Around the Hall: IU at BC, Hulls on Michel, team GPA, more

  • 05/11/2010 8:40 pm in

Around the Hall is recommended reading from the Inside the Hall crew. So go ahead, get your read on, kids.

+ Indiana will play at Boston College in the ACC-Big Ten Challenge according to our friends at The Hoosier Scoop.

+ Jordan Hulls weighs-in with his thoughts on Guy-Marc Michel, who signed a Letter of Intent last Friday.

+ Tom Crean tweeted his team’s GPA for the spring semester: A 3.16.

+ Jody Demling checks in with Jeffersonville sophomore-to-be Darryl Baker, who is healthy and ready to have a big summer.

+ Indiana is among the schools that have visited Lawrence North big man Michael Chandler, according to Kyle Neddenriep.

+ Cody Larson, the former Iowa recruit who recently chose Florida, is facing a misdemeanor drug charge.

+ Bud Mackey, who committed to IU under Kelvin Sampson, was arrested again.

+ Rush the Court reveals its post-NBA Draft deadline top 25.

+ Tournament information for this weekend’s adidas May Classic is now available.

+ Illinois picked up a commitment for its 2011 recruiting class.

Filed to:

  • JerryCT

    Given CTC's longer term time horizon ( longer than most fans ) I see no reason why Noreen does NOT fit if we are talking 2nd season and we continue the same style of play.

    Our frosh last year were pretty stressed to say the least, so 2 seasons in is fine w me.

    I just think CTC believes many 4-5 star players just donot fit the “pride in IU” that he is trying to bring back. They are here too short a time for us to build around.

    Again, a flat out scorer like Thomas however would do alot for ecitement around here however

    That day will come but not right now.

  • marsh21

    3.16!!!!!!!!!!

    THIS IS GREAT NEWS FOR IU! CONGRATS TO ALL OUR STUDENTS!

    THIS IS A BIG FACTOR IN BUILDING THE PROGRAM

  • Kelin Blab

    Wow you guys are good at ITH…I just read the hulls stuff….

    + Team GPA 3.16 that is DAMN good, congrats to the players and you know what to the coaching staff. Again…we hired the right guy…see next comment.
    + Bud Mackey arrested again…what a surprise
    + Cody Larson commits to IU…Cody Larson drug charge….(breath ez now people)
    + IU v BC…no comment yet because I can't wait to talk about J.Hulls comments….

    So Hulls and some teammates think Guy has some game. What I read into this is….

    + Hulls stressed Guy has some offensive game with both hands and 'fits' well with the team, good
    + Hulls mentioned Guy being a presence inside similar to a Lauderdale or Nix…not bad but bigger
    + I have read Guy post 'BIG” and strong and this is a important trait to have as a big and you don't do this unless you have some level of offensive game.
    + Finally, I have heard our squad is pretty honest about guys they play with who visit. This confirms what I heard that they were very impressed with Guy and the most impressed with him than any other big that has come in…
    + 5 months to work on his game, get in better shape, go from 265 to 285, and baby hooks and mikan drills until his arms fall off…….anyone smell a post season tourney…(CBI, NIT, NCAA)

    On Dakich today heard a scouting report on Noreen, to summarize he is two years away from being effective in the big ten. Not bad but can we wait?

  • HOOsierDaddy

    BIG NEWS!!!!!!!

    Stevie Taylor just commited to IU he is in the 2011 class from Gahanna OH, Lincoln High
    heard it from a friend who is a friend with his dad, rising player…
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTyjeILUOx0

  • HOOsierDaddy

    correction he is extremely intereested, not a commit yet, but is taking a visit

  • marsh21

    We don't need 3 star, 5-10 point guards. Hopefully JD chooses IU and we will be straight for a few years.

  • BaseballBuc

    I agree with marsh21 here. We need Jeremiah Davis more than Jeremiah Davis needs us. But I guess first come first serve.

  • Taskmaster75

    Don't think he has an offer yet, but this is according to Rivals.

  • Kelin Blab

    I don't know anything about this kid but my thought are….I like what Crean is doing, finding 3-4 yr guys that want to come to IU. Not waiting on the ones that are on the fence similar to Carlino nor waiting on the one and done kids. Simple…if you want to come to IU and you have a scholly offer….Sh*t or get off the pot…!

    Stevie is quick, is a point guard, can get into the lane…I could give a damn about stars…I will keep saying it…the #22 player in the country last year averaged 3ppg 3 rebounds…5 stars..Daniel Orton….

  • Kelin Blab

    Where did you see the extremely interested news? Didn't see anything online. From what I have seen …..sign his ass up today! That gives us the PG we need, the kid is a baller, plays both ends, has a 3pt game and midrange, which makes his penetrating more deadly. Go ahead an youtube him and enjoy.

    I want Indiana kids that want to be at IU. Secondly I want (good) kids that want to be at IU. Whichever comes first……No one cares that our two best players are from elsewhere right now…on the front of the jersey it says INDIANA.

    I hope Crean offers Nic Moore too….time to turn up the heat in this state.

  • hoosierboy

    Stevie looks like a player. flat out. He must get stronger though. I agree to a certain extent about the stars. They are just a guide to help us get an idea of their game. I don't know where some people get the notion that it is a sin to sign 3 star players. Given our current situation we shouldn't expect the high profile recruits yet. There are a lot of impact players in the Big 10 that were 3 stars: Draymond Green, Mike Tisdale, Mike Davis, Taylor Battle, Jordan Taylor. Just to name a few. This is Crean basically givin Jeremiah Davis his last chance. As we all know, he wants Davis but hes not gonna sit and wait for him forever.

    I have also heard from an assistant on All Ohio Red senior to be that Stevie has gained a lot more interest. The only thing holdin back the big offers is the height. This would be a great player for Crean because he fits the run and gun system while having a consistent shot. It will be interesting to see if he gets an offer.

  • hoosierboy

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ly59n-0kCA4

    This makes me want Jeremiah Davis even more!! I hope AE does his thing with JD and Zeller.
    Doesn't he look great in Assembly Hall.

  • Kelin Blab

    hoosierboy I agree 100%. I think JD committing to IU would be huge huge huge. But there are so many good players out there and to be honest, JD and DSR are similar players one class apart. If IU could land one I would be thrilled. We just can't be on Irving watch, Selby watch, Teague watch, and Moses watch all year long like last year.

    The interest in S. Taylor and A. Thomas is growing fast and they are both from Ohio. I know IU, AE, and the fans are doing all they can to open the door for J.Davis and others but what more can be done? I have heard Crean say….The Train is leaving…..

  • Hoosier76

    I think I would be alright with signing him. I used to play open gyms with my high school team when I was a senior at Worthington Kilbourne and Gahanna Lincoln would come play. Taylor was an 8th grader at the time but still came and played. He was tiny back then but he could hold his own with slick dribbling. Lincoln recently beat Northland in the state tournament (where Sullinger and Weatherspoon go to high school) by about 20. Central Ohio usually had quality high school basketball so I would be happy with this guy. If he wants to wear the candy stripes then sign him up

  • marcusgresham

    Billy Keller-Purdue, Mike Robinson-Michigan State, Scoonie Penn-Ohio State, Dee Brown-Illinois–all Frances Pomeroy Naismith Award winners (best player in the country 6'0″ or under,) from Big 10 schools; Jason Gardner, who everyone would have loved to have had at IU, but he went to Arizona, Darren Collison and Tyus Edney from UCLA, Earl Boykins, Sherron Collins, Muggsy Bogues, Monty Towe, Ray McCallum, Brevin Knight…

    You can't honestly use Daniel Moore, a walk-on who had one D-I scholarship offer, as part of your argument because he only played because of a lack of depth. Hulls defensive deficiencies are a result of him not being a great defensive player, not a result of his height. He's got a big enough body to play adequate defense, he just didn't.

  • HoosNation

    I agree to a T. Or maybe to a CT! Very good description there of the status of IU basketball. I believe that the things that are worrying are directly linked to W's. Not down playing the positives, however I hope that TC and staff can correct those negatives immediately.

  • marsh21

    I understand to a point however your example is not a good one. Daniel Orton played behind the best players in the country this year and would have started on 99% of the other teams.

    Stars are certainly not everything but these kids are rated by people who have an idea on talent and do show an overall talent level. We don't need small point guards playing in the Big Ten unless they have jets on their heels because they can't defend. Nothing against them it's just reality. I do like what Crean is doing as well but let's keep the points a little bigger unless they have other outstanding qualities to consider.

  • Kelin Blab

    So should we not recruit Yogi Ferrell and Nic Moore. Surely Daniel Orton could have produced more than what he did and why didn't he start on KY? The people who rate these kids weigh heavily on AAU. That is ok but not a reflection of who they really are.

    There have been many small PG's in the big ten who have done very very well, and Crean has been known to have a few. If you look at this kids game he does what NONE of our current pg guards can do and is more of a pure point than JD. Ofcourse we want JD for many reasons but Taylor has some attractive qualities that IU sure could use…..

  • Bucky

    Good story about Painter with Teague, KB. At some point, a coach has to pay attention to the feedback from the kid, and if it’s time to move on, then keep a good relationship with the HS and summer coaches but move on.

    A good salesperson knows that time is his most valuable asset.

  • Bucky

    The 3.16 average is great.

    I don’t think Sampson’s team would have reached 3.16 if you had added all their GPAs together for a non-averaged total.

  • marsh21

    If Orton doesn't have talent why is he going in the first round of the NBA draft? If he had 3 stars by his name do you think he gets drafted? I would say no because his talent level wouldn't be there. The stars are not a reflection of how a person fits within a system but they do measue overall ability which is one point to consider.

    I know very few 5-10 point guards that have done very well in the Big Ten. It's not that they can't shoot or pass or even run a team but defense can become an issue if they are going up against bigger kids with offensive ability. Did you see how Hulls and Moore looked compared to other Big Ten teams this year? They looked like Junior High kids and could get posted up at any time.

    Any more unless a point has other high qualities I would really hesitate to get someone less than 6-0. I want Championships not third place in the Big Ten and it's rare that teams get a high level of success with small points.

  • marsh21

    Are you kidding me??? This kid is solid all the way through. If we have a chance then we continue to fight for him not sign Stevie Taylor just because “the train is leaving”.

    Crazy comments in this board…….

  • Hardwood Wizard

    How many minutes did they share on the court and who was featured in the offense? Why don't we split hairs?

  • HoosierFromCT

    I agree with you 100%. Syracuse doesn't have 1 player that was rated in the top 100 in their respective recruiting class. And Tom Izzo's last McDonalds All-American?……Shannon Brown.

  • marcusgresham

    Billy Keller-Purdue, Mike Robinson-Michigan State, Scoonie Penn-Ohio State, Dee Brown-Illinois–all Frances Pomeroy Naismith Award winners (best player in the country 6'0″ or under,) from Big 10 schools; Jason Gardner, who everyone would have loved to have had at IU, but he went to Arizona, Darren Collison and Tyus Edney from UCLA, Earl Boykins, Sherron Collins, Muggsy Bogues, Monty Towe, Ray McCallum, Brevin Knight…

    You can't honestly use Daniel Moore, a walk-on who had one D-I scholarship offer, as part of your argument because he only played because of a lack of depth. Hulls defensive deficiencies are a result of him not being a great defensive player, not a result of his height. He's got a big enough body to play adequate defense, he just didn't.

  • IUfanPurduePhD

    In the games I watched, they were usually subbed out for each other; rarely did I see them on the court at the same time. Your comment about being featured in the offense is legitimate for the significant drop off in points, but those rebounds are still far below average. Even if you give him Cousins' minutes, Orton would only average 5 or 6 rebounds per game… pretty weak for a five-star first-rounder who was the biggest kid on the court when subbed for Cousins. I'd be happy if Guy played Cousins' minutes and put up Orton's [projected] averages, but Guy isn't supposed to have half the talent that Orton does.

  • Kelin Blab

    Orton is not a lock to be a first rounder. Lewis Jackson has had some very good success playing at Purdue and being a smaller guard. Talor Battle is another, not the defensive guy, but still very successful. Dominic James, former Crean guard, did very well. The list goes on and on.

    I don't think Stevie Taylor is a guy instead of J.Davis….however…if this time next year we are doing LATE season recruiting because we waited on this guy and that guy….then Crean has a problem. For example…Brandon Dawson has made it clear he is deciding next spring…sure IU should still recruit him but keep looking at other guys. If J.Davis or Zeller goes elsewhere….we have to have a S. Taylor, Anthony Davis, Aaron Thomas, or a Nic Moore in place ready to go….

    I am at the point now where Mo Creek and Watford were at when they committed to IU…I know what Crean can do, he is a good motivator, I like his style, and I know the tradition at IU…sign me up.

  • JerryCT

    Here is what we know about CTC abd what I like:

    1. tireless recruiter and enthusiastic, loyal advocate for IU basketball
    2. recruiting very good players, many mention us, and in the state of Ind
    3. has a plan that is careful to stress, longer run foundation of the program ie no sacrifice of GPA or clean image to W's by recruiting kids that would embarrass us or knowingly set the foundation back by leaving early
    4. plays a style kids love, and plays alot of players
    5. can be good in transition especially this coming year

    Here is what is worrying me:

    1. 1/2 court offense after the transition is poor, predictable and soft ie archaic actually, as most teams defend the dribble drive very well
    2. poor defense in the 1/2 court whether in a zone or man
    3. no “come from behind” defense

    I never get too cranked on recruiting because a) I trust the staff that they know better than me, b) they are workign thier butts off , c) they are in the conversation with very good players, d) the kids will represent pride in IU

    I am worried about the product on the floor , which I think can be better with our current recruits and players.

  • Hardwood Wizard

    Orton played behind the most productive big man player in college basketball this past season. Please find another example though I get what it is you are trying to say.

    I think we should recruit Yogi as a safety net to JDavis. Nic Moore is solid but not a Big 10 size or talent.

    I don't recall any 5'9″ PG that have done well in the conference, most of the ones I can think of were around 6' tall.

  • HoosNation

    Im with you guys too. Stevie reminds me of a poor mans Iverson. Dont read any more into that besides what its worth. He would be the same kind of player as NMoore. JDavis and DSR are the same player as well. So now it's a matter of who wants to be in BTown? I get it, it's like you ask the hottest girl to prom and you wanna see if she will say yes…..but there is the girl in Biology class with the nice….. you know what I'm saying!

    JD would be my first option here. If he is slow on the trigger, we take the girl from Biology class. (STaylor) I bet the next player debating on going to the prom with IU won't hesitate!

    Not sure what's going on with this post!! lol Work has me on a flat line right now v^v–v^v———-

  • Hardwood Wizard

    marsh21, I back your logic. We need 4 and 5 star point guards. we certainly need a guy who is strong and taller than 5'10″.

    That is why we need to find players like JDavis who is 6'3″ and can play the point.

  • Hardwood Wizard

    Again marsh21, I like your line of thinking. CTC needs to put an all out assault on JDavis. I am really shocked by some of the comments to. One minute we need to win, the next minute we need to settle on a PG because the train is leaving. One minute we need to win to get better recruits, but it might be good to sign a guy that will take a year or two to develop. One minute JDavis is wrong for wanting to lay back and see where the chips fall, who walks on and what the true state of the program is, the next minute we cannot wait on talented players to make their decision. One minute we need to be selective with our scholly's, the next they are all gone with many wasted on players who will not see the floor the next two years. One minute we need to land in state talent when it is there and the next we are settling on a secondary out of state player.

    Seriously, the signing date isn't until November of this year for the class of 2011

  • Hardwood Wizard

    Are you sure you want to question or doubt CTC? Seems to be a sore subject here.

    JerryCT, you are very observant of the product on the floor. Plain and simple, we lost a handful of games last year where it appeared that we were outcoached. No way we should lose to Boston U, George Mason or Loyola.

    I could say the kids didn't show up to play and I will get attacked because the team is so young. I could say that CTC was outcoached and I will here that the team was so young. I could question how good the 2009 class really is and I will be told they are an excellent class.

    One thing is for sure, I didn't see a lot of secong half adjustments last season or schemes to stop the 15-2 run that was frequent in the second half last season

  • IUfanPurduePhD

    It's actually not that bad of a point because Orton got 13 minutes a game and cousins got 23 minutes a game, but Cousin's rebounds (9) were triple Orton's (3), and his points (15) were quintuple Orton's (3). Orton also averaged 2 fouls (to Cousin's 3) and 1 turnover (to Cousin's 2). Thus, Orton played more than half the time that Cousins played, but he put up far less than half the numbers, unless you're counting fouls and turnovers, then he actually outperformed Cousins. The only positive category in which Orton outperformed Cousins was blocks (1.4 for the former, 1.8 for the latter).

  • IUfanPurduePhD

    I posted this above, but since I did the research, I feel justified in putting it here too:

    It's actually not that bad of a point because Orton got 13 minutes a game and cousins got 23 minutes a game, but Cousin's rebounds (9) were triple Orton's (3), and his points (15) were quintuple Orton's (3). Orton also averaged 2 fouls (to Cousin's 3) and 1 turnover (to Cousin's 2). Thus, Orton played more than half the time that Cousins played, but he put up far less than half the numbers, unless you're counting fouls and turnovers, then he actually outperformed Cousins. The only positive category in which Orton outperformed Cousins was blocks (1.4 for the former, 1.8 for the latter).

  • IUfanPurduePhD

    So would you have rejected a 6'3″ 3-star point guard that wasn't even ranked in his class? If you watched Butler's tourney run, Shelvin Mack won them at least two games (Syracuse and Kansas St.)… Hayward gets the pub, but they don't win those games without Mack.

    Do I want JDavis first and foremost? Yes. But relying on these rankings too heavily is a mistake. Players like Stevie Taylor and Yogi Ferrell would be nice additions to IU and if they want to come and JDavis takes his time–and we risk him choosing MSU–then we can't hold our noses at Taylor and Ferrell.

  • Kelin Blab

    I think this boils down to Creans recruiting methods imo have changed….

    + For 2010 he tried to make the big splash but came up short and missed out on some other kids

    + For 2011 he has the Davis, Zeller, etc on the radar but does not want to get caught with his pants down either.

    + Question it is April 9th 2011…Davis is a Spartan, Nic Moore is a Bulldog, and S. Taylor is a Moutaineer….What do you do? You are at a point you need a penetrating PG…

    True story…saw Matt Painter at numerous Teague games his frosh year, soph, and not his junior year. Painter realized quick he was not getting anywhere, needed a combo guard got Terone Johnson….

    Taylor and Davis are different types of guards. They bring different strengths….they are not interchangable….so this isn't a choice between those two…however….for what IU needs, BOTH players can provide….

    Somehow Hardwood we always seem on opposite ends of the spectrum…I bet you like the White Sox, you hated Mike Davis, and you think Seinfeld is funnier than The Office…..am I right?

  • plane1972

    No offense, Kelin, but this video proves why Thad Matta crosses state lines to recruit. You could drive a truck through the lanes that Grovesport left for this kid to penetrate. I'm the old guy in the Sunday hoops league where I live and I could have looked like a 4-star against these guys. I'm not sold on him just because of this video. I did like that he plays at variable speeds, but did you notice how high he got up on the layup drill he was running – not very. This kid would have a steady diet of leather coming back at him. Let's keep our eyes on him and see what happens.

  • MillaRed

    Hardwood do you even like the Hoosiers? I mean, all of this distress is a bit concerning. You sound a lot like 4Guards over on The Hoosier Scoop and Frankly, he ain't popular.

    Maybe you should like, ya know, like a team that won't discourage your well being on a daily basis.

  • Kelin Blab

    Count me in next week….to celebrate the end of a school year…..and having nothing to do …

  • JerryCT

    There you go again making sense.

    Furthermore , there are probably more than 250 Div 1 programs w/o a top 50 player at point guard.

  • Taskmaster75

    “No way we should lose to Boston U, George Mason or Loyola.”

    These are within the first 8 games of the season, when freshman are at their worst, and you believe we wouldn't dare lose to these guys? Give me a break, the sense of entitlement is astounding. How about you give credit where credit is due to the teams that beat us rather than go out spewing the hatred towards our lackluster performances.

    “I could say the kids didn't show up to play and I will get attacked because the team is so young. I could say that CTC was outcoached and I will here that the team was so young. I could question how good the 2009 class really is and I will be told they are an excellent class.”

    Oh sorry, we didn't mean to offer a different opinion on the subject. Yours is truly divine and correct, and we are mistaken. Learn to be open with opinions rather than be volatile at anyone else's conclusions other than yours?

  • Taskmaster75

    Sigh, it was only a matter of time until he came here I guess.

  • Hardwood Wizard

    How many minutes did they share on the court and who was featured in the offense? Why don't we split hairs?

  • marcusgresham

    How do we know Crean isn't putting an all-out assault on Davis? He can only contact him so many times—-I think we're all fully aware of that!

  • Hardwood Wizard

    At that point (losing JDavis) we still have Hulls and we make a run at 2012 Yogi Ferrell. Also, VJIII will be a senior and if he has tp spell Hulls 10 min a game at point so be it.

    Even more devastating is that we will not have a big man for the future.

    Terone Johnson is a top 60 recruit, my point exactly that I have made time and again on this site. painter did not get his #1 so he gets a top 100 still.

    Hopefully JDavis will sign soon and this will all be for not.

    A big issue right now is that we do not have any definite style or system that seems to be consistent in two years with CTC. Hopefully this season will iron that out and provide more vision of the future.

    Huge Cubs fan, Mike Davis was okay but wasn't the right guy for the job, and The Office is much funnier than Seinfeld.

    I think we have the same idea of where we want this program to be in 2 years, just different ideas of how to get there.

  • marcusgresham

    Often times, a 15-2 run in the second half has less to do with adjustment than it does with fatigue or maturity. This team was not that deep last year, so every drop of energy spent in the first half takes away from what's there for the second. Depth also plays into adjustments–it's hard to change what you're doing when you aren't loaded with options to go another direction. As far as maturity is concerned–how many times do you think the guys on the floor thought, “Oh, crap, here we go again” when the oppostion started making a run? Learn to finish what you started and that confidence will build upon itself.

  • marsh21

    Congrats you named 13 players out of 350 D1 schools in the history of the NCAA. I'm sure there are many more as well however we don't have time to play the lottery. The specific example is wait for JD or other top talent or get the 3 star kid now because of the players you mentioned. IU has point play in 10 and 11, 12 on the team currently, not the level I would hope for however our current kids are at least as good a some 3 star player.

    Why not wait a little more and continue to go after JD and the others because we still have time? My point gents is let's not get to high on Butler's recent success of their unrated players because for every over achiever you mention I might be able to come with a few 4 and 5 star players who had some impact as well.

  • marsh21

    You chosing a recent team with success but that same team could have easily been beaten by Murray State and knocked out of the NCAA.

    The stars are not everything but the combination of 5-10 and 3 stars is something to consider when you're also chasing 6-3 and 4 stars who are ranked 40th the country. If IU chose this kid over JD just because he wanted to lock someone up 18 months before the 11 season then Crean should be tied to the stake and roasted.

  • marcusgresham

    Interesting–what line up did you find to be the most successful? BTW, I'm not really a Hulls Bandwagoneer. I think he'll be solid before he leaves, and in certain situations he shines, but I don't see him as the be-all end-all. Love him handling the ball at the end of the game with a lead, though—visions of Steve Alford (OK, not that good of a FT shooter, but still solid.)

    I want to see Elston play more, too, and I'm not sure why he didn't (other than his less that stellar defense at the beginning of the season–some of which could be attributed to playing somewhat out of position.)

    As for the 1-3-1 with Moore & Hulls, I don't know that that sounds like the best two options to guard a 7-footer, but I was thinking about “why the hell would you do that?” and this is what I came up with. Your point defender on the 1-3-1 should be long-armed and fast enough to get from one side of the court to the other. Hulls & Moore are neither. You don't want either in the middle, as a result of insufficient size. I suppose you could put them on the wings, but again—short arms and easy to pass over. As unconventional as it may be, the baseline may not be as bizarre as you'd originally think–sure you're also running from side to side, but against a much slower player than you would be on the point; in that type of defense, the weakside and middle defenders have responsibility to drop down behind the post/cut off passing lanes across/rebound. Maybe having those two little guys running under a much bigger guy causes some difficulty. I know it didn't work as well in practice as it sounds in theory, but I can see some logic in it. (Probably better not to have either of those two guys playing in a fast-paced trapping defense, but then you're back to the depth thing, and you have to play with whomever you have. Can't wait to see Oladipo playing that, though—-Rivers, Oladipo, Watford, Creek, Michel. That looks like a 1-3-1 trap waiting to happen.)