Open Thread: Discuss the 2012-2013 rotation

  • 08/13/2012 8:47 am in

One of the more interesting open threads we’ve had over the last two offseasons on Inside the Hall is our poll on who will comprise the rotation for the upcoming season.

Two years ago, the idea was born after comments by Tom Crean stating that when he spoke with several of his players, most of them had Guy-Marc Michel in their top eight for the 2010-2011 rotation. A lot can happen between now and the beginning of practice, as evidenced two years ago with Marc-Michel who never played a game for the Hoosiers.

Last year, nearly 200 of you chimed in with your thoughts on a team that ended up in the Sweet 16 after being picked by most to finish in the bottom half of the Big Ten.

We’ll once again change the questions slightly this season, but here are two to ponder: With four of five starters returning and a highly ranked recruiting class arriving, how many players do you expect to average more than ten minutes per game? (Note: There were eight last season.)

And second, which five players will start the first Big Ten game?

Happy Monday, friends.

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  • cbags05

    It’s fun to speculate. But after thinking for a while…I think this is the year we find out how good of a coach CTC is.

  • 323SGrant

    Starters:
    Yogi – remember, he played AAU with Zeller and they have good chemistry
    Hulls – Excellent shooter with range
    Oladipo – need his quickness for offense and defense
    Watford – Good FG and FT shooter
    Zeller – Hate to see him leave after two years
    Sheehey – strong 6th man
    Creek, Hollowell, Remy, Perea, Patterson, Jurkin, Elston, Etherington – all very good players. What a team!

  • iufan4life10

    I wouldn’t be surprised by that lineup but could you imagine the mindset of opponents? Okay, finally they are bringing in their backup point guard and a backup post player they can’t possibly be faster. Wow, okay their backup point guard is faster than their starting point guard.

  • Kelin Blab

    When I think of a shooting guard, I don’t think of Hulls.

  • Geoff_85

    Here’s a shocking admission of stupidity…I actually meant to say Peter Jurkin, not Hanner Perea. Just got back and I’m like WTF was going through my mind??? Sorry for the confusion, but what are people’s thoughts on PETER JURKIN getting 6th or 7th man minutes and starting a few games?

  • NC Hoosier

    Except sheehey should get more minutes this year..

  • Geoff_85

    That sucks, but I think you’re right Kelin. He’ll demand a starting spot in 2013 with his play this year I bet, though. I’m very excited about seeing him on the floor. I already feel bad for the small schools that Indiana’s second unit is going to destroy. If I see Zeller late in some of those games, I might faint. I remember the coaching staff keeping him in much longer than I wanted, especially with some of the cheap shots he was taking.

  • INUnivHoosier

    The only reason I see Elston starting the first game of the year is he seems to be taking a major role in the leadership department. He also has the physicality and he can put up numbers on offense. He should also be healthy for a change. (Plus everyone else is picking the obvious – I want to go out on a limb.

  • VerdellJonesIV

    Upvote for username

  • INUnivHoosier

    Imagine a lineup with CZ, PJ or HP, CWat, Hollowel, Abell. Matchup nightmare that could really mess up a gameplan for a few minutes. Then Yogi, Oladipo, Sheehey come back in for a new look and new set of problems.

  • jharpe

    PG Yogi (20 mins), Jordy (20 mins), Remy (5 mins)
    SG Victor (25 mins), Creek (10 mins), Patterson (3 mins)
    SF Sheehey (25 mins), Hollowell (10 mins), Etherington (2 mins)
    PF Watford (25 mins), Elston (10 mins), Perea (10 mins)
    C Zeller (30 mins), Jurkin (5 mins)
    I think this is what the lineup should be, with the first unit commin in and runnin the opponent to death, then once the other team is tried and getting sloppy you bring in jordy creek and hollowell to go with cwat and zeller to blow the lead open with superior 3point shooting.

  • Everyone forgets how bad this team needed a ball handler and defender at the point. The play at this position put most of the L’s on the schedule. Yogi will start along with Cody. The rest who knows.

  • CreamandCrimson

    I agree with several of the comments left on here. Obviously there are no “wrong” answers or theories to this question because these are just opinions and the only opinion that matters is the one CTC has.

    However, in my opinion, there is absolutely no way Jeremy Hollowell or Hanner Perea will be ready to take significant minutes/a starting spot away from Christian Watford at any point during this season. Hollowell was a very good, not great, high school player last season. Perea was a raw, very athletic high school player. Watford was a very good, not great college player who helped us get to the Sweet 16. I just don’t see how anyone can think Watford won’t be starting.

    Moving on…I think seven guys get 10+ minutes per game.
    -Yogi, Hulls, Victor, Sheehey, Watford, Zeller and Hollowell (because of his ability to play the 3 or the 4).

    -I think a 4 or 5 more players will have quite a few games where they play significant minutes and they will be part of a rotation but they won’t average 10 minutes a game. Those players include Elston, Perea, Jurkin, Remy, Creek, Patterson and AE.

  • marcusgresham

    Elston 55.2% (16-29)
    Roth 54.5% (42-77)
    Hulls 49.3% (72-146)
    Watford 43.7% (52-119)

  • Dumbfounded

    It still amazes me how many people know what’s best for the team and that CTC “must” start the best player at each position to be a national title contender leaving Hulls out of it from a lot of your points of view.

    There is nearly a 0% chance Hulls does not start, or that he doesn’t average more minutes than everyone on the team, except maybe Zeller. Yogi will play a lot of minutes but don’t see him overtaking Hulls in total minutes played. We keep putting too much emphasis by position. “Hulls is not a point guard, Yogi is the natural point, etc.” If we’ve learned anything from CTC, it’s that traditional positions really don’t matter, the ball will be in Hulls hands, Yogi’s hands, Watfords hands, etc.

  • achurt

    If Perea or Jurkin can play at all as freshmen – Elston’s minutes should dip. Do you honestly feel comfortable with Elston on the floor?
    (I hope I’m wrong and he finally breaks out of his shell this year – the kid has some talent hiding in there)

  • stevetodd73

    Good stuff!

  • Hoosier_DC

    Hulls averaged 30 min/game last year. He led the team in minutes. He may not start every game but he will get his minutes

  • IndianaBall

    Has anybody listened to Crean’s recent radio interview in which he states the most important key to improving defense is keeping the opponent from penetrating without having to help. Hulls can’t kept ANYBODY in front of him. He is our worst defender. He is also our worst rebounder due to his size.

    Crean also mentioned how we will be using switching defenses a whole lot more. Remember Watford/Sheehey/Oladipo all switching a ton late in the season. Hulls can’t switch on to forwards, he can’t even guard guards.

    Also, Hulls is really slow. So if Crean is serious about not letting other teams take away our speed and that Yogi changes the gears this team can play at as he has stated on Twitter, then Hulls is just slowing us down and the less we need him in the line-up, the better.

    Now Hulls is our best shooter, and he has surprised me in the past, but go back to the VCU game, Crean had to get him off the floor for us to win. Abell finished the game, not Hulls.

    Hulls might start against the early cupcakes, but our starting line-up against real teams will be

    Yogi
    Oladipo
    Sheehey
    Watford
    Zeller

    Hulls, Abell, Elston and Jurkin will all average over ten minutes.
    Possibly Etherington and Perea but don’t hold your breath for Hollowell or Patterson. They have a lot to learn about the system and Etherington is far undervalued.

    We will press and switch a lot which will help provide minutes for our bench.

    We will also be the best fast break team in college basketball in a long, long time.’

    I will be shocked if we don’t beat every tournament opponent by double digits.

  • It seems like you have some insight. Please ask your “several friends that work at Cook Hall” if they know anything about Creek?? Is he participating in scrimmages? Rehabbing only? Do tell! Do tell!

  • so hornsby

    Yogi, Hulls, Oladipo, Cwat, Zeller
    By the end of the year:
    Yogi, Oladipo, Watford, Parea, Zeller
    I think Hanner really comes on strong and has a Tyrus Thomas-like impact

  • Starter: In order of rotations and/or Bench:
    Yogi-PG PG’s-Hulls, Remy
    Hulls-SG SG’s- Sheehey, Creek, Ron Patt, Austin Eth.
    Vic-Swing G 3/Swing- Sheehey, J Hollowell, C Wat
    C Wat-PF 4/PF- Elston, Hanner, Hollowell
    Zelelr-C 5- Jurkin,Hanner C Wat.
    that is crazy Depth, If the Freshman play up to a high level then the bench cold be in waves and they will take over that extra 15 mins a game for sure, But other then Hanner, and maybe Patterson for D, wont see much to much time this yr!

  • most talented CZ, Cwat, HP, Mo, Yogi – pretty amazing athleticism and speed; However talent does not usually win games alone and I suspect at the beginning of B10 – CZ, CWat, VO, Yogi, with Hulls or Mo. Sheehey will be right there as well.

  • hoosierdaddynow

    Methinks that Remy is a real point guard. Point conceded, however, that Yogi > Remy.

  • hoosierdaddynow

    Methinks that Remy is a real point guard. Point conceded, however, that Yogi > Remy.

  • This is correct, we don’t want 2 short guys out there at the same time.

    Jordy played 30.1 minutes a game last year. Let’s assume it is scaled back a little bit & he plays 25 minutes a game…and let’s just throw out 25 minutes a game for Yogi. If Creen does his substituting judiciously, in theory, you can limit the time that Yogi & Jordy on the court together to only 10 minutes total.

    So, of the 40 PG minutes:
    25 – Yogi
    15 – Jordy
    (Jordy’s other 10 would be spent at the SG while Yogi is PG)

    This would limit the defensive liability of having 2 short guys out that at once. Does this mean one of them would have to start on the bench…probably. I like the idea of Oladipo playing some point, especially when Yogi is on the bench.

  • calbert40

    I believe that 8 players will average 10 minutes per game; however, I believe that as many as 12 players will play that many minutes in any one game during the season. This team is extremely deep, and I think the end of the rotation may change due to different circumstances. I think against bigger teams like Wisky, you may see players like Perea and Jurkin log more minutes at the expense of guards like Buss and Remy.

    The starting 5 for the first game in the B1G:
    PG Yogi
    SG Jordy
    SF Oladipo
    PF Watford
    C Zeller

  • IndianaBall

    Why does everyone insist we have a starting line-up with our two smallest players, one of which is also our worst defender?

  • IndianaBall

    Why does everyone insist we have a starting line-up with our two smallest players, one of which is also our worst defender?

  • calbert40

    For extra credit: the 8 players I think will log 10 minutes per game are Yogi, Jordy, Victor, CWat, Zeller, Hollowell, Will and Elston. Just missing the 10 per game cut will be Remy and Perea. Buss, AE and Jurkin getting the mop up minutes this year. If Mo can play this year, I think he is in the group with Remy and Perea: getting time each game, but not necessarily significant minutes.

  • IndianaBall

    I completely agree. As much as we all love Hulls, he just isn’t going to grow several inches or get a bunch quicker. And let us not forget Abell is a true PG and has improved as much as anyone this off season.

    Crean wants this team at 100 mph ALL THE TIME! Abell = speed. Yogi = speed. Oladipo = speed. Hulls does not.

    He will still play a lot to stretch the floor, but he is also our worst defender. So when Crean says switching defense, it means Hulls on the bench.

  • bloyd88

    I feel like the starters will be 1.Yogi 2.Hulls/Vic 3.Will 4.Watford 5.Zeller. The 2 guard depending on what the other team starts as far as size. I think Elston, Remy, Jeremy and Ron get good quality minutes off the bench. I don’t see Jurkin and Hanner getting much time unless they have really improved since the last time I saw them play, both of these two are so raw but so so athletic. The games to start the season will really help those two out. The two big questions for the year are Mo and Austin. Austin really struggled to make the transition to the pace of the game coming from high school. Who knows what we will get out of Mo. Also, Austin didn’t get minutes on a sweet sixteen team, who said he will get any on a possible nation title team?
    Overal defense has to really improve. We could almost score at will last year but gave up way to many points. I think with everyone getting a little bigger and stronger this year that this should not be a problem. I would pay money to sit in on a practice and see these guys battle.
    It’s going to be a great year to be a hoosier, my second year for basketball season tickets. We can compete on any given night with any given team. Indiana we’re all for you!!
    10 players get 10 or more
    Yogi, Jordan, Will, Christian, Cody

  • Jake

    I would really love to see Abell get a lot of playing time this year. I think he’s a lot better than people realize and he’ll prove it eventually, whether it be this year or next. I’m just hoping it’s this year.

  • Derbus

    CTC loves tenure:
    CZ
    CW
    VO
    JH
    WS
    10 minute SUBS:
    Yogi, JHoll, HP, PJ

  • derbus

    Yogi w/ no Big 10 strength? He could tear Jordy up!

  • IUFAN87

    I still see around 8 players avg. the 10 plus minutes a game for us. I come to this because CTC coaches his game not to the talent of the squad in which is a good thing because his game consist of having a lot of talent or more talent then the opponent(s). This is the first year since he has coached at IU that he will have more talent then the opponents and his coaching strategy long as we stay healthy should work through out the year and into the tournament. People over the last few years have ?’ed his substitutions and personnel he has had on the court even last year and this year you will see why he built these veteran players to understand his coaching strategy. As any other Hoosier I am very excited to see how his substitution pattern and how the talent through out gets mixed up on the court.

  • IUFAN87

    I still see around 8 players avg. the 10 plus minutes a game for us. I come to this because CTC coaches his game not to the talent of the squad in which is a good thing because his game consist of having a lot of talent or more talent then the opponent(s). This is the first year since he has coached at IU that he will have more talent then the opponents and his coaching strategy long as we stay healthy should work through out the year and into the tournament. People over the last few years have ?’ed his substitutions and personnel he has had on the court even last year and this year you will see why he built these veteran players to understand his coaching strategy. As any other Hoosier I am very excited to see how his substitution pattern and how the talent through out gets mixed up on the court.

  • hardcore_hoosier

    The problem with starting Hulls and Yogi is the defensive liability. With two guys at 6″ or less they will be too easy for a bigger guard to post them up. It can work in some matchups but not often in conference play.

  • Kelin Blab

    mmm might want to check a tweet from Yogi’s mom and how those two have battled all summer. Lets not forget Yogi is a freshmen ….

  • moops

    At least four players will average more minutes than Hulls. Zeller, Ferrell, Watford, Oldaipo and maybe Sheehey.

    Hulls is great at one thing — shooting. We also happen to have at least four other guys whose primary skill is shooting from distance (Watford, Elston, Creek, Hollowell, Roth??). There are not going to be many games where Crean is going to be desperately searching for someone who can hit a three.

    On the other hand, there will certainly be times when he is looking for a defender, rebounder or ball handler. The players who Crean can rely on for these things will be the players who surprise us with their playing time as the season wears on.

    Right now, I’d trust about 3/4 our team for better perimeter D than Hulls, and I’d trust Yogi, Remy and Oladipo for ball-handling over Hulls. Only Remy provides good D and ball handling. I suspect that will go a long way towards cutting into Hulls’ PT.

    Hulls is likely to be the best shooter on the team (unless Creek is completely healthy), so he will get plenty of playing time. He will look better than ever when he is on the floor because he will be surrounded by better ball-handlers and more help defense down low. He just doesn’t offer enough in the way of unique skills relative to the rest of the roster to see more minutes than the other guys I mentioned.

  • Shop7

    I think if having multiple freshman on the floor gave him a better chance at winning, CTC wouldn’t mind.

  • Shop7

    Jurkin and Perea (mainly Jurkin), are the onoly other players that can play the 5. Do u think Cody is gonna play all 40 mins? Don’t even try to tell me that Elston can do it cuz he can’t.

  • dan

    Yogi, victor, Cody, Christian and pritchard

  • Tony

    I wouldn’t be surprised to see “five for five” substitutions. We’ll be deep enough. It’s an easy way to blend the “old” with the new. We can run other teams off the court that way. Think about how you would feel to see five fresh guys coming on court with little or no drop off in talent.

  • IUFAN87

    My starting Line-up in my Eyes and as some one stated you have to understand that CTC does not play traditional positions as you will see when times get tough Watford will control the ball on the outside and be able to find Zeller or one of the speed demons cutting so keep that in mind as I state my line up.
    PG Hulls ( Will Control the Ball majority of the time, Yogi is a True PG but Hulls has been here to long and knows what to expect and is only going to improve from a steller year last year )

    SG VO ( Yogi will be in the mix here but him and VO wont play together much as CTC will keep there speed split up so who ever is in will wear opponents down)

    SF Sheehey / HP

    PF Watford (Every one will have him starting but I believe many people don’t have high expectations I wish I could pull up post from last year around this time in when I said you are going to see him have a break out season for this reason his first 2 years he was put in positions he wasn’t comfortable with and had very limit talent surrounding him. Zeller came to IU you saw teams start focusing attention around Zeller and Watford took advantage now with VO Sheehey with a little more time under there belt teams will have to really open up against IU and it is only going to make Watford numbers improve if they don’t Zeller, VO, Yogi, and Sheehey might put up 20 points a game. Choose who you think is more dangerous and IU will bring out another star to destroy you with.

    C Zeller- NO EXPLANATION WITH THIS

    With the bench there is so much depth it is unreal if any one didnt catch the story on Patterson then you might not understand why I think in a few years this kid is going to be dangerous and probably one of the top 20 in NCAA. Then you have Jurkin who CTC says is the most under rated player in NCAA so if he develops not only will teams be able to keep up with the speed of the game we bring but the Height that we have. Can any one give me a break down on MC I have heard he might be the player left out becuase of medical again but have not seen no evidence to prove that all I see is he is working hard and is back to practicing with the team.

  • IUFAN87

    My starting Line-up in my Eyes and as some one stated you have to understand that CTC does not play traditional positions as you will see when times get tough Watford will control the ball on the outside and be able to find Zeller or one of the speed demons cutting so keep that in mind as I state my line up.
    PG Hulls ( Will Control the Ball majority of the time, Yogi is a True PG but Hulls has been here to long and knows what to expect and is only going to improve from a steller year last year )

    SG VO ( Yogi will be in the mix here but him and VO wont play together much as CTC will keep there speed split up so who ever is in will wear opponents down)

    SF Sheehey / HP

    PF Watford (Every one will have him starting but I believe many people don’t have high expectations I wish I could pull up post from last year around this time in when I said you are going to see him have a break out season for this reason his first 2 years he was put in positions he wasn’t comfortable with and had very limit talent surrounding him. Zeller came to IU you saw teams start focusing attention around Zeller and Watford took advantage now with VO Sheehey with a little more time under there belt teams will have to really open up against IU and it is only going to make Watford numbers improve if they don’t Zeller, VO, Yogi, and Sheehey might put up 20 points a game. Choose who you think is more dangerous and IU will bring out another star to destroy you with.

    C Zeller- NO EXPLANATION WITH THIS

    With the bench there is so much depth it is unreal if any one didnt catch the story on Patterson then you might not understand why I think in a few years this kid is going to be dangerous and probably one of the top 20 in NCAA. Then you have Jurkin who CTC says is the most under rated player in NCAA so if he develops not only will teams be able to keep up with the speed of the game we bring but the Height that we have. Can any one give me a break down on MC I have heard he might be the player left out becuase of medical again but have not seen no evidence to prove that all I see is he is working hard and is back to practicing with the team.

  • Jethro Troll

    @Dagwood
    Huh, that’s interesting. Since alot of people were saying the same thing about Zeller last year. We witnessed how wrong most of you guys were then.
    @kmark22:disqus
    You just described Hulls as one of the best 3 pt shooters in the country, yet you dont think of him as a SG. That makes a lot of sense. I could be wrong, but I think it’s a no brainer that Yogi starts right away. Yes, he’s a frosh, but he’s an elite playmaker. EXACTLY what IU needs. And Hulls will be a major weapon playing off the ball. In other words, being a lights out SG.

  • Jethro Troll

    @Dagwood
    Huh, that’s interesting. Since alot of people were saying the same thing about Zeller last year. We witnessed how wrong most of you guys were then.
    @kmark22:disqus
    You just described Hulls as one of the best 3 pt shooters in the country, yet you dont think of him as a SG. That makes a lot of sense. I could be wrong, but I think it’s a no brainer that Yogi starts right away. Yes, he’s a frosh, but he’s an elite playmaker. EXACTLY what IU needs. And Hulls will be a major weapon playing off the ball. In other words, being a lights out SG.

  • IndianaBall

    I completely agree about Hulls. And another aspect is the fast break. Crean doesn’t want anything to slow us down.
    Abell, Yogi and Oladipo can all push the ball with excellent speed, Hulls just can’t.

    I love Hulls, but his role is much closer to Roth’s last year, a shooter off the bench. And it should help his already tremendous percentage. He gets to come in the game fresh, doesn’t have as much pressure on him, and with all our playmakers he can get lost and open easier.

  • IUFAN87

    I know this is every one own thoughts and that is what the article is about but truly does every one believe that Hulls will not run this team. I mean every one knows how much a experienced PG in the tournament is I mean it is almost a give you have to have a experienced PG to win the national championship. I believe Yogi is going to get playing time and will start nights that VO doesnt start to keep the speed in the lineup but for him to come in and take over JH’s job I just cant see CTC taking a chance and putting every thing on YOGI and push JH to the side.