meeting with CTC, IMHO
January 27th, 2010 at 5:39 pm
I agree. If Creek was healthy, then I think it would be a scholarship question as whether he comes back or not. With Creek out, we flat out need bodies and shooters, and Roth fits this need. Look at the Fanhouse article, fans are already getting impatient, so if Crean can bring back a kid that could potentially help him win even 1 extra game, then he has to do it.
I'm not expecting this, but what if the difference between an NIT berth and no postseason is the difference between 13 and 14 wins? What if a few Matt Roth threes is the difference in one of those wins? He has to bring Roth back if he's healthy.
January 27th, 2010 at 5:54 pm
I'm not ready to give up on Bawa yet Cooper. You can't teach that kind of length. Even if he only is a two year contributor.
I dunno Dave, maybe you're right. Perhaps losing all of these guys is inevitable given the circumstances. But who do you lose? Roth, Capo, Bawa, one of the new kids? Because I just don't see Hulls, Elston, Mo and CW going anywhere.
Personally I like our six FR and VIII. I think as Sr/Jrs they can really be good (if we run an offense) sorry I know I am a terrible person.
Shall I add to your frustration? Over the first 18 games of the 2008-2009 season Tom Pritchard averaged 12.3 ppg and 7.2 rpg. He steadily declined in the second half and now is a paltry 4 and 4. OUCH!
Who is our future big man to help these current kids get to the next level? TP went for 16 and 11 @ Ohio State last year. Is it too early for a cocktail? I just got depressed.
January 27th, 2010 at 6:04 pm
I was not a Roth fan when he was recruited by Sampson. Then I talked to Roth in PR after his injury. I have also re watched my games early this year. IMO he is bigger, stronger and better than any of us think and showed mid range game and passign this year for the brief period we saw him. He CAN play good defense , better than Jones/Hulls/Creek.
I want him back when HE thinks he is ready and I predict he will contribute both on and off the court.
January 27th, 2010 at 6:11 pm
What you say is why I don't think anything needs to happen for 2010-2011. Let the kids on the current team keep working and developing. Use the slot we do have for a really great guard or a big man that can at least play. Then let's see where we stand. But I just can't believe that Carlino and Etherington are going to be it for 2011-2012.
January 27th, 2010 at 6:46 pm
My initial thought was “of course he should redshirt” to give him a complete year. Then I started reading everyone else's comments regarding a freed-up scholarship in three years and I started to second-guess myself. Now that I've stopped and thought it over, I would leave it up to the kid. Do you want to come back this season and see how it goes or do you want a full off-season to rehab in hopes of coming back strong knowing full-well that other, potentially better, players are being recruited who may (likely will) take away playing time.
January 27th, 2010 at 7:10 pm
You could give him another year since he is a freshman. If Capo continues to improve tell TP and Roth to leave. They would both probably be really good on a mid major.
What Crean really has to do is decide if they can recruit a player or players that will be better than who they'd ask to leave. The other way to look at it is if everyone stays who is going to spend most of their time on the bench. Thus far, the clear answer is Roth and someone from the Bawa, Capo, TP, Elston group. Clearly, there is some risk to it but to get to the next level scholarships are going to have to open up for better players.
January 27th, 2010 at 8:19 pm
My preference is to bring him back. And nothing to do with scholarship situation, because I think that's a future issue and you still play to win now. You can't play for 2012 or 2013, there's plenty of things that will inevitably shake out between then and now.
IF Roth is healthy enough to play, get him back, let him develop in the system and with current players. Right now, there's a lot of frustration going around. Maybe his shooting helps us pick up a couple more wins and gives some momentum into the off-season and into recruiting. If they win 5 conference games this year, that's a vast improvement and I believe it would have more people (and recuits) buying in to a quicker turn around. Also, if he's ready and Crean decides to play for next year, that sets a bad tone on the remaining games. Roth will likely be replaceable in 2 years, but I think he provides another scoring option this year that isn't as replaceable.
January 27th, 2010 at 9:32 pm
Yeah, we didn't get to see a lot of him this year, but he looked improved just by watching him at Hoosier Hysteria. Looked like he had worked on a quicker release and like he had more confidence. I see value there, even with what we think we'll have in the future.
January 27th, 2010 at 10:29 pm
Good point. If he doesn't come back this year, he will not play any meaningful minutes for us next year. The influx at guard will completely bury him. Heck, he wasn't even playing much this year and the depth wasn't near what it will be next year. I like Matt Roth, except for when he almost hit me in his car when I was walking to class, but that's beside the point. (Although I'm still pretty steamed about that!) He can shoot lights out when he's on, but he doesn't play defense well and he can't create off the dribble. You never like to speculate on things like this, but he is one of the largest contenders for a transfer after his meeting with CTC, IMHO
January 27th, 2010 at 11:04 pm
I was not a Roth fan when he was recruited by Sampson. Then I talked to Roth in PR after his injury. I have also re watched my games early this year. IMO he is bigger, stronger and better than any of us think and showed mid range game and passign this year for the brief period we saw him. He CAN play good defense , better than Jones/Hulls/Creek.
I want him back when HE thinks he is ready and I predict he will contribute both on and off the court.
January 28th, 2010 at 2:32 am
Yeah, we didn't get to see a lot of him this year, but he looked improved just by watching him at Hoosier Hysteria. Looked like he had worked on a quicker release and like he had more confidence. I see value there, even with what we think we'll have in the future.
January 28th, 2010 at 8:51 am
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January 28th, 2010 at 3:56 pm
bring him back.
I think Matt will help this team in alot of ways, now and in the future. I can see him getting significant playing time for the rest of his career. He's vocal when on the floor and Lord knows we need some leadership. Very good bball IQ, head in the game at all times even on the bench with a boot on his leg. Deadly 3 point shooter and has to be accounted for at all times if your the opposing team. If it's up to him I would bet we see him this year. He knows his team needs his help and I believe he will have the confidence to bring it. Good luck Matt, however the out come.
Go Hoosiers…
January 28th, 2010 at 5:39 pm
It's not like the kid is the next Calbert Cheaney, so it's not a big deal that one year is only half a season instead of a full season. They need a lift! Bring him back!
January 28th, 2010 at 8:56 pm
bring him back.
I think Matt will help this team in alot of ways, now and in the future. I can see him getting significant playing time for the rest of his career. He's vocal when on the floor and Lord knows we need some leadership. Very good bball IQ, head in the game at all times even on the bench with a boot on his leg. Deadly 3 point shooter and has to be accounted for at all times if your the opposing team. If it's up to him I would bet we see him this year. He knows his team needs his help and I believe he will have the confidence to bring it. Good luck Matt, however the out come.
Go Hoosiers…
January 28th, 2010 at 10:39 pm
It's not like the kid is the next Calbert Cheaney, so it's not a big deal that one year is only half a season instead of a full season. They need a lift! Bring him back!
January 29th, 2010 at 11:18 am
Roth needs to come back they need the scholarship he probably wont be 100% but they have to bring him back! He also will provide another weapon ..thats if rivers or verdelle will ever reverse the ball.
January 29th, 2010 at 4:18 pm
Roth needs to come back they need the scholarship he probably wont be 100% but they have to bring him back! He also will provide another weapon ..thats if rivers or verdelle will ever reverse the ball.