I still remember when IU went to NCAA tournament every year, even if they often got knocked out in the first round. But some idiot decided to send his son to bait Coach Knight into getting kicked out of Indiana basketball. And, as a result, ruining Indiana basketball! Coach Creen is a good guy, but, last I saw, his draft class wasn't even CLOSE to Ohio State, Michigan State and Illinois.

Im sorry, I agree with Mr. snyder. Everyone says that Crean is such a great recruiter, then recruit a big man already. All of Creans main recruits next year are more guards, we have guard, we need big men. And Speaking of guards, Crean has no reason to put Danielle Moore in the game unless were up or down 40. I feel that Tom Crean is to blame for all of our losses this seaon. The substitutions are rediculous, Pritchard's garbage, we have no size in the paint, poor Watford has to play out of postion, River's can't make a jump shot. But inside all that crap we do have talent on that team, I just feel that Crean in not putting the right personell on the floor.

There is just way too much balance, sense, grounding and perspective in all of these posts for this to be the intertubes. I must be having a dream.

There are a few things at play here. First, the writer of the article does not take into account that to begat winning, you must first win. Now, Tom Crean individually has won and he has a success stories to point to (Wade, obviously, but also Steve Novak and Travis Diener were/are NBA players), however, the culture of Indiana has to be rebuilt. Winners want to come to a winning situation, so when they do not see the ability to win (on the only stage that matters, the NCAA tournament), they will not come to a place that does not allow them to perform on that stage. So, in order to create a culture of winning, you must first win. The culture of Indiana recently, has not been associated with winning.

Second, we, as Hoosier fans, have a reason we are fans of this program. Whether it be that we appreciated the way the teams played, the winning associated with the program, the coach, we are alumni, it was the only thing on the crappy, three channel, 13' black-and-white tv, or we like what our parents or influencing adults like; there is a reason we root for the Hoosiers. When they do not perform the way we are used to or think they should, naturally, we want to project winning or a winning attittude towards the team. Therefore, in our culture, where instant gratification is expected, we have a knee-jerk reaction to what we perceive as weakness or less-than-desired outcome.

Third, we expect improvement and we want to look at the upcoming season as better than the one before. We look for any reason to be optimistic because we want so badly for that to be true. However, when unrealistic expectations meets unrealized potential, disappointment is the only reasonable outcome. Therefore, we need someone to blame when expectations are not met. Therefore, the "fire Crean" attitude from a select group of people.

Fourth, it is very easy to react to a game like Iowa, where the Hoosiers were actually favored, as an upset fan. It is always easier to remember the negative than the positive (except in the case of RMK for a lot of fans). The negatives stick with us better (especially for competitive people). Therefore, we respond negatively and have negative feelings toward the people we blame for the negative feelings. (No, JerryCT, I am not talking about you, your views are legit.)

Now, away from the psychology. I do not believe that most rational IU supporters feel the way the article descibes us. We are sometimes irrational, but we are realistic the next day. We look at the product on the floor and it does not resemble the one we grew close to (motion offense, strict man-to-man defense, tough and winning teams), and that bothers most of us.

I think, on one hand, that Coach Crean does not use his players' strengths well enough. He seems like he is trying to jam players that do not fit his system into his system. Like hammering the square peg into the round hole, hoping it will come out round. It seems as though TP especially has taken a step backward. On the other hand, I bet Caoch Crean feels like he needs to show future recruits that this is his style of play and it should be shown how they can fit into it. I like Coach Crean; he is full of energy and enthusiasm, and that is contagious. He has a plan that he believes will win and he sells that to everyone he meets.

I guess, all that was to say this: I support Coach Crean and I believe he will win here. I do not believe fans have anything to do with him being fired (although rich alumni....that's another story). I do not believe Fred Glass has unrealistic expectations of this situation, so I believe that regardless of tournament participation, Coach Crean will be our coach beyond the 2011 season and we will ultimately be ecstatic about that.

Thanks for the space.

This is a very good post and you said how I feel better than I could. You are so right about how easy it is to be negative. I believe!

Agreed BFOWLER....except for one thing of course.

With a player like Rivers and a deadly screener like Pritchard and guys who can pop like Jones, Dumes, Creek, Watford, Roth , Elston and Hulls why would you NOT run transition offense ...........ie I think Crean was in fact putting a round peg in a round hole.

Things have not been perfect along the way however and now he faces a round hole with an oval peg . If Crean has made a mistake I would say it was the overweighting of the dribble drive stuff when Hulls and even Rivers have more experience in a different offensive scheme

Just because someone posts that they dislike Coach isn't grounds for believing that he is a bad coach. Most students of basketball would say that Roy Williams at North Carolina is a great coach who has won a National Title and has won at least 1 game in the NCCA tournament in 20 consecutive seasons. Right now there are a lot of negative comments about his coaching abilities. His team is 13-7 and 2-3 in the ACC. Fans down there think NC should always be in the final four. He has a roster full of 5 star players and McDonald's all Americans. IU has no players with that kind of hype. So has Roy Williams lost his coaching skills?? His team is averaging 16.2 turnovers a game slightly higher than IU's 15.9. So can't he teach them fundamentals?? Can't he get his team to show up for games? These are crazy statements about a coach that has a 80% winning percentage. Now I am not saying that Tom Crean is a great coach like Roy Williams yet, but some day he may be. NC has team chemistry problems and young players but I am sure Roy Williams will get it fixed with TIME. My point is that here is a team with all the things these negative posters say IU needs and they are having a bad season by NC standards. If, Tom Crean, gets enough TIME to get a competitive team and can't compete to IU standards then I will be asking these accountability questions. This is really his first recruiting class and by the TIME they are Juniors and Seniors he should have a great team. It is way to early in his IU career for all this hate some of these folks are posting. He deserves a chance to fix the mess he was handed.

Well said Ron. I've thought of UNC several times this year in light of our situation and it offers a great perspective to those Hoosier fans who have lost sight of reality.

Crean needs a lot more time. It will take a lot of stomach to live through these next few years, but eventually things will be like they should.

Anyway, I heard from the newspaper that Crean threw his players out of the Locker Room after watching Iowa outrebound them on tape, and also threw them out of the gym for not being worthy to play there. Any truth to this?

Clearly Crean inherited a program that was in a stage of epic meltdown - far worse than most rebuilding jobs (read: Iowa). If he can finish this year with a record close to .500 (still a big if at this point) then I think you have to say he has made meaningful progress, especially given the loss of Creek for the season. The GPA improvement would also imply that we actually have student-athletes on the team now, and have hopefully upgraded the character level of the players in the program now.

That said, I would feel a lot better if I saw three things that I am don't feel like I am seeing today: 1) A clear identity for the team and program (ex: Wisconsin); 2) ongoing improvement in fundamentals relevant to said identity, and 3) consistently hard-nosed, fearless, high intensity play both on the road and at home. If he makes obvious, demonstrable progress in those 3 areas, I am much less concerned about whether or not we actually get into the tournament next year because in the long run we will have a "program" again.

it will be interesting to see how the team comes out with a week off on the road

I don't know if i can honestly say we will be a tournament team next year. Maybe the NIT but the B10 is much better than it's ever been lately. Can we honestly say to ourselves that with the players we have now and coming in the next 2 years, that we will be a tough out in March.

One thing that I have noticed is how well Iowa moves the ball in their half court sets. I have been watching them because they are dealing with the same problems as IU. Iowa is slow and undersized. Like us, they lack a lot of offensive weapons. They can't rely on someone to get hot and take over every game. What I see them doing is forcing the defense to play honest because of their constant motion offense and cuts. IU is a "run and gun" style offense or at least they try to be. Toooooo many times we get stuck with people standing around and goin one on one or chuckin up a last second 3. It's almost like they aren't moving with a purpose and are just palyin out of control, like in a pick up game.

I really think Crean should put in some motion sets and force the opposing team to actually play defense instead of bailing them out with a quick shot that puts us in horrible rebounding position. We will get better and I do have faith in Crean. However, it will take time. These are just some observations.

Please tell me if you agree or disagree

I agree . Sorry but this is going to be long winded but maybe my explanantion/opinion helps. Here is my sense of Crean's logic ( I have no basis to know if this is accurate ):

1. Kids want to play transition based offense, if we run this we can recruit better than Bo Ryan
2. We have a great on ball defender who can turn over the other team, he is also a great rebounder and can start the transition game with no needed outlet pass. He is our most experienced player

THEREFORE
3. lets be overweighted on the transition game of up tempo dribble drive type sets . This works pretty well when the defense is getting stops and rebounds and we get open shots early in the clock.
Defense of Crean: You would do the same if you had Rivers and the best screener in the B10, Pritchard

PROBLEM: We don't have Creek to finish, Roth to pop, and our defense is not as good as it needs to be and Rivers is struggling to finish to make this work. After the intial failed " quick hitter" in transition we struggle to get into the "secondary" offense and more often than not reset late in the clock w high ball screen and the dribble drive......again.

DILEMNA: Given we are half way through the season does he go back to the drawing board or change schemes ?

GOOD NEWS: Recently however , but only briefly , we showed a double high stack which I thought was the beginning of some Northwestern style motion offense. It is rare to see but we have it in the offense play set.

ILLINOIS GAME: I will be watching the game for any off ball screens by Pritchard to shake Watford/ Jones/Elston loose for a quick pop. If you see this then we are progressing toward a new weapon.

Like others I am not as interested in wins right now as I am in "progress" and " possibilities " for the future. Too bad that there are idiots posting on other sites that have no clue how difficult Crean's job is

Long winded ? A good post of an informed IU bball fan is almost never too long for this fan. Maybe this is just me trying to feel better about some of my late night just a little bit too long vent / get it off my chest ramblings. You put things out there that are fun to discuss and gives the knowledgable fan ( e.g. someone that does not just watch what is going on where the ball is ) some things to maybe pay a little more attention to when the next game is played. Not saying that I always agree with you or will agree with you about a certain aspect being discussed but I am not so petty that I can never think to myself hmmm JerryCT is right about that glad he put that out there. It makes it more fun after a win or a loss to bounce things off each other to see what others think.

I cannot comment on Iowa's style and half-court sets but I do agree that it would be a good thing to have the ability to set up some form of half-court sets (e.g. some pick and roll with VJ3 and Watford) that we could utilize, especially if the offense bogs down in the first 20 seconds of a possession. I've never really understood why a team does not have a set of plays that they can run in the last 15 seconds of the shot clock if for no other reason than to avoid the "Bracey Wright dribbles for 33 seconds and chucks a trey" offense.

I am looking forward to the ILL game. What kind of team will take the floor ? Is the 3 guard lineup scrapped ? Will Elston play well ? Dumes ? Any off ball screens ? Can TP and Capo stay in the game against Tisdale ?

Agree Jerry, IU is coming off a brutal loss, and has had a week to prepare. I expect the toughness the team showed in the Minnesota game.

It all depends on how we interpret "problematic" for Crean. Obviously there's already a growing group of people who are disgruntled with IU's up and down play the past two seasons and are clamoring for the ship to be righted. Now, if there isn't a decided increase in consistent success next season, then I think those voices will get even louder.

However, Crean's job won't be in jeopardy if the team misses the NCAA tournament next year. To imply that is laughable. People will moan and grown a little bit more, but the key is just seeing continued growth on a more consistent basis. This adminstration would not be that quick to pull the trigger on Crean before he gets a chance to get his first real recruiting class through four years.

So what is consistent success?

Let's see a winning streak next season. If I'm not mistaken, this team hasn't won three games in a row in the Crean era. That's a step this team needs to make. Let's have a winning non-conference record - no more duds against teams like Loyola. Finally, let's get near the .500 mark in the Big Ten by winning a vast majority of our home games.

If they take these realistic steps, then postseason play will become a reality - although it's more likely to be the NIT than the NCAA. Regardless, any postseason play next year would be a huge step forward.

Fans are nervous. I am nervous. I and many, think IU should show more consistent improvement this year. I don't expect to be back to winning most but at least competitive and wins still seem like they are more luck than skill.

I'm sure that IU's commitment to Football has not helped. IU basketball excuses and wait till next years get reminiscent of the excuses for never getting better in Football. IU Football failure is excepted and supported and we the fans don't want Basketball to follow that pattern!!! In fact, we don't want it in Football.

There's a reason some of the wins look more luck than skill, IU isn't good yet. We don't have the top-to-bottom talent to look good game in and game out and show consistent improvement. This is probably why I overly defend Crean right now, because I don't think this is his fault yet.

Not that I'm against constructive criticism, but we're criticizing a team because we're not happy with the improvement, when he's had one real recruiting class. I just don't know how to distinguish between we're not improving and the talent just isn't that good yet, you know what I mean?

It's tough to show improvement against the likes of Big Ten teams when you're at such a disadvantage experience and talent wise. Look at VJIII, he's arguably IU's best player and leader at the moment, as a sophomore. He wouldn't even start for MSU, Purdue or Ohio State, and most likely wouldn't for Minnesota or Wisconsin, yet he's our go-to-guy. He would have been an afterthought in recruiting for those schools, yet, along with Nick Williams, was IU's marquee recruit last year.

You hit the nail on the head, bingo, you are 100 % correct and all the other lines such as these. As is usually the case I agree with your post and it cut straight to the point in a no nonesense way.

Thanks IUMIKE1 those are kind words, and I also have noticed myself agreeing with your thoughts quite often as well. I just think we need to realize that, yes there are things Crean could possibly do better in-game at this point, but with the hand we've been dealt he's almost hamstrung. How can we tell what his real coaching tendencies are until he has a full squad.

I dont know I kind of liked the article. I think he made great points, the idea is that TC is in charge and its been an up and down season. Sure TC gets a free pass, but at the same time he is responsible for a horrible, horrible loss against Iowa at home and just a month earlier they beat a great Pitt team in NY (more of a home game for Pitt - this is where they play often). I think he is just trying to point out how that can be, how they can look so confident against a ranked opponent and look so bad against non ranked opponents at home!!! He got this one right, that one has got to be on the coach for not having his team prepared. IU could of had a three game winning streak, followed by a week of to prepare for Illinois. How do they blow that game???? I really think TC did a poor job of letting the team know exactly how they had to play, where they were at that particular time in the season, what that game meant, on and on. I really think he treated that game like any other, and with a young team you cant do that, so thats a bad sign for things to come if you ask me.

I do think there has been some improvements this year and I sure hope there are improvements next year. Then in 2012 we should be making the tourney. If we dont make the tourney by 2012 then I can understand people starting to get nervous. I also agree with someone that said "there is sooo much negativity in B-Town right now its pathetic." This is a bad omen, I'm telling you that if people breed negativity nothing is going to change, if they get behind TC and cheer for the team things will slowly turn around. Daily people are slamming TC for not being able to coach, wrong guy for the job, etc... I dont mind some responsibility, but come on -- calling for his job already???

I really feel that its up to the fans, will they run another coach out of town or do they treat Crean like there own???? Makes a big difference people.....

I think this might be a fairly large exageration. There are definitely rumblings from many IU fans in regards to all of the losses (etc...) again this season, but I haven't heard anyone call for CTC's head at all. Not from anyone with any basketball knowledge anyway. Granted I'm not down in Bloomington anymore, but one of my buddies is playing in a league down there and I also have some friends that are still students and none of them share this sentiment nor have they caught wind of it. People have absolutely been questioning some of his judgement at times, but look at what he has to work with this season. At this point its just silly to question whether or not people will run CTC out of town. Get real.

Here's some more exciting posts. These posts concentrate mainly on how TC cant coach after IU actually won a very exciting OT game against Minnesota. I grant you it was kind of ugly and it almost slipped away, but it didn't and a victory is a victory. Everyone should know that with this team victories aren't always going to be pretty. You will also view several other posts questioning why people get on here after a great win and continue to question the program, TC, and all these young players busting theirs butts. http://blogs.heraldtimesonline.com/iusp/?p=6578.... Do you need more? Because I think you need to get real and see how negative these fans are being right now toward CTC and the Indiana program. Hate breeds hate, if people continue to question TC in a negative way (I'm not talking about constructive criticism) this program will continue to struggle. Bad vibes equal bad results. Can you feel it??

Slice, when I read your first post, I perceived what you were saying is that there is “sooo much negativity in b-town” in regards to CTC. I’m pretty sure now that what you were referring to is the current state of Indiana Basketball, which sadly I think most people would agree with. In reference to the people that are slamming TC on a daily basis and saying that he is the wrong guy for the job, I’m glad that you posted those links because it exemplifies the type of “fans” that have been calling for his head. I’m aware that there are a handful of these types of people on the boards relentlessly trying to spark negativity, but the knowledgeable and/or optimistic fans far out weigh these posters and for the most part ignore these simple minded comments. As others have pointed out, most of these superficial posters frequent certain blogs more than others and in my opinion, a large part of the reason that the boo birds go unnoticed in our lives outside the internet is that most of us don’t interact with these type of “fans”. Just to reiterate what you stated, we all need to keep in mind that being critical of the players and coach is at times just part of being a fan and I don’t think that this equates to being negative, slamming CTC, or saying he isn’t fit for the job. I just think that even talking about the possibility of running Crean out of town at this point is very premature.

Get real, here you go. Read for yourself. http://blogs.heraldtimesonline.com/iusp/?p=6713.... Read SteveAlfords opinion. I am on these sites everyday. Inside the Hall, Hoosier scoop are the main sites I'm on. There have been a ton of posts saying TC is not the right guy, people didnt like him before he got here, he's nothing but a cheerleader. My point is this, Indiana fans are spoiled. Bob Knight is gone, we need to give TC 3 or 4 years to get this thing rolling. A year and a half in and I cant believe the things people are saying. Ive been following this all year, if you get on hear every other week you wont know whats being said. This is very real, there are several people that would be more than happy to see TC go which I cant understand. IU cant start over every other year. Weve got our guy and we need to stick with it.

I also have read the posts of the...........well I don't think they allow words like I am thinking right now to be posted, person that goes by the name of stevealford. His extreme negativity leads me to believe that this person is either a purdon't troll or simply an idiot either way it must really suck to be him. Something tells me that if he isn't a purdon't troll he probably has statues of Alford and Knight that he worhsips faithfully numerous times every day. Do all of us true IU fans a big favor stevealford please go away and never come back.

Yea no doubt, he definitely leads the charge when it comes to slams and negativity. He used to make me mad but I've honestly learned to ignore most all of what he says. What's funny is every now and again, theres someone who will agree with him. Heres another example, there is an article about J. Rivers achievements as a student athlete that somehow turns into a war of words between fans loving Bob Knight vs. fans that supposedly "worship" Tom Crean. This is exactly what I'm talking about, this kid is trying to be recognized for his achievements and people cant give him his do without arguing about how they like Crean but really will start hating him if they keep hearing too much "man love for him" or something. http://blogs.heraldtimesonline.com/iusp/?p=6776..., yet Casey is the one telling me to "get real". OK, sure thing wink, wink!!!!

Remembered that set of posts as soon as I read the first one and remembered thinking "what an a-hole" and pretty much it being a tie between being too pi$$ed off to type something in rebuttal to him and thinking that he is just not worth the time and energy it would take to do it. I bet he secretly watches and cheers for the Kantuckee pussycats.

Alex, good article and nice link. As long as we continue to make noticable and good numerical (wins) progress I say he is doing what it takes to warrant the approve stamp. GFDave makes a very good point about Creek and his injury which like it or not has to be factored into next year as we are just getting to the point where we have decent talent in our starters let alone having someone coming off the bench that can somewhat blunt the effect when something like what happened to Creek takes place. I think a person would be hard pressed to find a coach that truly believed he could have gotten more than 6 wins out of last years team. If we end up this year with wins in the 11 to 15 range then I believe that is making good progress because as many have said, including this fan, this is really the first rebuilding year. Making the NIT next year and possbily winning more than 1 game would be acceptable progress for that season in my opinion. Not making the big dance the year after that would be discouraging but not put me in the "kick him out and get a real coach" camp. Not making it to the big one the year after that and I have got alot of questons and concerns. We have to remember too that next year a big part of bringing someone into the game from the bench and expecting there to not be a bring drop off will be handled by once again freshman. Still yet another area to be rebuilt. How well we do in this area will play a big part in how much progress we make next year. I guess in a nutshell what I am saying is that with what Crean was handed he deserves a 5 year period to get us back to where we compete for B10 titles every year and we worry about how high of a seed we are in the big dance rather than if we are going to make the big dance.

Observations:

- Crean was the first to establish " Its Indiana " ......what is wrong with fans buying into it ?

- Crean uses "tradition" in recruiting etc .....what is wrong with fans repeating it ?

- Crean says we need 4 year players to establish "cohesion" and program identity...........then why would fans not give him the time..... like at least 4-5 years ?

- Crean says he is building a foundation first ......good players , good students, good facilities, good recruiting relationships etc .......I see no issues here especially 2 players from the Balt area is a good beginning

IMO there is nothing negative about the future and the coach........only the present. However if constructive criticism of the product on the floor right now is unacceptable then we are " BREATHING OUR OWN EXHAUST".........and as such we have no right to expect improvement becasue we are forced to see everything as wonderful ala Scarlet O'hara:

Without critical evaluation would we ever see:

- a mid range jumper from TP or Rivers ?
- 1/2 court offense that works better ?
- Hulls/ Creek / Jones better at man defense ?
- Screens from Elston/ Capo/ bawa ?
- ability to recruit a 5 star now and then ?

Lets get real..........crticism plays a valuable role in making us better.

This is exactly my point, there is a big difference in constructive criticism and people just slamming the program which I have read on several Indiana sites as of late. Be critical, fans have the right to, dont be negative --- that leads to losing coaches, games, and good people.

Right constructive criticism is great, and its what keeps things interesting. My only point on the tradition angle is I really don't think it works with recruits. Maybe local or some Indiana players buy in, but, as I said, there are a lot of schools with tradition and a lot that have more recent success. Two final four appearances in 20 something years isn't a great recent tradition.

Tradition needs to be a cherry on top, not the full the sundae. The sundae needs to be a tournament team every year, the shot at B10 championships, a great system for players to play in, great coach, national exposure and the chance to get to the NBA.

IU is getting there, but for fans to say why aren't we winning this is IU is delusional

Coop, I read your post all the time. I generally agree with the things you say. Im, RHF, Vslice, Real Hoosier Fan. I guess it depends on what day it is (my name that is). Its easy to be critical when we are losing. I think it was the Minnesota game, the morning after I got on Hoosier Scoop expecting some excited fans. Nope, nothing but a bash fest. I guess Crean cant catch a break even when we win. But yeah your right, its not all about tradition. There is a lot more to the equation. Honestly for the rest of this year, I dont care if we win another game, (though it would be nice) seriously. I want the team to be able to be in every game. Fight like a team thats hungry for a win, tired of losing. If they do that I will be a happy camper. If they do that, I guarantee you IU will win a few more games. If they hustle and heart isnt there in the second half of the big ten season, its gonna be a long, ugly couple of months. By the way, do you live in Florida?? If so, do you try to keep up on Will Sheehey and Yeguette?

One reason I donot read comments on other sites is that I usually find them ignorant and overly emotional. This is the great thing about this site and why I donate money to it. I actually donot recall a single post calling for Crean to be fired this year or next year or any future year.

In fact I would bet most of us are 1000% behind Crean in the long run and believe he is doing all the right things to build the program.

I spent alot of time and money going to Btwn for MD, PR for 3 losing games and NYC for Pitt.....yet I have criticized the floor product at times this year. I don't feel less a fan for doing so.

As for tradition , I think it is a useful tool as part of the IU "brand" we are trying to build. It plays to the HS coaches if not the kids...........and probably is the reason we even get on TV as much as we do.

I really think that this article -as well as the piece over FanHouse- brings to contention expectations that I was hoping never came to fruition in this fan base due to their unfair nature. The fact is, it makes us seem like Notre Dame football fans: we should win because of what the jersey says, not because of how we play. Expecting IU to make a run at the NCAA tourney next year is not only setting ourselves up for disappointment, but is also discounting Big Ten/NCAA talent. Like I have said before, if winning was easy and playing consistently was as simple as lacing ‘em up, every team would be good. Obviously, that’s not the case.

One side note that addresses Jerry’s post: This "consultant" idea seems a little premature. This is Crean's second season at the helm. The idea of brining in another coach for "fresh ideas" comes with the understanding that the system that Crean is running here is stale and has run its course. And that idea is, frankly, flawed due to the fact stated above: he's only been here two years and has yet to graduate a class of his own.

So, sit back, enjoy the ride. No matter how miserable it may feel after losing to a team like Iowa or how great it was to see them keep it together against Minnesota, there is going be one consistent theme for the next season or so and that will be inconsistency. But, in 4 or 5 years when IU has resumed its rightful place back at the top of the B10, we will appreciate even more what they are doing because of where we came from (-youre welcome for the cheesiness).

Nice article. Making the tourney next year would be shocking, making the NIT is probably a reasonable goal depending on the out of conference schedule. IU doesn't have anyone coming in with next year's class that makes this team 5-8 wins better unless a top guy comes to IU.

The team is being built slowly but surely, but as long as the team keeps progressing then Crean should stay. If IU doesn't start making the tournament by 2012 then its time to worry.

I'm so sick of hearing, its Indiana we should be winning blah blah blah. Time to join the modern world. IU has been largely irrelevant except for 2002. IU has had one good year since 1995. As I've said before IU has to bring in recruits on something besides "tradition" or "because its Indiana". A lot of other schools have tradition and have had better success recently.

The people posting the negativity on Crean and the current IU Basketball Team can best be described as in Knight's description of the past IU Athletic Department. (quote) "Don't know their ass from third Base"(unquote)

"Beginning in 2011, the next time Crean doesn’t make the NCAA Tournament will be very problematic. After all, it’s Indiana. We don’t do roller coaster seasons. We do Final Fours."

Give me a break. We have been to 2 Final fours in the last 23 years.

I always try to "criticize" the coach, if that is what you call it, by wondering out loud why we donot do things differently if we are not having success they way we are now. EXAMPLE:
off ball screens out of a high or low stack for Watford/Jones set by Pritchard. Rivers does not really need a high screen to elude his defender.

NOW my new idea: HIRE A CONSULTANT FOR 30 DAYS

Crean should hire a COACHING CONSULTANT for the next 30 days. He would work for CTC and his mission is to inject fresh thinking and analysis so that our coaching staff "does not breath its own exhaust". I reccommend Lute Olson, Dick Bennett, Tom Davis, Eddie Sutton ..........They would start with player evaluations and offensive and defensive schemes and then move on to recruiting, player development and scouting.

Coach Knight always always consulted with other coaches and at one point I believe actually hired Tates Locke . Personally I think Crean and theteam could benefit and can be sold as Crean doing whatever it takes to make a winning program

Hey Jerry! I think this a good point, but also comes under the category of, how do we know this isn't already happening? I'm pretty sure he hasn't hired an assistant, but I'm pretty sure he consults other coaches frequently.

Calipari mentioned just last week that he discusses coaching tactics with Crean a lot. And this is a guess on my part, but I'd guess Cal isn't the only coach that Crean consults with.

I think sometimes as fans we think some things aren't happening, but a lot of times they are, we just don't know about it. Another example is that a lot of people have been calling for Crean to be tougher on the players, then we hear this week that he locked the team out of Assembly Hall.

These types of things have probably been happening all the time, we just don't hear about it all.

Pretty sure he often talks with Izzo too. I'm sure after the MSU game/games Crean will ask for some input on where to go.

The fact is a great offense or defense on paper isn't good if you don't have the talent to run it. Crean has to implement his offense because the players are changing every 4 years. He has only recruited one class to play his offense. Sure he has to make adjustments for some players but he has to instill his philosophy and use that to show recruits how they will be playing.

Crean is doing a great job thus far. He stated early on he was behind the 2010 recruiting year, however he still pulled off two solid players that are an upgrade to the program. Recruiting will continue to improve as he's building relationships in Indiana but that takes time. We are not going to the NCAA post season next year and anyone who thinks that needs to put some more thought into it. Indiana has not been a consistant threat for well over a decade due to the assign choices our administration has made! You want IU to come back next year or the following for a post season NCAA run after running Knight out, chosing Mike Davis then following that up with Sampson??? Those three decisions cost our program at least 10 years!!!

Crean is not just rebuilding after Sampson, he's rebuiding after Knight, Davis and Sampson. We can all be critical of game time decisions which is fine but the Hoosier Nation needs a reality shot to the head if expectations continue to be this high so soon. Crean needs five years at least before we can test his time here.

I look at this two ways. I 100% agree with Alex that Crean needs and deserves time, I'm also in the camp that this is really year 1, not year 2.

With that said, even though I think he needs more time, I can already see the tea leaves shifting for Crean among Hoosier fans. In checking comments here, The Scoop and Hoosier Nation, I'm starting to see much more negativity towards Crean, and a lot of it is irrational. Maybe it's the vocal minority, but it seems pretty vocal.

So, yes he deserves more time and we need to be patient, but I think the reality is that it might not happen.

We seem to agree pretty often. Certain "fans" are always going to criticize because Knight is not coaching, or some other IU guy isn't coaching. Who they'd hire I have no idea.

I'm all for questioning and criticizing what goes wrong from game to game but I'm not ready to criticize the direction the team is going.

Crean has done his best to reach out to all the faithful and bring them back in to the loop. I think its wasted energy from here on out, its time to focus on coaching and recruiting. He shouldn't have to beg fans to show up, he shouldn't have to stay stick with us, etc. If you went to IU you should root for them, if you didn't go to IU then who cares what you think, Indiana resident or not.

I think its time for Crean to take the tact if you aren't with this team then get the hell out of the way

Agreed. 99.99% of IU grads would never switch their allegiance to another school. They might withhold dollars, or not by tickets, but they're never going to say "Oh, I follow Purdue now." This is the fundamental difference between being a "fan" and a grad. With grads its about family. I also know that there are many, many loyal fans out there that have earned their voice and who would never walk away from IU.

Funny, I was just about to comment on your post below that we often agree. I'm with you 100%. I'd love to have all the former players back and having a presence at IU, but it's time to focus on basketball and recruiting at this point. The best way to have former players and fans come back to the program is to win, not beg.

I also think constructive criticism is fine, but at the same time, I think it's hard to judge Crean's ingame coaching abilities when he's not playing with a full deck. I'm guessing his in-game coaching will be different when he has a full team of recruited scholarship players at his disposal.

No disrespect to Daniel Moore, the kid hustles his butt off, but right now when Crean wants to prove a point to someone like Rivers, Hulls or VJIII, his option is Moore, not exactly a suitable replacement at this level. In two years if someone like VJIII is messing around, he'll be able to go to Sheehey, VO, Ehtrington or Carlino to prove a point.

Things like this really affect his in-game decision IMO.

There is other Coach's that could have done much better but time is part of the answer. Iowa is a guage. We will see how good similar situation Iowa and Indiana are in 2 years. I predict the Hawks will have the best team and Indiana the most talent

If your Dad switched to Butler because they are winning and IU is losing then he was never an IU fan to start with

Yeah, as a life long Cubs fan, you have to be able to root for your team even during losing spells . . . or in the Cubs case, loosing centuries!!! But a real fan doesn't bolt at the first sign of trouble! Sounds like a RMK fan, not a HOOSIER fan.

he was a HUGE iu fan until the day they hired sampson.. i thought he was overreacting, but they always say your parents know best.. but this just goes to the fact that if IU doesnt get back to being a relavant team others will gain on what it took IU decades to build! i dont want to be like the moron with the name"stevealford" but the way IU ends this year and performs next year will be HUGE, and im rooting for the hoosiers!!

Something that bothers me about college sports are people who are "fans" of teams. I'm not a "fan" of IU. I'm an alum and IU is my alma mater. That's why I root for IU and always will even if they hire a cheat for a coach.

On the positive note, I was thinking how great it would be if next off-season we grab a top 20 recruit whether it be by regular means or transfer. If you think about it, with the class we have coming back, if we had a Wall or Cousins (yes, I will always hate you Kentucky) it would be a pretty good damn team.

On the other hand Alex, you give Crean credit for doing the things the right way and everyone respects that. At the moment, I'm more concerned with what offense we are running. I would also like to see a top 30 recruit coming in over the next two years. No one ITH has given a great answer to the "what offense we are running?" question. I too have high hopes for Crean but can't you admit you are a little puzzled sometimes when watching the Hoosiers?

Did I mention I hate Kentucky?

My two all time favorite teams, The Indiana Hoosiers........and anybody and I do mean anybody that happens to be playing the big blue slimers. Living in southern IN gives an IU fan another whole level of hatred for these cheaters.

Did I mention I hate Kentucky too.

I feel you. Livin in Corydon is hard these days. All of the Sudden everyone is a UK fan. I hate the fan base more than anything. And Coach Cal. What a Jerk.

I agree 100% with you Alex. I think the NIT for next year is a very doable goal, but to say that missing the NCAA would be problematic for Crean is absurd.

I want to express caution about expecting a lot from Creek next year. He almost certainly will play, but my observation is that coming back from significant knee injuries is a two year process. The first year is about doing the repair and rehabilitation. The second year is about regaining confidence, explosion and movement.

I just don't think Mo will be back 100% until either the second half of next season or the 2011-2012 season. I hope I am wrong, but I don' want to put a lot of hope into Creek's return and get disappointed with performances that don't meet expectation. I'd rather be pleasantly surprised.

Great point and duly noted in my post below. While I don't agree with your posts every single time they do always seem to be well thought out and to the point.

Thanks. Also, if we all agreed all the time it wouldn't be much fun.

Hey GFDave! Great point about Creek. I've noticed tons of fans glossing over "we'll have Creek back next year" like it's an afterthought and a certainty that he'll be 100%. As you said, he might not be back to full strength until 2011-2012.

That's the same injury that Blake Griffin suffered and what I like about the decision that Mo Creek and IU made is that they chose to immediately opt for the surgery and rehabilitation rather than wait it out like Griffin. Griffin actually suffered the broken kneecap during the preseason and then waited until a couple weeks ago to have the surgery and officially end his season. Hopefully that decision to fast track the surgery and think about Mo's future will help both him and IU early next year. Let's all hope!!!

Although the same injury, I believe Creek's was more severe. I don't know that for a fact.

I do agree getting him into surgery right away was a good move. Maybe Alex has info on this, but I think the big question about his return, and how effective he'll be right off the bat, is if there was any ligament/tendon damage or if was just the kneecap?

Hopefully he picks up right where he left off. I think sometimes we forget just how much this injury has impacted the development of this season.

You hit the nail on the head with this one Alex! It's all about making progress and getting that first one. First what, you ask? The first Big 10 win (Check). The first top 10 recruiting class (Check). The first win on a national stage on national television (Check). The first Big 10 road win (Check). Crean has done all of this already. Its all about progress, and thats what is happening IMO at Indiana right now. I am fine with a couple bad years if it means progress. The next step is getting to the tourney, because I have a feeling once we make it to that FIRST tournament, there won't be any turning back. IU will be restored. Until that moment comes, all we can do is support Crean and the players.

Look at the GREAT Karma we have heading into next year:
+ The whole team is coming back with another year under their belt.
+ Creek will hopefully be healthy
+ 2 new role player wings with Vic and Will to hopefully fill the Devin Dumes void
+ The new Basketball Development Center will hopefully be up and running, and that is Great for the program.
+ Jeremiah Rivers and Tom Pritchard will have jump shots (ok now i'm dreaming, but you get the point)

alex i really truly respect your opinions but i have to disagree with you here.. i think IU needs to make the tourney next year for a few reasons. first is to show the average IU fan and to basketball fans nationwide that he is indeed making strides to take IU to the level they are typically accustomed to seeing. while fan support has been wonderful, there still are empty seats all the time at assembly hall. my dad who introduced me to IU basketball has started to follow BUTLER wtf!! if we continue to be in "rebulding mode" IU will never regain their rightful place in college basketball and some fans who have been on the fence will no longer follow iu. second is for recruiting. how are we going to land a josh shelby type player if we havent shown that we have a decent chance of making a NCAA tournament run. i dont care if we dont land 5 star talent, because frankly i want guys who want to give at least a 3 year commitment, but we need players who can create some offense! last CTC needs to make it to the big dance for his sake and sanity! like you said CTC and IU are in this for the long haul. if hes not in the dance next year then when? if hes in year 5 of his contract and IU is a NCAA bubble team i am sure he will be wondering why he didnt stay at Marquette. all and all i love my hoosiers and i think they will have a decent shot at getting into the tourney next year, but i wont hold my breath!

Let those who are on the fence join another team's following. Why would Crean be worried about them? Expect progress, the right way. Not a miracle. IU is on there way. For the real fans, it's gonna be a hell of a ride. Remeber the movie Hoosiers? That is Indiana basketball. Climbing to the top, without taking shortcuts. Crean has to have a tournament bid next year? Wow. I thought they gave him 10 years for a reason. Get real. The Big Ten is back to its former self, and perhaps stronger than ever. There are many deserving teams out there, and this process is simply going to take time. I'm not counting them out next year. I'm just not going to say that Crean has to have it.

jsmith723 I think you missed a large concept in Hoosiers.

Did coach Dale say we are losing because we have Ollie and not Jimmy Chitwood playing at the beginning of the movie? Absolutely not. He coached plays, good defense, and fundamentals. When they got Jimmy '5 star' Chitwood halfway through the season, they were obviously better, but it was because he played within context of the team. It didn't turn into the Jimmy Chitwood show. THAT my friend is INDIANA BASKETBALL.

I see your point on if they want to jump shark and follow someone else then let them, but have to disagree. If it were just people who didn't like losing, then you would be right, but I feel (at the urging of the administration over the past 15 years no less) we have chosen to move away from the Hoosier Basketball pillars, and that these fans will be gone forever because they don't see us having what they know and love deep down. People are starting to lose interest because like was posted earlier, there are other in-state options now that play basketball the way most Indiana fans learned it in this state. This is a real concern because even if we get a 5-star recruit and are good for a year before he leaves, we HAVE to reload every year to stay good. Talent always helps, but it does not take 5-stars, it takes smart talented players working together as a team to win championsips. Not the next 5-star guard.

Now anyone who hasn't immediately started their backlash because they don't agree, I am not of the variety that thinks no one but Knight will do. I think that is ridiculous. I like CTC. I just think it is a relevant point to make that we are doing a complete 180 from what this program was built on in terms of offense, defense, and basketball knowledge/skills. I personally think there has to be some medium. There are a lot of stories and comments here about CTC being friends with and consulting Izzo at MSU. I think this is great, he is a good hybrid. He doesn't have all 5-star recruits, he develops people. Watch their film or games. You will see some games where they run like crazy and he lets kids 'just play' and create, but when necessary, he has the play put in and in his back pocket to run late in the game, or when they need a score to stop the run. WE DON'T. We don't even try. We give the ball late in the game when we are up and obviously going to be fouled to our worst foul shooter Rivers (Well worst of the guards anyway). This just is not smart in any way. No apologists can truly believe or come up with a good explanation for this move, or others like it that have taken place. This does not deal with youth or inexperience by the players.

I like Crean, I will always be a Hoosier fan, but I do think it is important to realize and empathize with what people are truly trying to say instead of trying to do what everyone seems to do on here and take sides of two camps. This is way to general and not everyone falls into the camps of either 100% backing and optimistic I want to sleep with Tom Crean he is God and Does no wrong... or the camp of Coach does nothing right, bring Knight back, we are failures if we aren't in the final 4 today! Realize there is a middle and there are causes for both being critical and optimistic.

jsmith723 sorry for posting this as a reply to you, it started as just that, but then turned into a personal feelings rant after reading the other comments on the page. This was not intended to blast you at all. I see where you are coming from, even if I don't agree 100%. Your Hoosiers reference was just too perfect to pass up as a window into making what I feel is a relevant point.

All hope is not lost because we are having a down year and CTC does need time as well as these young men, but the writing is on the wall that his offense is suspect and that anyone who claims we are getting the most out of what we already have is blinded by their excuses and love for a coach they hope can give them what they crave. Hopefully our Coach/Players/Team will all continue to progress and can come through with this restoration process. Even if they fail, Go Hoosiers!

Since I grew up in Hoagland and learned to play basketball there, I have to ask.... are you on drugs? I hardly learned anything from the crappy coaches we had in middle school. I learned way more from playing pick-up ball after wrestling practice or in games on the other side of town. Not to say that kids didn't learn to play decent ball there (at least I learned how to execute a pick and roll... Apparently hear in CA, that means you have great bball IQ), but Heritage High School's girls team usually could beat the boys team. Well, maybe you are part of that storied women's program... so maybe you are talking about that side of the Hoagland skill development.

That said, I agree with you that some people expect too much and others expect too little. I grew up in the little town of low expectations. I get it. That is why I got as far away from there as you can get and still be in America. I think you are underestimating what Coach Crean is doing (and not paying attention because I totally understand what offense they are supposed to be running and why they are not executing very well). Two of their best players are out injured and given the fact that Dumes is now some sort of team leader, I think you gotta give coach a break... and about 4 years to have enough depth to really compete at the top level consistently.

Hoagland is my name, not a town I grew up in. Sorry for the town of Hoagland's terrible basketball coaches. In most Indiana high schools, people who play in pick-up games after wrestiling practice do so because they got cut from the basketball team. I didn't play on a women's team, although our girls team was pretty good! In fact I was on a guys team that won a couple sectionals and lost in the regionals only to one of the famous Zeller boys in a close hard fought game. What do you expect we had no future D-1 players and our tallest kid was 6'4" yet we were able to not use the excuse that we needed more time to get some talented kids to our school district. We played as a team with what we had, even when people were injured. As for the drug use, I really want to pull out Clinton's 'I didn't inhale' but that would be a lie, I've NEVER done drugs in my life, although I appreciate your concern.

I see what you are saying though, however I think that you would find given 6 to 7 years at a couple of mill a year, most people could win with talent and depth like you are suggesting CTC be judged on. I think that while we aren't the deepest team ever, we have more than 5 guys who can contribute in a positive way RIGHT NOW and if used correctly are much better than our current record. In what other situation or capacity (job, game, anything) has it ever been this acceptable to simply say, well if you gave me the best of everything I'd be awesome, but until I get that, its okay to underperform. You would be questioned at your job for this, so why can't Crean be? The road goes both ways, we should give him time, but he should give us hope in the form of actual in game plays and results rather than so far hollow words.

Let's give Crean some time to be sure, but just because we are young and not too deep does not mean he has been perfect. A does not = B. I didn't expect us to be in the tourney this year, but I also expected us to play much better than we have most of the time. The few games we've got hot at the end, we have won, but this team is good enough to Win games, even in the B10, when they are having an off night is some form or another.

Completely agree with you peaychris. IU is quickly falling from national relevancy. Even more frightening is that we're falling from in-state relevancy. Many fans beginning to follow Butler and Purdue. Very sad....

Let them jump on the bandwagon then. They are not true Hoosier fans then and IMO they don't need to be. Things always get worse before they get better. Everyone sees what Cal has done at UK and expects that. Well that isn't Typical. We tried that with Sampson remember? And look what it got us. And look what Cal has gotten Memphis and Umass into. I think there is more to rebuilding the program then making the tournament now. There is alot of Pride at stake here.

Well said