Open Thread: Discuss the 2012-2013 rotation

  • 08/13/2012 8:47 am in

One of the more interesting open threads we’ve had over the last two offseasons on Inside the Hall is our poll on who will comprise the rotation for the upcoming season.

Two years ago, the idea was born after comments by Tom Crean stating that when he spoke with several of his players, most of them had Guy-Marc Michel in their top eight for the 2010-2011 rotation. A lot can happen between now and the beginning of practice, as evidenced two years ago with Marc-Michel who never played a game for the Hoosiers.

Last year, nearly 200 of you chimed in with your thoughts on a team that ended up in the Sweet 16 after being picked by most to finish in the bottom half of the Big Ten.

We’ll once again change the questions slightly this season, but here are two to ponder: With four of five starters returning and a highly ranked recruiting class arriving, how many players do you expect to average more than ten minutes per game? (Note: There were eight last season.)

And second, which five players will start the first Big Ten game?

Happy Monday, friends.

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  • This is a tough call for Crean, here is the difference this year beyond all others. The talent on this team will only make the Red and White practice squads better…..state that again WAY BETTER! The better and harder they practice the more Crean will have to discern which players to put in the lineup. I have a feeling it will come down to work ethic.

    PG – Yogi (Lightning quick and plays the pace that Crean wants)
    SG- Hulls (Spreads the defense to much with his 3pt % and Smarts)
    SG- VO (Crean has always stated that he loves Will’s Intensity off the bench)
    F- Watford (Nothing spreads a defense more than a great inside outside threat)
    C- Zeller (#Obvious)

  • VerdellJonesIV

    Let’s not forget that this time last year almost everyone was convinced our starting front line would be Pritchard playing alongside Zeller. Just wanted to point out how much these things change as the season grows closer.

  • Miamihoosier

    I feel like Crean will have less regard for match ups this year, and end up putting the 5 best players out there, forcing the opponent to match up against us. That being said, Hulls might not start come the start of BIG 10 season. Throw out Zeller and Watford, cause you know they are starting. 1-3, who are the best players on the team right now? To me it’s probably Yogi, Dipo, and Sheehey. Now, what I would really love to see, is Jordy lead out 5 pissed off guys ready to prove they should be starting about 8 minutes in to the game with the lead already in double digits. 5 in …5 out. Jordy, Creek, Hollowell, Perrea, and Elston…(insert Remy for Creek if he can’t go) Imagine you are Nebraska, it’s your first time in Assembly Hall, you know you stole a game last year, and these boys have been waiting to pay you back all year…..you look in your lay up line, and your best player, would be the 11th man on IU…….what do you say to yourself? I’m bettin you wish your fans hadn’t stormed the court

  • b_side

    You are correct re: #2, but you also misunderstood the initial question. Alex was asking how many will average 10+ minutes per game, not points.

  • Arch_Puddington

    Actually, thats what I meant as well. The way I wrote it I sounds different, but I meant 10+ minutes per game. A number of people said that we would have 10 players at 10 minutes or more, which is nearly impossible. As I mentioned in my first post, I did some research on this a few weeks ago, and I couldn’t find any team, including some famously high tempo teams from the past, that had 10 players averaging10 minutes or more. Most have 7 or fewer. Depth is certainly a nice thing to have, but in the end teams have to keep their best players on the court as much as possible.

  • Geoff_85

    I’ll post later to say what I think lineups will be. I’m pressed for time now, but just wanted to ask you guys…Does anyone else think that maybe we’re selling Perea a little short? I think he has a lot more talent, especially defensively, than a lot of people on here are giving him credit for. Let’s also remember that Coach Crean has been talking about getting Cody Zeller more outside looks, moving him around, etc. Could this be because he is seeing a Zeller/Perea combination on the court? I’m not saying that’s definite a thing, just proposing the idea.

  • Remy Willing and Abell

    Off topic – please check out the youtube video of IU football 4 star commit Antonio Allen JR . THIS GUY IS A HEAD HUNTER !

  • GaHoosier

    I’m surprised that you didn’t include Watford in your Lock People down D lineup. Remember, he guarded the point guard position last year…and guarded it pretty well! IMO

  • Remy Willing and Abell

    I think either or both Patterson/Perea could get in the mix for minutes . Patterson’s defense and his work ethic might get him off the pine . Patterson’s wing span is crazy at his height . …And Perea is just a freak !

  • Arch_Puddington

    I actually meant it that way as well, although I doesn’t quite read that way. As I mentioned in my post, I looked at how other teams allocate minutes, including some famously uptempo teams from the past, and couldn’t find any that had 10 players above 10 minutes. Most have 7 or fewer, which makes sense. Depth is nice, but in the end teams have to keep their best players on the court as much as possible.

  • Daburns0

    Sounds like good insight. I think that Hulls will start most of the games this year because of experience (he has start for a full 4 years, that is rare anymore). I just am not sure after the first 6 or 7 guys. We might see 12 or 13 playing minutes off and on. That doesn’t mean we will have 13 guys playing each game, but that some will play some games and we won’t see them for a few games. Sort of like Abell played last year.

  • b_side

    Sure it’s not common, but I wouldn’t call it nearly impossible. Last year alone with far less depth, we had 8 playing about 12+ minutes, Pritch at 9.9 and Remy at 8.3. Not inconceivable to find that 10th player (Remy or whomever it may be) an extra 1.7 minutes.

    Although if Cody starts playing 32-34 minutes a game (vs. 28.5 last season), then I totally agree with you because it doesn’t leave much room for his back up (Jurkin, Elston).

  • hoosierfan1312

    no offense, but i stopped reading when I saw you called yogi the second best player by far on the team…

  • OhioHoosier

    Elston over Sheehey??? I’m sorry I love Elston’s physicality but there is no way that Elston would start before Will or Yogi because:
    1. He is not as talented and is not much of a scoring threat
    2. He is not someone that will fly up and down the court while making an impact on offense, he is a few points a game player and when CTC is looking for a team that can just score, score, score I dont see it happening
    Like the thought but I dont think that will happen. CANT WAIT FOR THIS YEAR.

  • IUMIKE1

    You took the keystrokes right off my fingertips. IMHO you can’t put a lock down lineup out there and not use a guy the size of CW that last year guarded the other team’s PG part of the time.

  • That is my feeling, IU is now a team that opponents will have to worry about matching up against.

  • Sheehey off that bench did well last year by providing a spark on offense and defense, plus he will add some leadership to the reserves. Also, Remy and Elston bring a ton of energy off the bench.

  • Dagwoods

    First person to make sense. I always laugh at the people who think Yogi will start over Jordy right off the bat. Senior leadership and experience is huge! Even Cody wouldn’t have been much without the upperclassmen around him.

  • I think the added depth really helps in practice. The level of talent and competition will only improve the play of the regular rotation.

  • Arie

    I agree, really all 5 of these freshman fill a need and are majorly talented. With such a ridiculously deep talent pool CTC will have to tinker game by game based on matchups.
    The freshman will probably earn minutes depending on how quickly they adjust to the college game.

  • SCHoosier

    Good idea to generate discussion..but really we’ve heard not one peep about how the movement players are doing other than they are “hard workers.” A lot of the rotation will of course depend on who we are playing..quickness..size..offensive and defensive tendancies. Crean has to figure out first of all who starts and plays when it comes to Zeller/Wat/VO/Hulls Yogi and Sheehey. Elston strength, experience and shooting ability makes him next in line. From there on..I think the fresmen have to earn it. I do think that Abell’s improvement puts him in front of the Movement kids (except for Yogi) Beyond all that…who knows. I’m still waiting to hear if all the freshmen have been cleared to play by the NCAA and who is the odd man out on the scholarship problem.

  • Just saw the video, Bob Sanders-ish

  • Devout Hoosier

    8 get double digit playing time on average. It seems like we should do 9 or 10, but to add the nineth player I keep going over budget (200 minutes total for a game).

    Starting five first BigTen game (geez, I wish I knew the opponent because this team is so versatile). Here’s my list:

    PG, Yogi

    SG, Hulls

    WING, Oladipo

    PAINT, Watford

    PAINT, Zeller

  • Hardwood83

    My guess for 10+ mins a game is 9 guys: Hulls, Ferrel, Oladipo, Abel, Sheehy, CWat, Hollowell, Zeller & Elston.

    B1G opener Starters: Hulls, Oladipo, Sheehy, Watford, Zeller.

    I am one of the few that doesn’t think Yogi will be a regular starter. If he does I think Jordy sits, otherwise it’s way too much of a defensive liability with them both in the backcourt. Offense wasn’t really the issue last season. With the exception of Hulls that is just about IU’s best Defensive line-up.

  • Hardwood83

    True- but there was a lot of talk about CZ playing the 4 & Cwat moving to his ‘natural’ position at SF. Seems absurd now, of course but a line-up of Hulls, VJ3, Watford, Zeller & Pritch seemed feasible at the time.

  • I think the starting line-up will look like this for us in the post: Zeller and CWat, of course those are the easiest choices and after that it can get interchangeable. I think the best starting line-up for us will be to start the guards and wings that will work best with Cody. That being said I’d prefer to see Yogi start at the 1, Hulls at the 2, and Dipo at the 3. (Sheehey is fantastic, but I love him as a 6th man) Although I think at the beginning of the season we may see Hulls start out at the point with Yogi coming first off the bench and having Sheehey and Dipo alternating between the 2/3 position. Fortunately for us, our team will have the deepest bench in the nation, which gives Crean a ton of options during in game scenarios. I think a lot depends on the development of Abell over the summer cause I think he’ll see some good minutes, and another thing is who is first to come off the bench in terms of forwards for us? Elston will no doubt be better, but when the season hits, I could see Perea’s development come strong and he may end up with more minutes than Derek. Ultimately though, I think the freshmen to see the most minutes after Yogi this year will be Jeremy. Who could very well end up being a hybrid Sheeladipo before it’s all said and done, only with more height. Wherever it ends up though, I think we can all agree that we are coming in with the best starting line-up/bench combination in the nation.

  • Kelin Blab

    Yogi has no shot a dethroning a senior who is one of the 3 best shooters in the country and started for a sweet 16 team. I have seen Yogi alot, he is still a freshmen.

  • Kelin Blab

    Hollowell will get Freshmen year minutes like Will and VO

  • Kelin Blab

    Starters…and Why.
    PG Jordan Hulls….experience trumps youth. Stronger, best shooter in the country
    SG Victor Oladipo… Fully expect his game to go to another level
    SF Will Sheehey… Can’t hold him back any more
    SF2 Christian Watford… EZ
    C Cody Zeller….Super EZ

    Yogi has an outside shot of starting at some point but Hulls was a leader on a team that went to the sweet 16. Yogi does not have big ten strength yet and lacks experience…….helluva player…but not there yet.

  • MisterSlippery

    My thought as well. As the season progresses, we’ll see how good our freshmen are.

  • MisterSlippery

    Dion Waiters came off the bench. I could see Wil as the best non-starter in the conference.

  • MisterSlippery

    I see Elston’s minutes slipping.

  • MisterSlippery

    Wrong.

  • MisterSlippery

    I would picture Jordy being SG and Yogi as a PG and both playing a lot. They’re both short, but these guys are both killer player to have on your team. I’ll be happy no matter who starts. I think these guys are going to be awesome. Sweet 16 last year and much better this year. I can’t wait!

  • ace132

    he also was also rivaling verdell on ill advised long 2 point jumpers

  • IUJeff

    Gotta get Remy and Buss in there as part of the lock down team. Full court press is gonna cause mayhem.

  • IUJeff

    We may a few of the best non-starters this year.

  • IUJeff

    here here

  • IUJeff

    Not sure about that. A 6′ 8″ Indiana boy that shoots over 50% from three range (best on the team last year) is gonna get some PT.

  • IUJeff

    I think about half way thru the season, we’ll see Yogi starting at point. Yogi is a special PG, Jordy a special SG that was playing out of position at point last year.

  • best sub I can remember is Vinnie “The Microwave” Johnson from the Pistons. He was tough. I think who starts is a bit overrated it is who is in the game in crunch time. I think Remy will make a big leap that dude is built for Big 10 football and he played some key minutes last year. What a great pick up by CTC even more so after VJ3 went down late.

  • to open the season…
    Yogi – Hulls – Vic – Watford – Zeller
    Same line up for the Big 10 opener.

    My guess 8 players play 10 minutes per game…Will, Hollowell and Remy. Those 3 can play a variety of spots. Hanner and Peter should spell Zeller. I think Zeller’s minutes get held back a tad in the pre-conf. aside from games vs. the better teams.

    Also, an interesting note about the ESPN bracket prediction…3 teams battling it out for playing the regional in Indy (IU, U of L and UK). Oh and even better, U of L and IU getting sent to play in Lexington (and not against each other). That would be a huge UK hate fest up in that B.

  • Hack Wilson

    The starting 5 is a lock for almost every serious game. Jordy, Yogi, CWat, Cody and Vic. Those of you suggesting Yogi won’t start haven’t watch enough video. He will lead and director our offense, every game of the season. He will also be a big key to Zeller’s continued success this year, and Jordy’s. He’s just too smart not to play, and too quick for almost every defender in the county. Plus, he’s an A+ ball handler, with an unbelievable ability to know where everyone is, all the time. The interesting part to watch will be who replaces who at the 12 minute mark. I assume Sheehey gets first dibs, but you know Hollowell isn’t in Bloomington to sit on the bench. And in games where we need defensive pressure, it could easily be Buss. Elston, only because he’s a Senior. And Abell…this is enough to make my head spin.

  • Hack Wilson

    Elston’s inconsistent games will hold him back from those kind of minutes, IMO. Too many players ready to prove themselves in front of him.

  • while your head is spinning what if Mo Creek is playing??

  • Aceman_Mujezinovic_07

    I’m going to post before reading all the other comments then read on to see how many mistakes I made. HA

    Okay, here’s my thoughts for the rotation this coming year:

    Starters for game 1: Hulls, Yogi, VO, Watford, Zeller w/6th man Sheehey
    Subs averaging more than 8 minutes a game after Sheehey – Hollowell, Remy, Elston
    Starters by tournament time: Yogi, VO, Sheehey, Watford, Zeller w/6th man Hollowell
    Subs averaging more than 8 minutes a game after Hollowell – Hulls, Remy, Perea

    I see Elston losing time as the season progresses if he hasn’t progressed a lot.
    I see Hollowell as a potential freshman starter on a lot of teams but IU is too deep.
    I see Hulls as a great sixth man to come in, hit big shots and average double fig.
    I see Yogi as a starter.
    I see Perea as a rotation player after a short acclimation period.
    I see Jurkin and possibly Etherington as redshirts??? Maybe Jurkin stays to relieve Cody for a few minutes a game.
    I see Patterson as a 4-6 minute guy but will be big in the future.
    I really hope CWat doesn’t have his midseason play like a wuss period between beast modes this year!!!
    Sheehey will just be too good this year not to end up in the starting lineup!
    Remy will surprise.

    I think there still may be teams that are more athletic than IU this year but there will be no deeper team in college basketball and there will be no team in the country with as many weapons capable of putting up big numbers on any given day!!!

  • Aceman_Mujezinovic_07

    Ah, forgot about Mo Creek!!! If he’s healthy then he is a potential starter but at least a regular rotation guy!

  • notfargj

    terrific questions to ponder. as others mentioned, coach will and – i feel – should start the top 5 guys. from what i understand, he has them competing at a high level with one another in practice so as to test the mettle of each player. whoever rises to the occasion should serve as a starter. if a player doesn’t step up to bat, i would hope the player recognize why he isn’t starting and work harder to fill the role he serves on the team. seniority should be a factor when two guys are equally serviceable.

  • MisterSlippery

    That’s a good call. I feel like those 3 are locks.

  • MisterSlippery

    Jordy may be a short SG, but you have to keep playing him. He can score, lead and has a winner’s edge. You can’t out-smart yourself into not playing someone as good as JH.