One of my best friends plays for Fordham and he and Jio lived together. After the IU Pitt game Jio was real excited about IU, but soon after I was told Crean said that to him and he dropped IU off his list. Moral of the story; if Selby comes to IU he could quite possibly become a legend.

Just so you guys know, Jio Fontan crossed us off his list after IU being number one because Crean told him," He was close to signing an All-American point guard." On the other hand, all of you people who think Selby has to worry about playing time are ridicuous, Selby will wipe the floor with any other possible point guard competition he may see. Big Rivers fan, but hes not a point guard and like Hulls too, but he isn't in the same league as Selby. Selby's impact regardless if he is one and done will last way longer than his stay.

How do you know this? Link to the article if you have it. From what I've read he has picked USC but I haven't seen anything about what you wrote

What I mean by brand is just what it sounds like. "What a team is known for consistently year in and year out"

I would rather be embarrassed by a 20pt loss ( like Knight teams were at times ) than be consistently embarrassed off the court ( like Knights players did at times as well ) . As such my definition of a thug is color blind and economically blind . To me it means a kid with drug possessions ( Marcus Williams, Wiggins UCONN), beating up girlfriends ( Nate Miles UCONN ), stealing ( AJ Price UCONN ), bar fights ( Duquesne ) etc.

You will see by the post below how weak and fragile people get with their standards when winning is involved. We were on that road with Sampson

Obviously, I don't want players that abuse women on the team, nor do I condone theft or anything thing else. I'd be shocked if there aren't players on the team or any other team who don't smoke marijuana. I think its just a fact of today's sports, and it doesn't really bother me.

Clearly with the position Sampson put us in, Crean has to be selective with who he recruits. While many players can recover from a mistake its a risk and if Crean is to take one he has to take a calculated risk.

The great thing is Crean will be given the chance to build the program how he wants with the players he wants and he will either sink or swim. With his contract he isn't going anywhere anytime soon. I hope he is able to build IU back in to a top 20 team that plays exciting bball. Time will tell, though I think he is on the right track

Surely we can't be serious that we are so distraught we have not won an NCAA championship in Crean's 2nd year that we are calling for "lance stephenson aka Born Ready" and Mr. Cousins aka I will call my own plays and yell at Cal when he benches me..........Come on people if we are going down that route...there is a stud point guard out there looking for a school named Bud Mackey. Yes I am drinking the Crean Kool Aid cause it tastes good and I understand where this program was and is, and where he is going. It ain't a two year plan and guess what....Not a three year plan either.......didn't work for Mike Davis nor Denim Shirt, why not try it the 'right way'..... I want to win every year..... If you want to follow Cal's model with Memphis and KY...go for it.

Would you rather have Mo Creek or Born Ready?

No one expects IU to win a championship anytime in the near future. How can anyone say good or bad they know where the program is going? Sure it could get back to the top, but it may never get back there either. I like Crean but he hasn't proven he can build a consistent top 15 team.

I don't think anyone is calling for those exact two players, I believe they are examples of the talent you need to win consistently. You could replace those two with Xavier Henry and Derrick Favors.

Not sure I'd loop Davis with Sampson. Davis merely had the best season at IU in the last 20 years. Its not his fault he was offered the job and thats who the players wanted to play for. He can't really help it the fans didn't get behind him either for what ever reason. His run at IU was pretty consistent with what Knight did the last 5 years he was there. No one likes a coach following a legend. If IU had hired a big time coach then they never would have had this problem.

Cooper I understand clearly what you war saying even though I disagree....I think many IU fans have yet to accept IU is NOT IU anymore. Similar to Notre Dame.

+The truth is IU was not going to get that "I can build a winner consistently for 15 years" type of coach. We had very few 'big time' options. So it is either land a solid coach like crean who built a winner at Marquette or get a upstart coach from a mid major.....that was our choices.

+Those big time players we all want, one and done or not, want to go to the NCAA tourney sooner rather than later. Crean gets a HUGE amount of credit for bringing in the talent he got here this year and last year given.....the only thing he could gurantee those kids is a good education and playing time, and getting their asses kicked alot..... Try sitting down with Mo Creek and telling him about those things...yet getting him to sign.

+ Kyrie Irving was clear on why he eliminated IU, the kid and others want to win and go the tourney...NOW....this year we don't have that opportunity, next year it gets better but not expected, so it takes a "committed" type of player that wants to step in at IU and build something and make a difference

+ My point with davis was, he went for the big splash all the time, ignored in-state guys and it didn't work. Built no foundation, just go after J-Smoove, Lebron, etc and ended up with Marshal Strickland to build around......

I cannot stress enough.....we didn't have a lot of choices in players or coaches. Unless someone wants to tell me who we should have gotten? Did we want Cal, Brownell, Dakich, Mike Montgomory? Take your pick...I pick Crean.

CREAN DIDN'T GET MO CREEK AND CHRISTIAN WATFORD, Roshown Mcleod landed them because he had family ties with Mo Creek and he had a relationshop with Christian from when he recruited DJ White. I would take Cal and I guarentee he would turn this program around. Why do people care so much about the graduation rate? If youre a great team odds are your graduation rate will be low because every year you have guys leaving to go to the NBA. What satisfaction do you get as an alumni if Player X wins 15 games a year at a school but after 4 years he graduates in Family Studies. It's a new era people, get with the times.

I am convinced you may not be aware of Indiana's basketball tradition or recent history based on the "I would take Cal...." statement....

+ Would you really take Cal after IU took Kelvin Sampson and his sanctions? Seriously...do you want the program to survive????
+ For your love for Cal, keep in mind Cal, Crean, Myself, and Santa Claus have all won the same amount of national titles.
+ Graduation Rates are important as they could cost you scholarships
+ Cal has proven ...the Cal way does not work, all it has produced are wins, sanctions for schools, a few NBA guards, and large contracts for Cal.....
+ Derrick Rose, Tyreke Evans, and Jon Wall ALL would be NBA players if they went to North Carolina Central State....

What Cal has proved is he can make any team a national championship contender. In one year he has made a UK team that lost to ND in the NIT, the #3 team in the nation overnight by being able to recruit the studs you need to win. Everytime Cal has gotten a slap on the wrist, he hasnt been found guilty, that's why he is still able to coach. Why not let him come to Indiana, could things honestly be worse than they are right now? I want Crean to win more than anything and I go to the games and cheer my heart out. I just cant stand when he justifies unexcusable losses. The Pitt win was great, I just wish that wasnt IU's biggest win in the last 45 games.

Cal was able to make such a dramatic change this year at Kentucky in part because the SEC doesn't have rules prohibiting oversigning like the Big Ten does. In this conference, you can only recruit one more spot than you have available scholarships - there's no such restriction in the SEC. Cal was able to significantly over commit for his first recruiting class, (by about 4 - 6 spots, if I recall), and then held team practices that were essentially open tryouts to see who he was going to keep or get rid of. Again, this was an option that was not allowed to the same extent in the Big Ten.

Now, had Cal been brought in after Sampson got fired, who's to say he would have been more successful. IU was a program facing an uncertain future with NCAA sanctions. Additionally, IU needed the new coach to server the remainder of Sampson's sentence for reduced recruiting contacts and allowable travel dates, which was going to last for another year after the hire date. Would Cal have been able to pull in recruits under the same circumstances? Would he have even wanted to try, since he was about to add Derrick Rose to his team at Memphis? Or, would he have tried to keep the Sampsonites (Holman, Thomas, Ellis, Bassett, etc) together, and try to reign in the drug and attitude issues, but also slow down his ability to turn the roster over, with the Big Ten oversigning limits. Whatever the route, I can't imagine that any option he would have taken would have been appreciably better, and would have come with more public/media/NCAA scrutiny, given Cal's reputation.

Finally, you ask what's the worst that could possibly happen, note the distinction you make - Cal never gets in trouble, but someone is always left holding the bag, and in both cases with Cal, it's the institution. So, lets say had he been the one to replace Sampson, just for arguments sake. Unless you're also making the switch to root for John Calipari University, that means the next sign of trouble, were he here, IU would be left holding the bag. Now, IU already went through the wringer with the mess Kelvin Sampson left us, and got off without major penalties because we self reported, and had a good past track record. If Cal followed his pattern of "win-big-but-someone-related-to-the-program-gets-in-trouble-and-brings-NCAA-sanctions," what are the odds that the NCAA would be lenient with us? At that point, we would have hired two coaches whose tenures led to violations.

Bennie Seltzer was the primary recruiter on Watford.

Any pickup by the coaching staff is a pickup for Crean. He is the headcoach, and he put the others together to help with recruiting, coaching, etc. Creek and Watford knew who the headcoach was when they signed, so I think we should give Crean some credit.

Also, how can you fault Crean for having his assistants find talent then praise Cal who using World Wide Wes to get much of his talent? NEVER give me a coach that has been erased from history at 2 different schools. I don't want to get excited about a good run only to have it all erased and the coach leave to do the same at another school.

One of your best posts Mr Kelin !

Moreover I want us to develop a "brand" that carries over from whoever is coach now. My "brand " candidate is mostly all of what I see Crean doing ie no thugs, high graduation etc. As far as play on the floor I would rather see alot , I mean ALOT more defense in our brand

THanks Jerry....It has taken me some time to see where Crean, this program, and this team is headed but I like what he is doing. I don't forget that magical year with EJ where we discussed suspensions, grades, drugs, players weight, phone calls.....more than we discussed basketball. IU is now at the point we can talk basketball and recruiting....and I love it.

This team this year will be up and down and up and down....Beat Pitt, Play a half with Ky, lose to Loyola Md. .......Beat a OSU or Michican, get throttled by someone else.....

I can see some defensive brand building....where I have heard Crean talk alot about getting deflections and causing turnovers...which is how we got back into the game the other night. With Oladipo coming and sheehey, those are two rebounding wings and Oladipo is apparently a in your face defender.....but we do have a ways to go...

I don't think we really disagree as much as we look at it differently.

I agree with that part of what you say about Davis. As I've mentioned before I'm an IU grad from outside Indiana so while I don't really care if players are from Indiana I also understand the need to lock down the borders when an impact player is there. I just wasn't clear on exactly how you were looping him in with Sampson.

I also agree that IU couldn't have gotten a top 15 guy, unless they wanted Calipari. Again, my point was not Crean can't build a top 15 team, just that he hasn't consistently done it yet, so none of us know if he will or not. Too many people believe because its Indiana eventually IU will be back, which we both agree is not the case.

Same as we don't know what type of recruiting classes he will consistently bring in. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt at Marquette but he will have to prove it.

As far as building a "brand" I'm not sure what that means. Saying no "thugs" and a high graduation rate is more for the fans than the prospective players. I never really like the term thug because I don't know what it really means? Too often its used as a way of describing inner city kids which I don't think is right. (I'm not saying thats how you are using it, I have no idea which is my point)

As someone mentioned, high graduation rate is a double edge sword because it also means you don't have players good enough to go pro early. I still don't think you can win a championship without at least one NBA player who can take the leap early.

I also agree and thought IU would and will continue over the next couple of years to lose games they shouldn't and maybe pull off a couple they shouldn't.

Pretty Impressive. I saw 2 assists and 2 jumpers out of approx 50 highlights. Is that to say that he is going to be any better than Steve Hart? Show me a little range and FT % and I will be impressed. We need Bigs!

Selby is the sort of athlete we need, but probably won't be able to attract until 2011 or 2012, and that's only if Creek and Watford show some improvement. The two of them, Elston, and possibly Hulls, should begin to look like a very solid core of players next year. He could come in, start immediately, be our go-to player down the stretch, and make everyone around him better. It's ludicrous to think that IU would keep him from ascending to the NBA after one year. Creek was the highest scoring freshman in the nation before last night's aberration. Selby would get all the shots he could ever want playing for IU, and would no doubt be adored by our fanbase.

If Selby came, he'd be the man, for sure, and I think he could take us to the NCAA tournament. A talented point guard would help clean up our two biggest problem areas: turnovers and shot selection.

I doubt we get him, but, so long as he doesn't go to Kentucky, I'll be excited to watch him next year. He certainly appears to be a highly talented, very athletic guard.

The only way IU get Josh Selby is on the basis of Coach Crean all out coaching... with Josh mother attitude and commitment to make her son a BETTER person not athlete. He is AUTO NBA material.

Maybe Selby will read all these comments then scratch us off his list since it's apparent no one thinks he'll come anyway. I remain optimistic and it ain't over till it's over. Come on to B'town Josh. You'll be loved and stay as long as you like. I for one want you in Cream & Crimson. Don't worry about playing time. If you can hit free throws, you'll get plenty of pt and right now I see no problem with you starting over VJIII and Hulls and if you hit free throws you can take Rivers' place. With Mo at one guard and you at the other, Watford at forward, IU can do something it hasn't done in awhile, have three real athletes in the starting lineup together. Imagine the possibilities and how 17,000 will go absolutely nuts every game. Heck, 17,000 go nuts now and we're 5-6!

Just drop us from the list and stop F'ing with us. He is the athlete we need but we don't run the offense or have the "team" talent that he needs to be a one and done like he wants to be. The team really needs that 6'8+ physical and talented beast (like Cousins and Stephenson) to play the 5 for us and that may help lure him to IU.

If for some extremely add reason we get him...Move over Rivers (unless we can pull Austin from UF) or VJ3.

Just a point of information, Stephenson is not a 6'8"+ center, he's a 6'5" guard. Sure it'd be great to get Cousins or Stephenson, but Crean is in no position to recruit guys like them. They simply are too big a risk off the court and in the classroom. Our APR can't afford it.

It sure seems like Cousins and Stephenson are really hurting the reputation of their colleges. The one and dones aka the great players arent on campus grounds long enough to hurt the school. Crean needs to quit worrying about 10 out 12 guys getting a 3.0 and start worrying about winning basketball games against bad competition. Did these guys on the roster now get academic or athletic scholarships?

It's a risk/reward type situation. There is a reason Stephenson didn't commit to a school until mid-summer, no coach would touch him, not Crean not anyone. And to say they do not hurt the school is just ignorant on your part. The APR score is given annually and a school loses points when a player gets bad grades and does not graduate which neither Cousins or Stephenson will graduate. IU has a very low score right now and as a consequence have lost scholarships. If we were to sign players like this then we would lose scholarships. If you know anything about this program you would know scollies are at a premium and getting some taken away unnecessarily is the last thing we need. So yes those players will eventually hurt those schools to answer your question.

So you would rather use the scholarships on kids like Tijan Jobe? We might as well give that scholarship away. I'd rather use my limited scholarships on kids that can help me win, if that is ignorant so be it. Losing hurts the school a lot more there is a reason assembly hall isnt full and people arent watching the games its cause the team is god awful and there isnt help on the way. The only thing Crean is accomplishing in Btown right now is convincing the fans that its gonna take years to overcome this hole we were put him, he justifies every loss just listen to him its pathetic. I am personally sick of it and as a student at IU who spends 240 dollars for season tickets I'd like to see a team that can beat the likes of Loyola md, Boston University, who was Daniel Moores only scholarship offer, and George Mason. So give me kids that will win, Memphis seems to be doing fine and I'm sure they have a great APR. Give me a break and quit drinking Creans kool-ade man

+So who would you like to Coach IU then? Keep in mind your choices Dan Dakich, Crean, Mike Montgomory, Brad Brownell, Randy Wittman, Lon Kruger. Take your pick....

+ Name one coach that two years into rebuilding a program in IU's situtation will compete for a national championship? Keep in mind....85% of your team quit, kicked off, flunked out, or dismissed and you are hired late in the recruiting season.....

+Memphis plays in a conference with Perry Meridian, Connersville, and local rec league teams, they have no one to compete and recruit against. Like it or not, Memphis had the benefit of World Wide Wes.....

Memphis graduation rate in 2007....40% (national average was 61%) No thanks.

haha if you were following the team 2 summers ago you'd know we had to get a Tijan Jobe. We had two guys overs 6'8" Tijan was a chance we were all willing to make. This team is young and they're learning give them a break. We're in this era of instant gratification, not all things come instantly. The Memphis situation is completely differnt Pastner has been recruiting these players since they were in 8th grade and had great relationships with all those players. Let Crean make his moves. He is in great position to land some major recruits in 2011 or 2012. Wait till those years past before you start attacking his prowess as a recruiter. He got the class we needed last year in '09. Let's give him some credit for that and let him build the program before you judge.

To play devil's advocate, your comment on Pastner doesn't make sense. If he was recruiting this kids since 8th grade, why wasn't Crean, or Seltzer or whomever? Crean has been a lot more established than Pastner so he should've been trying to develop those relationships. Pastner started at Arizona so its not like he was recruiting from Memphis the entire time.

The truth is Pastner is just an unbelievable recruiter who players identify with. Now he has to show if he can actually coach.

That was my mistake I thought Pastner had been at Memphis longer than just 08-09. Though I do believe it helps when an assistant/recruiting coordinator is appointed head coach and those players who have a relationship with that coach and school together versus the turnover of going to another school as we see with Crean. I also think that Memphis being such a prominent national program in the past 5 years is a major reason Pastner has done so well recruiting. Look at their results in sending top talent to the NBA over that time period, it is almost unmatched. It is a much easier sell to say come here play for a year then go to the NBA for some recruits than Crean saying come here help us build this program back to prominence. Two different pitches and different players will fall for different ones.

Very true. Lets drop the charade they are students first. I haven't heard any problems from Cousins or Stephenson this year. If I wanted a team full of great students I'd root for Harvard

Have you watched Kentucky this year? Cousins is not a player we want to be a part of our program. He sits on the sideline and pouts and has an attitude towards authority (Calipari frequently sits him due to this). I'm sorry but if people are looking for examples of players they wish Crean had at IU Cousins is not one of them.

Crean is building a program at IU that has integrity and class. If he would've signed Stephenson he would've been run out of town by many in the IU fan base. We don't sign players arrested for sexual abuse, sorry it's just not part of our program.

Reminder .....Sheehey comes on tonite on ESPNU.....not sure if he plays the early or late game.....Hopefully he can give us hope.....

Actually, I don't believe Sagemont plays tonight. Right now Montverde Academy and St. Benedicts are playing. And the late game features Austin Rivers Winter Park vs. Paterson Catholic. Sheehey played last night and got beat 54 to 51.

Yeah I agree with everyone else... I just don't see any way this kid is coming to Bloomington. Its nice that he's considering us, but there's just no way its happening.

All I want to know is if he can shoot free throws. Thats it.

After last nights game I don't see too many one and doners looking IU's way. IU is still 2-3 years from being a tournament team unless Oladipo and Sheehy are above expectations. Oladipo only scoring 2 pts his last game doesn't exactly bode well (unless he got hurt or something else happened). I never thought Selby would come and I sure don't think he will now. It would be a recruiting victory if he doesn't go to a school on IU's schedule next year.

I still can't come to grips with the game last night, Crean got his signature win, I sure hope last night doesn't become his signature loss. Easily the worst loss he has had since being here

Where did you find a stat sheet or box score that shows he only had 2 points? I can't find it. All I see is that he is one of the returning stars on a #7 national ranked high school according to ESPN.
Maybe he just had a bad game or was sick. I did see that his school record was 8-0 and they had
blown some schools out so maybe he was rested that game. I hear these kind or negative spins on future players but one game does not mean a kid is a bad recruit. I have heard this on other
places so maybe you heard it too. If it is true how did he do in the other 7 games?

look at the season stats. he isn't exactly lighting up HS basketball. from the game stats for the season he looks like the 4 or 5th option on the team.

He had a couple decent games, but I remember when he signed that the knock on him was that he was raw (love that word) offensively but he's pretty much shutdown defensively...

Just looked up the stats from the Palm City Classic where Sagemont was playing and went 2-2. Sheehey looks like he had a big week against the some of the best high school teams. He averaged 17.5 points and 8.5 rebounds a game playing along side a top20 player on rivals, and the team averaged just under 60 ppg. A few other things that stood out:
- 7:19 assists to turnovers
- 0-10 on 3-pt fg's.
+ 16-21 on FT's

He looks like someone who can play at the end of games.

Here is the link for the game where he scored two points:

http://projects.washingtonpost.com/hss/scores/b...

It seems to me that this team is not a seasoned crew BUT buy this time of year, they should not be dismantled like a set of cheap legos!!!

Whew ! I am glad we changed the subject from last night's game.

Maybe Crean can tell Selby that losing to his local Loyola was on purpose just to show how much we need him..............losing last night's game could not have helped us in the Balt area

Alex---

Is there a reason you have chosen to tease us two days before Christmas? Geez.....Hopefully Crean can tell Selby what he didn't tell KI to get him on campus.....Maybe Victor O can help out....

IU gets teague before we get Selby my prediction

I agree. Don't see anyway Selby comes to IU. Not with Rivers here for another year and Hulls waiting in the wing. If Brandon Knight commits to either KU or UK, I think Selby will cross that school off his list. But, what is going on with Teague? Haven't really heard anything about his recruitment or Pike to this point. You would think he would commit so he could focus on his high school team.

Rivers is a senior this year.

I'm pretty sure he's a junior my man. 2 years at G-town, sat out a year, 2 years left.

He has another year of eligibility after this year because he had to sit out last year due to NCAA transfer rules.

But Rivers has another year because he sat out last year.