Indiana falls 69-52 to Ohio State, drops fifth straight

The first meeting between Indiana and Ohio State produced a woefully one-sided contest, 79-54, back on January 6 at Value City Arena.

Fast forward the calendar five weeks and the rematch was the same old story.

Too much Will Buford, Dallas Lauderdale and Evan Turner. No offensive cohesion. And not nearly the defensive intensity needed to be competitive.

The result: A fifth straight loss for Indiana – 69-52 – dropping the Hoosiers to 9-14 overall and 3-8 in the Big Ten.

“It was pathetic in a lot of ways,” Tom Crean told Don Fisher on the postgame radio show. “It was pathetic defensively. It’s inexcusable, but I don’t have a lot of avenues to go right now in the sense of making different decisions. But we will and we’ll be able to correct it and fix it as we move along.”

Through the first 12-plus minutes, Indiana looked like it might make a game of it. With Turner on the bench with two fouls, the Hoosiers were within one at 18-17.

Ohio State responded with a 16-3 run the last 7:48 of the half to grab a 34-20 halftime lead. And the Hoosiers never got within 12 the rest of the way.

“The margin for error against teams like that are so poor for us, but we don’t have any chance when we don’t play harder than that,” Crean said.

Buford finished with a game-high 21 points, Lauderdale added 14 points and eight rebounds and Turner, the front runner for Big Ten Player of the Year, had 10 points, seven rebounds and six assists in 21 minutes.

It was the eighth straight Big Ten win for Ohio State, moving the Buckeyes into a tie for first place.

Indiana, which shot just 37 percent from the field, got 15 points and seven rebounds from Christian Watford and 13 points from Jordan Hulls.

+ Box score

  • Andrew

    You're exactly right, Vslice. You have every reason to be nervous, too. It's hard to believe that our team of first and second-year players can't hang with a team as weak as Ohio State. Pathetic. And I'm definitely with you as far as giving up on the freshman class. I mean they've played 23 games, right? So what if half have been without the best player? That's just an excuse. With all the offensive firepower at our disposal, we shouldn't need someone like Creek. Bottom line: we're almost TWO full years into the Crean regime and we're still losing games!!! Can you believe that??? When we, as fans, said we'd be patient, we meant we'd be patient as long as the wins came immediately. This is so ugly it almost feels like our program got gutted and had to start from scratch. But we both know that's not the case—we were left with Taber and Finkelmeier last year, hardly what I'd call a “rebuilding” project! But I digress. I just don't know what I'm gonna do if we don't beat Wisconsin Saturday.

  • q95

    just when i thought it was safe to go back into the hall…

  • http://www.prinsportsblog.com BGleas

    Well put!

  • Vslice

    Where did I say I was giving up? Your making my point, my argument here is that after year one two of our better transfer. Now we are starting over for sure. Crean is the one saying that he has no players at his disposal. I find that to be crap, and a cop out for losing players that he recruited. Im not sure you completely understand my viewpoint. He brought in a bunch of 3 star players to get rid of two guys that were already here and just as good. It was a parallel move, except we loose another year. I said nothing about Ohio St thats all you. I said nothing about Wisconsin thats all you. Sounds to me that your the one ticked off, Im just wondering why Crean said what he did after you look at everything that has happened over the last two seasons now. All the other comments came out of your mouth, so I cant criticize but you can criticize every fan that is critical of the team. Huh, sounds communistic… but your the man!!!! Keep writing hate returns it also it such a positive move, keep up the good work and read a little more thoroughly next time before you put words in my mouth.

  • Vslice

    Where did I say I was giving up? Your making my point, my argument here is that after year one two of our better transfer. Now we are starting over for sure. Crean is the one saying that he has no players at his disposal. I find that to be crap, and a cop out for losing players that he recruited. Im not sure you completely understand my viewpoint. He brought in a bunch of 3 star players to get rid of two guys that were already here and just as good. It was a parallel move, except we loose another year. I said nothing about Ohio St thats all you. I said nothing about Wisconsin thats all you. Sounds to me that your the one ticked off, Im just wondering why Crean said what he did after you look at everything that has happened over the last two seasons now. All the other comments came out of your mouth, so I cant criticize but you can criticize every fan that is critical of the team. Huh, sounds communistic… but your the man!!!! Keep writing hate returns it also it such a positive move, keep up the good work and read a little more thoroughly next time before you put words in my mouth.

  • hansschnier

    I tried something like this line of “reasoning” after the Iowa debacle.

    A few seemed to be on the same wavelength, but mostly I was told how little I knew about basketball and called a bad IU fan.

    Keep a white-knuckled grip on your dark sense of humor. We'll need it to get through the upcoming basketball, and every one of the post-loss “gut the team” comments.

  • hansschnier

    I tried something like this line of “reasoning” after the Iowa debacle.

    A few seemed to be on the same wavelength, but mostly I was told how little I knew about basketball and called a bad IU fan.

    Keep a white-knuckled grip on your dark sense of humor. We'll need it to get through the upcoming basketball, and every one of the post-loss “gut the team” comments.

  • hansschnier

    I tried something like this line of “reasoning” after the Iowa debacle.

    A few seemed to be on the same wavelength, but mostly I was told how little I knew about basketball and called a bad IU fan.

    Keep a white-knuckled grip on your dark sense of humor. We'll need it to get through the upcoming basketball, and every one of the post-loss “gut the team” comments.

  • Andrew

    Uh, yeah. You meant to say “lose,” not “loose.” Two totally different words. And “you’re” is what’s known as a contraction. It’s short for “you are.” When you write, “your making my point…”, or “your the man” it should actually be, “YOU’RE making my point…”, or “YOU’RE the man.” You’re also leaving out words, so it’s quite difficult to understand what you’re trying to say. I suggest slowing down when you type. I do admit I got a smile out of being called “communistic.” Now that’s a word you just don’t hear often enough.

  • widget

    Personnel, plain and simple. We just can't hang. And did you notice the blow-by move by TC during hand-shake time? Kinda liked that.

    We need more horses, boys.

  • Vslice

    Isnt Tom Crean the one who told Nick Williams he would be better off somewhere else?? Did TC demand that Malik Story was making a bad decision going home and that he demands that he stick it out for another year?? We bring in a big time recruiting class full of 2 and 3 star athletes and clear out the team for their arrival. Now this is the same coach saying, “I dont have a lot of different avenues to go to right now.” Oh really, well guess what — this is your recruiting class. This is the class that moved Story and Williams out of the way. Tell you what, lets get rid of Elston, Roth, and maybe someone else and lets start over again next year. We should have seen this coming, but Crean saying he doesnt have any to go to is no one's fault but his own. He needs to own up to the decisions he made at the end of last season going into this year. Im sorry but I dont buy, I'm starting to get a bit nervous. I just hope some of the players aren't thinking the same thing or this could be a long, long 3 or 4 years. Its already been a long 2 years, just dont know how many more I can take before this thing gets ugly

  • Vslice

    Why did you like that? He wont do that to the officials, he doesnt do that to his own players, but he does it to Thad Matto. Why?? Thads fault that he had his team prepared to thump IU at home, his fault that he can recruit and knows how to keep his “horses”. I dont know man, I just dont see it that way, it was unprofessional on all levels. I think it was weak, why doesnt he do that to Dumes when he shoots from half court 4 times a game???

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Shannon-Straub/1680600021 Shannon Straub

    Defense please.

  • widget

    Being facetious. He got schooled on his home court. I mean schooled. TC needs to get after his boys, his slow-mo offense and get those completely corny big-heads out of the student section. Circus time wears thin in the face of losses like that.

  • http://www.prinsportsblog.com BGleas

    Seriously, what are you talking about?

  • Vslice

    Ok BGleas since your in tight with everyone why dont you tell my why Nick Williams transferred? Wasn't he a TC recruit? He leaves after year one, why? Now TC is saying that he is running out of options, so who's fault is that? And if you dont think that Elston transferring is a real probability well I guess you'll just have to wait and see now want you. Moore gets 13 minutes and Elston gets 6. IU has spent the last two years starting over. If we loose another player, like Elston, it's going to hurt being that we have absolutely no big men now and none in the immediate future. My point from all of this was Creans response that he is out of options right now with his players. I find that hard to believe number one and number two this is his responsibility. He recruited these guys, they are his players and now he claims he is out of options. So does this mean he recruited the wrong guys??? Im glad that you think this is totally of the wall, something that couldn't happen huh?? Its already happening so Im asking you, are you seriously watching the program over the last two years??

  • http://www.prinsportsblog.com BGleas

    I don't know why Williams and Story transferred, but neither do you! Yet, you come on here throw around that TC told Williams he's be better off somewhere else and the he “demanded” Story stick it out for one more year. Were in on the conversations or can you provide some credible links?

    You do realize we had 1.3 ppg returning last season, right? Crean has had one real recruiting class. One!! And, all those guys are freshmen, with the best one being injured. Do you think Dumes, Rivers and Tijan would be scholarship players at IU under normal circumstances. Maybe Rivers, but he certainly wouldn't be starting. Are you really forgetting what was inherited this quickly?

    It's not that he recruited the wrong guys, he had to field a fricking team last year. His hands were tied. You really think this is the team he would hand pick under normal circumstances? You're out of your mind if you think that.

  • http://www.prinsportsblog.com BGleas

    Well put!

  • Vslice

    Where did I say I was giving up? Your making my point, my argument here is that after year one two of our better transfer. Now we are starting over for sure. Crean is the one saying that he has no players at his disposal. I find that to be crap, and a cop out for losing players that he recruited. Im not sure you completely understand my viewpoint. He brought in a bunch of 3 star players to get rid of two guys that were already here and just as good. It was a parallel move, except we loose another year. I said nothing about Ohio St thats all you. I said nothing about Wisconsin thats all you. Sounds to me that your the one ticked off, Im just wondering why Crean said what he did after you look at everything that has happened over the last two seasons now. All the other comments came out of your mouth, so I cant criticize but you can criticize every fan that is critical of the team. Huh, sounds communistic… but your the man!!!! Keep writing hate returns it also it such a positive move, keep up the good work and read a little more thoroughly next time before you put words in my mouth.

  • hansschnier

    I tried something like this line of “reasoning” after the Iowa debacle.

    A few seemed to be on the same wavelength, but mostly I was told how little I knew about basketball and called a bad IU fan.

    Keep a white-knuckled grip on your dark sense of humor. We'll need it to get through the upcoming basketball, and every one of the post-loss “gut the team” comments.

  • Vslice

    My point about Story was that Crean COULD HAVE told him, no malik I demand that you dont go, we are going to make this work. Come on hang on for one more year, what do you say. That was my point, and no I wasnt riding in a car next to TC when this happened, it is hypothetical. Here is an old article about Williams. If you cant read between the lines, well I guess you'll have to get with some of your “boys” for a break down. Kills me, its like you cant be critical of anything or your a bad fan. You know what, I pay cash to into assembly to watch games since my dad and I have gone since Ive been four of five. Now I take my kids to the games, you know what I will say whatever it is that I want to say about this program. When I paid money to go to the university and pay money to go to the games I have every right to say what I want and dont need to hear it from some ALL LOVING FAN, ALL KNOWING FAN. Give it a break bro

  • http://www.prinsportsblog.com BGleas

    First, your original post didn't have a lot of “COULD HAVE” in it. You sounded pretty definitive. Second, myself and many other fans have no problem with constructive criticism of how the team is playing and the direction of the program. For example, even though Crean has said he was behind with the '10 class, I'm very disappointed he hasn't been able to follow up the '09 class with another impact one.

    It's when some fans show a complete lack of understanding of the situation right now, the situation that Crean inherited that bother most. You have the right to say anything you want, that's of course true, it would just help the discussion if you seemed to understand the situation.

    This isn't his team. This is a bunch of guys thrown together, minus their leading scorer in Creek and minus their best shooter in Roth. Also, the '09 class wasn't a bunch of 3*. According to Rivals, Creek, Watford and Elston were all 4* players.

    Care to elaborate on who my “boys” are?

  • Vslice

    Once again your arrogance is unbelievable. I'm just glad that you understand the situation. I have never played basketball, my dad had never coached basketball. I ask alot of quetions, usually to my wife, about basketball cause I dont know whats going on. I just wished I understood the situation like you BGleas. Your a piece of work. My original point has been completely overthought. I said nothing about the teams performance, had everything to do with the comment TC made after the game to Fish. Sorry I didnt state everything just precisely as you would have wanted it. Im done with you man. Has nothing to do with you, this was my opinion and you have made it clear that you are some kind of inside, be all know all guy. Your the man, fo sho!! Goodnite chap, you can school on the ways of IU basketball tomorrow OK!!! Cant wait, wink wink

  • http://www.prinsportsblog.com BGleas

    You know what, lets chalk it up to this. You're frustrated with some things going on, especially some of the transfers and recruiting. I'm openly admit I'm frustrated with some fans that I feel are overacting, or not giving the patience that is needed.

    I apologize if you feel I attacked you. That wasn't my intention. As others are frustrated with the performance on the court, I really am getting frustrated with fans that I feel aren't giving Crean the time he needs.

    Sorry. Would still like to know who my “boys” are?

  • valpohistory

    “Isnt Tom Crean the one who told Nick Williams he would be better off somewhere else??”
    I'm pretty sure it was Williams who was concerned over his “role” with the team? In his post season interview, Crean probably addressed his role on next year's team and said that there would be a large competition for minutes if he stayed. Then Williams probably said, I feel I should transfer and Crean said, you gotta do what you gotta do. Williams was a Crean guy from his days at Marquette. Williams was gonna follow Crean wherever he went. Crean did not want to run him out of town. If he wanted to run anyone out of town, it would be a player who he was sure would not get a lot of minutes this year, ala Matt Roth, who despite being healthy in the weak, very winnable games at the beginning of the year, got very little minutes. This is all probable and speculation as neither of us know what happened in that room, but I find it VERY hard to believe that Crean would run out a player that could definitely have helped this team right now as a strong defender and rebounder who could also score the ball adequately.

    “Did TC demand that Malik Story was making a bad decision going home and that he demands that he stick it out for another year??”
    Show some compassion. The kid wanted to go home. He was from California playing in the very cold Indiana weather for a TERRIBLE basketball team. If he wanted to transfer closer so that his mom and dad could come see their boy play basketball, does that mean Crean ran him out of town? If you were TC and a player came into your office asking for a transfer to go to a school closer to his parents because he was homesick and didn't think that he could be comfortable here, you would “demand that Malik Story was making a bad decision going home and that he demands that he stick it out for another year?” I hate that you're saying that CTC is responsible for running these kids out of town. Unless you know something that no one else does, and the exact reasons why these kids are gone, it really is not fair to claim that it's CTC's fault. Maybe he asked those kids to stay, and they told him that they felt it was the best case for them. Would you still “demand” they stay?

    Coach Crean doesn't have a lot of avenues. He's in essentially the same place he was last year. I am with you in that I wish we still had Williams. I was okay with the Story departure because while he did some good things, he also made a lot of boneheaded mistakes and wouldn't have seen much playing time this year with how many guards we have this year, although the depth wouldn't hurt. Williams would be a very good rebounder for this team and he would probably be starting in VJ3's spot as a big physical guard that can play defense extremely well, which while I love Verdell's ability to score, makes me want to tear my hair out every time I watch IU play. Believe me, a lot of the fan's on here wish the exact same thing that you do. We all want IU to win and hang banners. Coach Crean has taken a lot of blame for this team but you can't put it all on him. You can't win with freshman and sophomores. When the leader of your team is a sophomore, who would be a redshirt freshman at a lot of other schools because he wouldn't have even played last season, you have a major problem. I hate the excuse of youth, but in this situation, IT IS NOT AN EXCUSE! It is the blatant truth. I say that CTC has one more year to make a tournament. Next year, he absolutely has to make the NIT. He has to or he will be on the hot seat. People will start asking for answers. However, it is very possible that if, and I stress IF, this team develops the way that it should, that the bigs get stronger, the wings improve their ball handling and shooting, and Rivers and Hulls can adequately distribute the ball, with the return of Mo Creek, they have a damn good shot at making the NCAA tourney. Again, if. Be patient. They're young, but they show you the flashes of brilliance. They will be outstanding players, you have to let them develop. Perhaps you're right, maybe a kid or two will transfer, but it won't be because TC told them that they need to pack up and leave. Everyone looks at TC's annual “spring cleaning” at his teams at Marquette, but maybe it's because he is a straight shooter in these exit interviews that he conducts. Maybe he tells the kids that unless they work extremely hard, they won't play a lot of minutes for this team, and some kids don't respond to the challenge but I don't see how that is TC's fault. Also, I want to make it known, I am not attacking you. I am just trying to point out that if you want to look at one side of the argument, you also have to look at the other side too, which I've presented.

    Go Hoosiers. We got 5.

  • Druid

    I share your feelings on OUR team. However, let me give you some advice.You might as well start reading another blog. These two, “andrew and bgleas”, are the “hall monitors here. They decide what is appropriate to say and feel about OUR team. I was called out on another post for essentially stating the same concerns as you brought up and Inside The Hall refused to even post my response. It is my belief that people have every right to vent their frustrations as a fan even though some others don't approve but one thing is for sure, how good would it be if we only knew as much as those two.

  • Druid

    You and some of your supporters on this forum seem to immediately attack anyone who questions the direction, effort, and coaching of OUR team. It is my opinion that we all have a right to do this. I have not seen a post where anybody has attacked your opinions of this team or questions your knowledge of the game. Let’s be clear, it is an opinion, we all have them and we all are deserving of our own. The problem lies with the fact that you seem to go after people personally rather than just read the post and understand that it’s their opinion and leave it at that. I don’t think the players and certainly the coaches need a personal protector. I have even seen where a persons spelling was brought in focus as an attempt to ridicule and belittle someone who didn’t share their views. This type of behavior is pathetic and sophomoric at best.

    You are not out of line for posting your opinion. However to ridicule someone else for their opinion is out of line.

    We are all painfully aware of the particulars of this years team and some of us believe that we should be further along with the maturation process of this team and frankly coaching than we are. For those of us that believe this to be the case, it is obviously extremely frustrating.

    No apology needed for an opinion, just don’t ridicule someone else for sharing theirs.

  • http://www.prinsportsblog.com BGleas

    Just to be clear, I have absolutely nothing to do with this site, other than the comments I post that are fully my own. I participate in some of the game chats occasionally and comment a lot, but that's it.

    I had no idea people felt I was some sort of “hall monitor” here. I'm flattered :)

    Not that it matters what I think, but I'm sorry if myself and some other posters get frustrated with people commenting about how TC put this team together and it's his fault the players aren't good enough, and that IU should be better by this point.

    Of course he did bring the players in, but IMO it's pretty short-sighted to blame him given the situation he inherited. Do you really think players were beating down the door to commit to a team that had two walk-ons returning? Do you really think TC would have handpicked this team had it been 100% up to him?

    Sorry if I'm out of line for posting my opinion.

  • Will

    Crean has the “Cubs Syndrone”…next year, next year. It now appears Marquette is a much better program without Crean. His tired defense, poor ball movement and continuing fundamental court mistakes can only fall on his shoulders.. What did he learn about rebounding from IZZO??? Four years is too long to pamper this guy!!!

  • Hoagland

    BGleas,

    I try to be in the middle. I see what you are saying here, but at the same time, I feel their point too. Yes, there are some people who are ready to jump ship and just complain to complain, but there are some posters, and to be honest sometimes you come off this way whether you mean it or not, who won't let anyone say anything negative, even if it is constructive. I think maybe a few bad apples have soured you to think anyone who voices concern is just a basher who doesn't know anything.

    Unlike some posters above, I grew up playing basketball, played through high school, went to nationals in AAU, just like a lot of other kids. My point is not that I'm awesome, my point is that I'm not a casual fan who doesn't understand whats going on, so what I would like to do is stimulate a real discussion here, with MY CONCERNS and I would like YOUR opinions (Got that everyone else? its just people who can be respectful having a debate like is supposed to happen.)

    1. I don't think that we should be going marching this year and didn't expect a 20 win season, but baring some huge influx of confidence and wins, we won't get more that 11 this year. I know we are young, and that we need more talent and were decimated, I get that, but… watching us stick with some good squads (Purdue and Illinois) you can't argue that we are so bad we deserve to have terrible effort and get blown out by OSU by giving them at least 5 dunks against a Zone! I'm fine with losing when we are out talented, but to lose games we should win, or get blown out in games who should compete in, is simply unacceptable. We have more talent on this team than 9 wins. Can you honestly watch these games and not think that?

    2. Crean has constantly said, I need more talent. This is true, but how much more? I, or you, or anyone could win 70% of my games and make the tourney (probably do a lot better to be honest) with a bunch of 5-star and veterans. (See Kentucky. Just let them play) With that said, that is not coming even in the next 4 years. even with the best 2010 and best 2011 classes we could pull off from here on (Selby, Zeller, insert your favorite) they will still be young, and we will still have the other players we have. This isn't changing. So what can change? My argument would be our strategy. We don't have the athletes yet, so to get them, we have to perform better than expected. This isn't going to happen running an NBA offense for Jordan Hulls and Tom Pritchard. (Creek can handle this offense, Jones at times, and Rivers can get to the rim, but he sure can't finish worth crap and he also turns it over about 5 times a game playing this way) We have some talented kids, that have no structure. Give them some sets to get them open. For example, one of many, Jordy can make 3's if hes open, but that's not gonna happen with him going 1 on 1. Give us some plays that get people open in a position where they can do something with the ball. If we have the talent, our current plight might work, but we don't and may not for a while, COACH WITH WHAT YOU HAVE! That's what good coaches do. Look back at some of our better teams of the past (This is not intended as an I love the General, bring him back) Were they filled with 5-stars? not at all. We made guys half as athletic look like good ball players. Luke Jimenez was productive for us, Tom Coverdale was a good point guard and was an un-athletic drunk. We have the athletes and bodies to develop, but aren't doing too much for them.

    3. Just because we are young, does not mean we can't teach and move forward. I know Crean has to be himself, and has done some of this. I know we don't see practice so we don't know what is said there. Even with those things being true, how does the message get to Dumes that he can't just pull up whenever he wants, or the message get to Jeremiah that driving 1 on 4 with nowhere to go and then throwing it away isn't okay either, how do these things get across if Crean only claps and then leaves them in. I thought he said people had to earn their spots this year. They aren't earning anything. Yank them out when they get out of hand, then teach them, let them get over it, and put em back in.

    I'll put it this way, MSU wasn't playing up to their potential early this year. I know Crean learned there and respects IZZO. What did he do? KICKED HIS BEST PLAYER OUT OF PRACTICE. It worked great until Lucas recently was hurt and they went on a 3 game skid. before this, their help defense was some of the best in the country (no not perfect at all, but when they did it right, really really good D). Our help defense is terrible, and we just keep doing it. It can't be all blamed on youth either. No one gets yelled out for face guarding a guy away from the ball, it looks like they are being told to do that. And the match-up zone is just terrible. How many lay-ups and dunks can we give up in a ZONE. You know the defense that is supposed to pack the middle and not let anyone in, and has to be beaten over the top with 3's… that defense, well we give up lay-ups in it because we have some of our best defenders and older players, running all over to find a man within the zone. This will not work in the Big Ten. Give us 5-stars, and it will not work. Yet its the defense we are obviously coached to be in.

    Sorry, I got carried away in venting. My overall point is that while I agree with you we need some time to be where we were, and to be competing for the B10 title, we already have more than enough talent to be better than we are. 3 more wins this season is a huge dissapointment when you think about how much more talent we have this year, with some good players being a year older, and the fact that we played some horrible teams this year that were even worse than teams we played last year. We are better than a 9 win team, but yet here we sit at 9 wins with a good chance we won't get a 10th. This comes down to the coach, no matter how young we are. This program deserves a good coach, and good coaches win with less talent. Good coaches get the most out of what they have. We haven't done that at all. We put our kids in situations that they can't live up to, and struggle through, because its what the coach wants to play. How about setting up stuff that helps the players use the skills they do have?

    I like Coach Crean, I really do. I like his enthusiasm, I like his recruiting, and I like what hes done with the public outreach and getting back old players to events. What worries me with him, is that this is not the BIg East. The Big East has some really good teams, it has some teams with a lot more talent than a lot of Big Ten teams, but what they don't have, is a lot of set offense, and a lot of lockdown defense that scouts really well and gets people out of their sets. The Big Ten absolutley does. Thats why it is so slow as a conference. Even good teams can take all 35 of the shot clock to get their shot, because the defenses are prepaired and good. Unlike the Big East there are not a ton of teams that take the first shot they can get and use only 10 seconds of the clock. We play like a Big East team, and throughout a Big Ten season, that will consistently get killed by a team that sees them twice a year, every year. Its way to easy to shut off our 1 ball screen. Crean is in the Big Ten now, and its time that he start to coach like it. Take the guys that other people overlook, the effort guys, the small guys with gusto and knowledge like Jordy Hulls, and put them in a position where they can out execute other people. Thats how we can win and be good, its not going to be by running, jumping, or out talenting people anytime soon. You have to win to get top recruits, and we won't win without top recruits if we keep playing the style we are. 2 years is too soon to expect us to be back, but is it really too much to ask to improve on stupid mistakes and general basketball skills and knowledge throughout the year. Half our fanbase grew up playing right here in this great state of High School basketball and learned all of these things by 7th grade. It is not too much to expect our College players to know as much as our states junior high kids. That will be an argument that no one will ever convince me to think differently on. We are not so young that we can't execute general basketball skills and plays. or make free throws. or know that you don't save it under the other teams basket. or that 1 on 4 is not good odds. I could go on forever.

    Youth, Talent Level, or 'Proven Winners' are not excuses for poor basketball knowledge and game plans. If we get beat because the other team is simply better, then so be it, I can live with that and respect a good opponent. When we lose because of lack of effort, or we are not as prepaired as the other team, or don't make the proper adjustments to their disruptions of our game, that is when I can't take this anymore.

  • http://www.prinsportsblog.com BGleas

    I know you weren't talking about me specifically, but for anyone else following this, I have never responded to anyone by ridiculing their grammar. That's not my style. Also, not sure where I've personally attacked anyone. Is intimating that someone isn't grasping the magnitude of the situation IU was in a personal attack? If so, I apologize.

    Again, I'm all for constructive criticism of the team in-game and direction of the program. I'm really disappointed in the '10 class so far. I think Rivers needs to be benched. I agree Elston has been handled very poorly. His confidence is shot, and I think that's mainly on the coaching staff.

    Everyone has a right to their opinion and to post it. With that said, of course people are going to respond when a poster says CTC told Williams to leave, should have demanded Story stay and says the '09 class was a bunch of 2 and 3-star players and hasn't lived up to the hype. It's not opinion, that's factually incorrect. The '09 class had 3 4* and 3 3* players and are only freshmen, with the best one out for the season.

    Also, when people question why IU isn't winning since we had this great '09 class, isn't it fair to respond that it's just one class, not an entire team? That CTC would not have handpicked this team if he had a full strength program to work with. I'm not trying to be some huge CTC defender, but man, IU doesn't have a full roster, we just don't. IU is at a talent/experience disadvantage nearly every time they step on the court in the Big Ten.

  • http://www.prinsportsblog.com BGleas

    Sorry man, that's just way too much to comb through at this point. I appreciate your opinion and all I can is that I'm all for constructive criticism and debate of the team, CTC and the direction of the program. I think we're all frustrated and on edge with what's going on.

  • valpohistory

    No, I agree to that point about Crean spreading the blame politically, but I think he was doing so to try to light a fire under the guys, which it obviously worked as they played fairly well in their next two games. I'm also with you about Williams thing fr which I was talking about above. He could have realllllly helped this years team. It's also very possible Crean told him that minutes would be harder to get and he would really have to earn them and that they were given to him last year. We don't know, which is why BGLEAS freaked out in the posts earlier. People in certain situations get really upset about this team without looking at all of the avenues. Not to say you're in that group, but it kinda seemed that way earlier, which is what riled it up. Good discussion though, and I wish we had Nick back

  • vslice

    I appreciate your comments, look I obviously did not clearly state what I was trying to say. What I meant about Malik Story is this, I feel that TC “COULD HAVE SAID” look Malik I know its been rough but hang in there for another year and if you still feel the same then do what you need to do. I don't know, actually for all I know Crean may have said this to Story. If the kid wanted to be closer to home then that's absolutely fine. Good luck to Malik and I really hope things work out for him in the future cause Malik has a very nice game. The point I was making is that TC's comments after the game sounded like he was hanging the kids out to dry making the comment that he had no where to turn, no avenues to go down to be able to sit kids for the effort since there is no one he can turn to. I just think that its a pretty raw thing to say. He finally admitted the other day that it was his fault that he didnt have his team ready to play against Iowa. Took a week or so, but he finally admitted that he underestimated Iowa and he let his team off the hook during that week of preparation. TC has a habit of spreading the blame around very politically and without much every landing back to himself. Story is one thing but Nick Williams could of really helped this program in 2010. I have a funny feeling he got the, well Nick you might not get much playing time this year with all these freshman coming in, speech. If you remember TC was one player over on his scholarships, so somebody HAD to leave. So this is his new team, our new freshman, freshman he recruited and now has no one to turn to. He asked Bawa to take someones minutes, go out there and take someone's minutes he said. Who's, why??? So that was my point, I wasnt talking about losing to Ohio St., I wasnt talking about the way he coached, I wasnt talking about wins or loses (as some have put words into my mouth). I just think that was a pretty low thing to say about your team at this point in the year, that's all.

  • vslice

    Andrew, see if you understand this. Dont ever respond to one of my post again. I could care less about what you think.

  • Druid

    What an excellent post. Thank you! You summed up what many of us feel.

  • vslice

    Well I did have time to comb through everything and for the most part you are spot on. You make a great point in regards to the talent on this team and the record they have to show for it. Three more wins than last year, I really thought we would win 12 or 13. I understand we have had a string of bad luck with Roth and Creek going down with injuries, but 9 wins is hard to believe. I also think you made great points regarding TC's coaching style. We do not run an offense that will be successful for the type of players TC has recruited. I guess what really worries me the most at this point is the teams effort night in and night out. Besides a run that Kentucky put on us early in the second half (or whenever it was) we played well against them. Yes, Im also aware Creek was on the floor. I think thats what fans are looking for, everyone knew we probably are not winning that game against Ohio St., but the lack of effort is what really bothers most fans. Play hard, play smart and for the most part everyone is happy. There's problems, yeah a lot of problems, but when effort is one of the biggest one's two games in a row it starts making you think they have folded tent. Anyway, nice post — a great perspective on a difficult season.

  • vslice

    Honestly man it was very late, and I was very frustrated with what TC said after the game. The last thing I was concerned with was my grammar. I don't apologize for not proof reading it before I sent my post. I am 35 years old, I hated grammar in school, and I could definitely care less what some kid who has followed the Hoosiers for 5 or 6 years thinks about my grammar — you know —- your or you're (which are two totally different words by the way) believe me man I know my grammar is pathetic and I lost absolutely zero sleep over it. That was actually classic, I've read a lot of jawing from people on here, but correcting someone's grammar has got to be a first. Im just glad he (or she) is passionate about something!?!?!?!?!?

  • http://www.prinsportsblog.com BGleas

    If it wasn't for the spell check on the Disqus comments, people would probably think I was mentally challenged :)

  • Diesel

    Count me in as “one of the boys”! You're on the wrong thread BGleas….less overacting in the minute after thread.

  • valpohistory

    No, I agree to that point about Crean spreading the blame politically, but I think he was doing so to try to light a fire under the guys, which it obviously worked as they played fairly well in their next two games. I'm also with you about Williams thing fr which I was talking about above. He could have realllllly helped this years team. It's also very possible Crean told him that minutes would be harder to get and he would really have to earn them and that they were given to him last year. We don't know, which is why BGLEAS freaked out in the posts earlier. People in certain situations get really upset about this team without looking at all of the avenues. Not to say you're in that group, but it kinda seemed that way earlier, which is what riled it up. Good discussion though, and I wish we had Nick back

  • Druid

    Yep, I agree with you. I too sometimes have a difficult time with my grammar and like you, I didn't care much for that subject in school. But unlike you, I am 57 years old and have been watching IU basketball all of my life. So I feel it is within my right to at least give an opinion without others complaining. I do know that everyone on this forum are true fans of our Hoosiers but sometimes they seem to be a bit too protective. These are young men on our team, not little girls. I feel they can handle a little criticism.

    Many of us have brought up Coaches Creans shortcomings which I for the most part agree, but we should also be focusing on Coach Roshown McLeod's seemingly failures. He is our “big mens” coach and as obvious, they are woefully far behind where they should be in my opinion. We can't seem to be able to box out, haven't developed any moves of any consistency where we can get a score from our big men. Our guards do as much or more rebounding than our bigs do so it seems to me that Coach McLeod abilities needs to be questioned as well. Just recently Dan Dakich was asking the same thing.

    As many here are surely aware, there was some boos at the game against ohio state. So it seem it is not just a few of us that feel the way we do. But we all need to keep supporting our team no matter what. But, to question the coaching, effort, and direction should always be a privilege of fans.

  • http://www.prinsportsblog.com BGleas

    Thanks Diesel!

  • vslice

    I like that Druid, really do. You make great points, there is a fine line between some constructive criticism and people who just slam the Hoosiers whenever they get a chance. We have won three more games than all of last year and I'm not sure they will win another one. 15 wins in two years is underachieving as far as I'm concerned, especially this year's total which I'm sure even Crean is disappointed with. I really thought IU would win at least 12 and maybe even 15 depending on how well they developed. So the second year in a row with single digit victories and no sign of help on the way. So yea, Im worried and therefore I criticize some things that seem wrong or kids who look lost or out of place on the court. I have every right to voice my opinion when I think the coach is not running sets that give our kids the best chance to be successful. Im sorry but these pro sets are not working with most of these guys. I'm really tired of the high post weave — from elbow to elbow — then a one on one drive to the bucket that leads to turnovers. I wouldn't mind it if we were trying to run that with a Princeton kind of mindset that incorporated some back cuts, but thats not what Crean wants.

    I hope the best for this team and I want them to achieve. This is why I'm critical at times, but these guys on here almost worry me (really they irritate me) when they seem satisfied or without reservation cause “we are young and rebuilding”, or tell people they don't have a right to speak their mind cause this is only Creans second year. Well, the second year is almost over and next will be the third, then the fourth. What happens then??? When people step over the line and make comments like, “Crean needs fired right now!!” without stating why or giving alternatives, then I can see how someone might might make a comment or just simply ignore them. I don't know, there are no easy answers at this point and I don't think it can get much worse, so with that being said these kids need to quit over thinking everything and go out and have some fun, play ball like they have nothing to lose. I hardly ever get on the kids, its the coaching staff's comments or lack of preparation that usually tick's me off. Just as you said though, these kids have played ball their whole lives and I'm sure they have grown some pretty thick skin by this point.

    I'm not going anywhere, I couldn't if I tried so I'm hanging in there for sure and remember to always speak your mind even if it means making a few people mad. I can almost bet you that the majority of the people probably feel exactly as you, frustrated beyond belief!!!!!!!

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