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The Morning After: Michigan State

by Eamonn Brennan in Morning After | March 3rd, 2008

Drew NeitzelThere are two ways to view yesterday’s debacle at Michigan State, and both depend on interpretation.

The first interpretation relies on the notion that IU has some hand in everything that happens to them on the basketball court. As a rule, this is true, but there are exceptions — a team gets inconceivably hot, for example. Which is what happened Sunday. The second interpretation is that, for at least one day, Michigan State became an unbeatable, impossible foe, caught in a shooting flurry that took off in the first minute and lasted until the 40th. This requires the idea that no matter what IU team showed up yesterday, even one performing at the 99th percentile of the Hoosiers’ ability, Michigan State would have trounced them.

As antithetical as that idea is, it was hard to watch yesterday and think it wasn’t true. Observe:

Both teams took the same number of shots, but look at the outcome: Michigan State made 37 while IU made 27. Michigan State shot a 71.3 effective field goal percentage, which is insane for anyone, let alone for a team that averages 53 percent a game. IU shot 50 percent. On 70 possessions, MSU scored 104 points, a rate of 1.5 points per possession. The Hoosiers scored 1.1. By all offensive measures, IU performed to its season averages. Michigan State performed out of this effing world. What, exactly, can be done about that?

– Better defense would be a good start, of course. Something to consider here is that Dan Dakich has said he’s leaving the offense alone, but plans on tinkering with the defense. No amount of “tinkering” is going to be responsible for giving up 1.5 ppp, but at the same time IU seemed to be peaking defensively a few weeks ago. If the last few games are any indication — especially that shootout with, of all teams, Northwestern — the defense is now regressing.

Even against a really hot shooting team, the defense was exposed yesterday. Transition buckets came way too easily. Dunks were too frequent. Pick and rolls were defended so unsoundly, I was reminded of the team’s first few games this season. Michigan State outran IU, out schemed them, and made the Hoosiers’ defense look as bad as it has all year. Let’s hope the defensive ugliness is an aberration, and not the rule under Dakich. Because 1.5 ppp against is the fastest possible way to get sent home in March.

– Still, it feels like there isn’t much to write about this game, because it was an aberration. It was. It had to be. Think about it: After the end of the first half, Michigan State was on pace for 120 points. 120! In a 40 minute basketball game. To over analyze this, or proclaim this team dead, would be to ignore just how ridiculous yesterday was. If it happens again, fine. Call the season. But in the meantime, the wise approach here is to laugh this game off, suck up the likelihood that the Big Ten crown isn’t headed our way (and really, who cares that much about winning the Big Ten?), and refocus for March. One torrential Michigan State performance, no matter how off the charts, doesn’t automatically spell doom. Not yet, anyway.

  • I will re-iterate my comments of yesterday. This is a team that I would love to see again because they played out of their brains yesterday and are nowhere near as good as they played yesterday. MSU has been wildly inconsistent all-year long but this could very well be the turning point of the season for this team. They could band together and rebound from this in a big way or become a team of malcontents and throw in the towel for the rest of the season. And while we're on the topic of malcontents, is there anyway that we can send the terrible trio of Ellis, Crawford and Thomas on their way? These are guys that have proved NOTHING at this level yet have their air of entitlement and arrogance about them that I don't understand.

    patrickdonohue.freedomblogging.com
  • Crawford has actually been a pretty good player for a freshman. If he gets the right discipline, he's an all-league player in the coming seasons. The other two, I can agree with to an extent. Ellis has been playing street ball since Sampson left and Thomas struggles against good competition.
  • HoosierSmitty
    Other than the sequence where Crawford let Neitzel get open for a 3, then jacked up a wild three of his own, bricked a dunk, and then watched a Spartan player cruise past him for a layup all in the span of two minutes....we haven't seen Crawford as TUO much lately...he's been a better player. He can hit big shots, has a midrange game, and has some sickening offensive moves. I hope IU continues to have a chance to work with him in the years to come.
  • I'll agree with you on this.

    But what worries me is that he didn't seem to care that we were getting trounced, and didn't want to be any part of making it better. I might need to take a shoe off to count the number of times he was lackluster on defense yesterday.

    I like players who take things personally. TUO doesn't seem to be one of these guys. Love his potential, love his skill, love him when he's on. But I also love guys with heart.
  • ALH_00
    Ellis really has been a solid contributor all year. He may be the one guy on the team (besides DJ and Armon) who understands his role. "Send him on his way"?

    Crawford is a (potential) stud. Surely the coaching staff recognizes his tendancy to fall asleep out there, and that problem should be addressed. But absent mental lapses, he can fill the bucket (just can't hardly dunk).

    Thomas had a great game against MSU in Bloomington with DJ out. He has contributed to this team.

    I understand some frustration, especially after a loss like that, but getting rid of these guys would be a huge mistake. How about coaching them? The "handle with care" tag that this team has had the last couple weeks needs to be removed. DD should focus on areas where this team can still vastly improve...all stemming from discipline and intensity.
  • This team's best defense is zone defense.

    Zone defense relies on all 5 teammates getting back down the court.

    What a paradox.
  • kelin
    I fault KS for the lack of development for MANY of these guys. Including the 3 you mentioned..........
  • Timmy
    Dear Einstein,

    I don't need to read your egg-head post to know the reason we lost. Here are the simple equations: IU + KS = W and IU - KS = ASS WHOOPIN'

    class is over.
  • And the award for worst commenter of the year goes to ... Timmy! Congratulations, Timmy! Your worthless comments have become a fixture of the site, in a really bad way! Keep up the good work!
  • He's in breach of an agreement we made. I distinctly remember him saying he'd go away if we got rid of Sampson.
  • HoosierSmitty
    Then he tried to weasel out of it by saying that "technically I only said I would leave if Sampson was fired." ....
  • Timmy
    #1 Sampson left.

    #2 this place wouldn't be the same without me. Y'all need me here!
  • you're right timmy. in fact, if KS was on the sidelines, IU would've shot 81% in the first half and scored 60 points, and led by one going into the locker room. I just know it.
  • I'm half in, half out on this train of thought. By no means do I think we would have won yesterday with KS. But this team showed very little desire...something that they wouldn't have done to KS.

    The fast break points we gave up would at least have been cut in half.
  • By the way, not sure there's anything DD could or should have done about this.

    But it's obvious to fully end the KS era, DD needs to not be the next full time head coach.
  • Timmy
    Even SocksShortsSwish agrees with me that we lack intensity since KS left the team!
  • I've been as pro-KS as they've come. I feel bad that DD's in this situation, but he is.
  • Ricky
    I would have liked to see this team win at least a share of the Big Ten. O well though

    And I think it is important to note that Eric Gordon had another good game against MSU. If we see them again in the Big Ten tourny, without the emotions of senior day and without the sickest shooting performance of the year, I like our chances. They can't guard Eric, and they can't shoot like that again. they just can't
  • Plus, the Big Ten tourney is in Indianapolis. Michigan State has been abyssmal away from the Breslin Center this year. Having an effective home crowd for the game, Indiana should look more like the team that won by 19 rather than lost by 30.
  • jp22
    I agree with you except the fact about who cares about winning the Big Ten. I think that is an important part to any team is winning the conference. Usually as a team your goals are win conference and win the tournament. Its disappointing a team with this much talent doesn't win the conference. Although we have had some crazy circumstances to play in but it all goes back to you have to take care of your home court. Getting beat at home vs. Wisconsin is the game I think is hurting us.
  • I agree. I take a lot of pride in being able to put another year up on that Big Ten Championship banner at Assembly.
  • BrianK
    Not only does the Big Ten Titile go, so does any chance of us getting a 3 seed. Having a loss that huge and end of season doesnt sit well with the tourney selection committee. Ks did good and bringing these guys in but the development jsut hasn't been there. I think there heads have beeen to big all year. Seems as though (coaching wise) everyone is scared to yell at them, correct tehm or re-educate them too much. Sometime with kids the PC thing of timeouts and standing in the corner doesn't work ya need to get a bit old school and break off a switch and whip some ass. These kids need a serious dose of that. Make them run to their eyes pop.
  • IndianaJoe
    I'm all for that. The serious lack of focus and intensity were killing me. This team really needs a Coverdale. Tom was one of the most intense people I knew, and he could drink a shitload (I really don't know what that means on the court, but anybody who has ever drank with him, damn he could pound a beer). Does anybody remember him and Darby always going at it? This is what this team needs.
  • MikeyD
    I'm over it. Move forward and make the best of a tough situation. Win out and hope for WU and PU to lose 1 each. If not, win the B10 tourney and go deep into the NCAA tourney. Go Hoosiers. Why is DJ our only big who keeps the ball high and doesn't bring it down to his waist every time. If EJ makes the extra pass a few times, we score more.
  • steve
    Everyone had to know this was coming, I mean all year our defense has sucked. Ellis and Thomas are not D1 material. Crawford will get better. And for those of you who think we win this game with KS you have no clue. Can we blame this on DD no way. DD does not play for these kids. They had no emotion or determination which I cannot understand for the life of me. The only thing I guess DD could have done is take out all starters except for DJ and EJ.
  • Raymond
    Someone yesterday wrote that they felt more upset about all of this than the players and I believe that is EXACTLY the problem! When something doesn't go our way half of our team is whining to the refs and not getting back on defense. It seems like our team cannot take responsibility for the failings and is just all around immature.

    However, If a loss like this has to occur I am glad it happened when it did. This team got their asses handed to them on national tv and maybe it will provide a wake up call just in time for the Big Ten Tourney and the NC2A's. The regular season title went out the window with MSU 70%+ shooting and lackluster D but maybe it can save our season in the long run.

    I am also officially starting a campaign to send Deandre Thomas back to the McDonald's from which he came. Worthless.
  • Raymond,

    Enough with the DeAndre to McDonald's stuff. You've said it a hundred times now. We heard you the first time.
  • Yeah, why not get creative and offer him to Bill Lynch as a left guard. All they have to do is stand there and get in the way, which is pretty much what DeAndre has excelled at this season.
  • Here, here.
  • BrianK
    If any of these players would of been developed like they should have we wouldn't be having near as many problems. Even Dj's development came mostly during Summer and Pan Am Games. Absolutely horrible job developing this team by these coaches.
  • JamesHardy
    I agree...we need to send his ass to subway and get on that Jarod diet! By next year, he might be under 250 and run up and down the floor with the rest of the team.
  • Enough about the food!
  • ALH_00
    He runs just fine...what is everyone else's excuse though? I know DJ is hurting. It shows in the way he runs. As for the rest of them, WTF? Play ball...both ends of the court. Better yet, don't play unless you play defense. That defensive attitude won us 20 games last year with less talent.
  • kelin
    I think Timmy meant if we got rid of KELLEN sampson....
  • Abs
    For sure, this game was the outlier of all outliers and probably shouldn't be worried over too much. Seriously, since when does Michigan State actually take care of the ball. Still, I think the points about the D are on target. According to kenpom, the Hoosiers have put up their 2 worst defensive performances in the last 3 games: http://kenpom.com/expsked.php?&c=O_OE&team=Indiana. That does coincide with Sampson's ouster. The Hoosiers definitely need to get their D together, or they won't be winning many more games.
  • Is it possible that DD is somewhat tentative to lay into these guys about the defense?

    Defense isn't all that fun to play. Think he's afraid of a coup if he really gets after them like he should?
  • If he is afraid, he shouldn't be the coach. Period.
  • Kind of what I was getting at.
  • Raymond
    AGREED. DD is so concerned with trying to unite these guys and not overwhelm them since they're already SOOOO emotional that he is being way too tentative with them. This team needs a week like what Pat Knight gave tech after that loss to A&M by 40+ where they were out flipping, and running with, tractor tires. Someone needs to be the ass kicker here and get them in line.
  • One wonders what's going to happen after a 58-point shellacking at Kansas last night.
  • ALH_00
    Wow! I read that in the paper this morning and was simply shocked. They lose by 40+, beat TEXAS, then lose again by 50+. Just goes to show you...what I don't know.
  • CutterInChicago
    Good story/analysis from the Bloomington Herald-Times (or as I prefer remembering it, the Herald Telelphone)

    http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/2008/0...

    In particular:

    "In the three games since Dakich took over, the Hoosiers haven’t been the same team they were in Sampson’s final five games when they played with an intensity, particularly on defense, they hadn’t shown with any consistency earlier in the season.

    What they showed Sunday was a return to too much one-on-one play on offense and a continuation of some jogging back on defense we saw early in the Northwestern game the day after IU announced that Sampson was done.

    We also IU players complaining about not getting foul calls too often, rather than continuing to play, something that’s becoming an unfortunate hallmark of this Hoosier team. "

    Hopefully this will get sorted out...
  • ronb
    Earlier this year I read a post here that said something like" Ellis was fast becoming their favorite player". Others commented the same so what went wrong?? His head is messed up. He was a vital part to IU's team but now it sound like many of you think he is a poor player. I think for IU to win he must perform like he is capable of doing. He was a stat stuffer and now I believe to get him that way again requires an attitude adjustment from coach DD. Find him a seat on the bench and leave him there until he decides this is IU Basketball and 110% is required for him to see playing time. It's
    not to late to coach these guys and get them ready for the big dance.
  • Sherron Wilkerson
    78.8% in the first half, please, that happens once every 2 years in the NCAA, we just happened to be the recipient this time, it also didn't help that we just kicked their ass in front of an emotionally pumped up assembly hall on national TV, that tends to embarrass players ,coaches and the entire campus. World hunger aside, I will pray tonight that we get to play them 1 more time, we will slaughter them
  • I can shoot 78.8% if they're all uncontested layups.

    That's obvious hyperbole, but we didn't play much defense. Division 1 teams, especially ranked teams, can shoot that well in a shootaround type atmosphere.
  • Don D
    Looking back over the game yesterday one would have to agree MSU played out of their asses. Not many time you going to shoot 77.8% and loose a basketball game. After the first half IU played MSU straight up in the second half. I also believe if we play them again at Conseco IU will win. When a team shots that well you going to loose (remember what Villanova did to Georgetown to win NCAA)? Some type of defense would also help.
  • HoosierSmitty
    I cannot believe how many people are chalking it up to MSU just having a good game. We are too talented to lose by 29 points at this stage in the season.

    We did not defend well...look at how many times MSU set a screen and opened up a 3 point shot or an easy layup. It was grade school stuff that was never corrected. NO TEAM sets screens that well for 40 minutes...but again and again IU was getting beat by screens...whether they were off the ball or on the ball screens.

    Dakich's fix was to play zone apparently. That worked out well. MSU still "screened" the zone and our players were too slow to jump out shooters, leaving them wide open again and again.

    Offensively, I could not believe how many times we had the ball stripped from us. Out of bounds plays are just sad. They aren't even plays...

    It was a chaotic scene and IU looked lost. Our play was uninspired and flat out lazy.

    I love this team, and I hope the Hoosiers get it on track, but with a Big Ten title basically in the trash can, time is running short for a successful season. Let's hope having the Big Ten tourney in Indy is the Hoosiers' saving grace.
  • Fozan
    While I agree with most of the arguments on this post, I truely believe that to fix the problem is not going to happen on the BB court. The coaching staff need to demonstrate strong leadership and get into the heads of the players. Anyone watching the game could tell the way the game was heading from the player's body language. Either they want to play ball, or they don't. If not, then DD might as well get the bench on to the court. And by the way, I never liked Ellis / DT from the begining, as for JC, I think it's a matter of discipline. Again, back to the lack of leadership.
  • Raymond
    My roommates and I were discussing our bench situation during this game yesterday and we were curious if anyone else wondered about benching some of our starters for there lackluster defense and giving some guys like Eli Holman and Brandon McGee a chance to play and show what they can do?
    It seems like it not only serves as a wake up call to the entrenched starters but could maybe help us deepen our rotation to a little more than the 7 or 8 players we have now.
  • The problem is, do you want to potentially ruin a redshirt for these guys?

    Granted, I haven't been able to watch the games in the earlier part of the season, but if they haven't played yet, then why put them out there now?
  • My guess is that Eli can't do much on a broken wrist. The coaching staff has said, time and time again, that McGee is a 3. They don't want him focusing on anything but being a 3.

    There's a log jam at the 3. McGee is not the answer.
  • Jerry
    I listened to the Fox Sports channel on XM this afternoon when they had an interview liive w Alford. Of course they asked him about IU coaching job. He said he is very happy where he is and they are spending $60m on renovations of facilties, plus they have 15k seat fieldhouse.

    He endorsed DD for the next coach because " he knows how to win at IU".

    Winning is the same everywhere. This BS is why we need to get away from this IU connection crap and get the best coach we can
  • Don D
    I also agree. Look for the best coach that's available. Who cares what Kitchell or Benson or Alford says. Stay away from Pearl and Calapari. They both have way too much baggage.
  • briank
    Well especially the way Tennessee has played he has just plain been outcoached especially during hte KY game.
  • kelin
    Heard Scott Drew this afternoon on wnde....he said IU is still a big time destination job...what he didn't say was the typical I am just trying to focus on my team...he also said it was flattering to be mentioned.......

    mmmmmmm
  • Dirk
    A guy I know heard from a guy he trusts that Drew's running a dirty program. (The first part is true, I can't vouch for the rest.)
  • Sam Snead
    I figured at the beginning of the year that we would loose to Michigan State at Breslin. I agree with statement made that the Wisconson game is the game we really messed on. If we would of won we would be in a three-way tie right now. I was just disappointed with the lack of effort by the players and the fact that Dackich is not "coaching" the team.....or he doesn't have control over them or whatever. I guess all we can do now is hope Ohio State beats purdue, so at least they don't get any of the action.

    Crawford is a good player. I don't see how anyone could disagree with that. He is a freshman....we can't expect him to preform like a senior. When (or if) Crawford is a junior and bassett is a senior they will be the best backcourt in the big ten. Shaheen Holloway would of been a nice addtion to that backcourt, but I suppose we better just take this one step at a time.

    I hope we come out alright in the Big Ten Tournament. I have a bad feeling if we have to play Illionois, but we will see. It would be a great accomplishment if we could get our act together and win in Indy. At least this seaon would be a total waste with this much talent.

    Coaching: we need to hire someone outside the IU family. We need the best coach out there. Alford can stay where he is at and Dackich can head back to the "basketball operations" office. I liked Sampson, myself, but it was a mistake to hire him in the first place. All we need is a coach that will A: Keep the players where they are. B: Hold on to the recruits. C: Run an offense D: Make the team defensively sound.
  • Good to know...also good to know that your comment sounds ridiculous and has little chance of being taken seriously.
  • ALH_00
    Winning the conference should be the No. 1 goal every year. That IU hasn't done it since 2002 is sad. That we (maybe) won't be in a position to do it again for a few years is sad.

    I hope y'all were joking. You probably were, but I'm having a hard time recognizing humor right now.
  • Sam Snead
    socksshortsswish can suckswallowsmile
  • Uh, didn't reply to your post, but Dirk's post about "friend of a college roommate's cousin said he found a hieroglyphic message saying Scott Drew runs a dirty program."

    Good work, though, gumshoe. Next time check the thread hierarchy.
  • Sam Snead
    i'll try that next time douche bag

    Go hoosiers!!
  • Ignorant.
  • Sam Snead
    i have a hard time dealing with homo's sorry
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