Around the Hall: Coaches weigh in on potential change to transfer rules

  • 09/07/2017 8:28 am in

Around the Hall is recommended reading from the Inside the Hall staff.

College coaches, including Indiana’s Archie Miller, have come out strong in opposition to potential transfer rules changes. Evan Daniels of Scout.com put together a column with his thoughts as well as input from coaches:

247 Sports’ Andrew Slater had the initial story and the NCAA later confirmed with a release on their website: “An academic transfer standard for all students that would tie one-time immediate eligibility for competition after transfer to a set of academic benchmarks instead of to in what sport the student-athlete competes.”

Let me make my stance on the issue clear: Allowing transfers to be immediately eligible would be detrimental to the sport. You can’t convince me otherwise. It would be and create absolute, utter chaos.

“It would turn into one of the dirtiest recruiting periods that you’ve ever seen,” Indiana coach Archie Miller told Scout.

Zach Osterman of The Indianapolis Star examines how the Archie (Miller) pizza was born in Bloomington:

The imported pepperoni gives it a classic feel, the still-seeded jalapeños a little bite. The fresh mushrooms? A nice finishing touch.

That’s what you’ll get on “The Archie,” the newest specialty pie offered by popular Bloomington pizzeria Mother Bear’s. A tribute to new Indiana University coach — and, it turns out, Mother Bear’s enthusiast — Archie Miller, the pizza is cheesy, tangy and a reminder of just how quickly Miller appears to be fitting into his new surroundings.

Five-star New Albany guard Romeo Langford talked with USA Today about what drives him to continue to improve:

“Thinking about the outcome of what could happen if I continue to work hard. My ultimate goal is to make it to the NBA and when I’m in the gym and in games I just try and focus on working harder. Every play, every possession, every rep I just try and go harder because I know that pushing it more and more will put me in the best position to accomplish my goal one day.”

Thousands of packages are arriving in Houston after Kelvin Sampson asked for help from around the country to aid those affected by Hurricane Harvey:

“We’ve gone from tennis shoes and T-shirts to diapers and phone chargers, toiletries, nice polos, sandals, shower shoes, all kinds of things,” Sampson said. “We’re not turning anything down. … We’re fortunate enough that we’ve got a place to store our stuff, and over time, we’ll get every item that comes into us, we’ll get it to the right spot. Whether it’s Rockport, Corpus Christi to the south, or Beaumont, Port Arthur, Lake Charles to the east, or the Woodlands area to the north, we’ve become adept at working with government agencies, state agencies, getting this stuff out to the right people. To do that, you’ve got to have a great staff. My staff has been unbelievable.”

In what could end up being a precedent setting situation, LaVar Ball told ESPN.com that a signature shoe for his son, LaMelo, is more important than his future NCAA eligibility:

If having a signature shoe ultimately costs 16-year-old LaMelo Ball his NCAA eligibility, his father, LaVar Ball, isn’t worried about it.

Given a choice between one or the other, LaVar said the priority is the shoe.

“He’s going to have a shoe,” LaVar said Saturday night during his son’s 16th birthday party, held at an event space at the Chino Airport. “NCAA ain’t going to tell me s—. Because they’re not my boss. That’s what they do, but they’re not going to be like, ‘Oh, LaVar, you can’t bring that shoe out until we tell you.’ What? Something that I’m doing for my family? That’s mine? I’m not under no umbrella.”

Filed to:

  • mars5123

    Archie is saying that students shouldn’t transfer, but he “transferred” before his contract was up. He was recruited while on Dayton campus before he came for an interview. Does he think his “transfer” was good for Dayton? (Both of the last two statements are directed at the more pointed quote he gives in the article)

    Students should be able to transfer after the season is over. Make the NBA draft deadline the transfer deadline as well. That way coaches could stop recruit over the summer for other transfers or recruits like they do now.

  • hardly

    OR make the school lose a year of a player being able to dress after a player transfers out (no loss of scholarship…but 1 less player is eligible to dress for games.) This way both the school and the athlete are penalized for a transfer. Right now the school holds all the cards and can do whatever it wants – penalizing both sides would make the commitment deeper IMO.

  • marcusgresham

    1. Nobody can make a call for help like Kelvin Sampson.
    2. One other umbrella under which you will not find LaVar Ball–that of an English teacher.
    3. As much as I agree with what mars5123 is saying in regards to fairness, allowing immediate eligibility after transfers would open the doors for even more skeeviness in recruiting than already exists.
    Maybe there should be exceptions–if a coach leaves then the remaining players may also be able to go elsewhere with immediate eligibility (but not to the school to which the coach is going,) but not on every transfer.

  • Apoc

    IMHO, I do not think this is the answer. As was mentioned in the article, if you allow all transfers to be eligible immediately, you have essentially turned COLLEGE basketball into a free agency nightmare. College basketball should be about both academics and basketball, something that was taken into consideration when the rule was first implemented, giving a transfer student time to adjust to a new basketball team and the academics.

    If you want to change rules, hardly up above made an interesting suggestion in that both the college and student be penalized for transfers (although that could lead to colleges treating students who want to transfer for good reasons really badly) or maybe a better suggestion allowing students to transfer with immediate eligibility after a coaching change but not to the school the coach is switching to. I think this would help alleviate some of the issues with the current rule.

  • GHG

    The biggest rule NCAAB should adjust is the 5 foul-out rule! Let’s get 6!

  • BannerOrBust

    Kelvin Sampson would probably strive if this transfer rule is adopted.

  • Geoff_85

    This rule wouldn’t put a stop to that. They’re still going to recruit over the summer. This just adds another element of dirty recruiting, and it absolutely will get ugly if this passes. Coaches would be recruiting opposing team’s player right after games. Archie said, “you’ll have guys talking to your players when they are in your gym,” and I absolutely believe that.

  • Geoff_85

    It would get real dirty real quick. To your last point – players can transfer now with immediate eligibility when the coach leaves, I believe.

  • inLinE6

    He just needs a phone to do conference call.

  • inLinE6

    Absolutely. That’ll allow Priller more minutes on the court and guard the crap out of Swanigan.

  • inLinE6

    I can see arguments from both sides. A compromise may be to allow transfer and immediate eligibility after head coaching change. But again, that’ll be detrimental to the program. Archie did not just walk out free – Dayton has been financially compensated for his early departure. The sad fact is that coaches are fundamentally different than student athletes in college sports.

  • Hardwood83

    No, only after they graduate- otherwise it’s a year off, regardless of coaches status.

  • sd chuck

    This would be a stupid rule change that would further destroy an already eroding NCAA sport, Lavar is stupid, no way he is good for any of the kids that he is influencing, pulling kids off the floor, the rant on an official, media please turn your back on him! I do love Lonzo’s game,he must have a very strong inner being.

  • TomJameson

    Pretty sure they can transfer, but not with immediate eligibility. At least not if they are enrolled in school. Recruits that haven’t enrolled yet can be released from their commitment, transfer, and have immediate eligibility.

    That would be a good rule change, what Marcus said in his #3 option above. That is about as far as I would want to go in changing the transfer rules.

  • VOXAC30

    Transfers in general are a bad idea with the exception of extreme circumstances all players should sit out a year.

    Exceptions:
    – Fired Coach
    – Kid has already graduated

    IMHO – The kid owes the school and the school owes the kid. I say this but we may not have won our last BIG10 w/o Max Bielfeld

  • TomJameson

    I agree with this as well. To all those who don’t think there is dirt in recruiting, think about all the “negative recruiting” going on already. Coaches talking bad about other coaches rather than stressing the positive about their own programs.

    Think about the sleaze-bags in basketball … you really think that they won’t be recruiting active players, even during the season? And if the NCAA puts a “rule” in place to stop that, do you really think it will be enforced against the big Sleazes like UNC, UK, UL ??

  • TomJameson

    It’s almost like the NCAA just wants to make a controversial rule change to deflect what they aren’t doing with UNC and UL. It’s really a stupid rule that will work solely to disorganize college BB recruiting, allow the dirtier programs to get away with murder, and to make the mid-majors the new recruiting front. It’s basically turning a current cheat into legitimacy.

    And please, the student part and the scholarship isn’t affected by sitting out a year, so don’t bring that into the equation. The student continues on his/her scholarship with no disruptions. Apples and oranges.

    And it’s the same about a coach leaving. 1) Coaches and their schools are governed under the contractual obligations they both agreed to. 2) Coaches don’t often leave a school mid-year. 3) Coaches have several assistant coaches that can (mostly) step right up to take over a program for a year until a change (if wanted) can be pursued. Apples and piñatas.

    This is just a very bad rule change.

  • GHG

    Or allow De’Ron Davis to not have to sit more than half the game, when he gets two fouls 2-3 minutes into the game

  • SoCal Hoosier

    This is exactly what happens in AAU and HS ball already. I coach both and have had kids recruited in the handshake line, believe it or not. Bad, bad idea.

  • Geoff_85

    Ah. Thank you for correcting me. I thought if the coach left in the offseason, players could transfer with immediate eligibility. That needs changed, IMO.

  • Geoff_85

    Agree all the way. Student athletes should be able to transfer with immediate eligibility after a coach is let go. Now, I think they should have to wait until the end of the season if the coach leaves mid-season, but I don’t think the student athlete should have to sit out a season.

  • Kyl470

    I don’t like the idea at all. So a mid major kid has a good year at his school and then bolts for a power 5 conference team. What if Crean got the Missouri job this year instead of Martin. Could he just take the whole IU roster with him? So Archie would be left with no one on the roster. Guess that would really make it a tough call if a school wanted to fire their coach.

  • Kyl470

    Sorry to make this a larger and more political issue, but I find it funny that during the last election lots of college age students showed strong support for Bernie Sanders because he proposed that college should be free for students. Yet people think the college athletes who actually get to go to school for free are not being treated fairly. If you transfer and are forced to sit out a year you still are on scholarship which means you could actually get 5 years of school for free. So you could potentially start working on your masters degree and have that paid for. 90% or more of division one college basketball players will not become professional basketball players, but 100% of them have the opportunity to walk away from college with a degree and not owe anyone money for it.

  • kennygeorge

    WITHOUT

  • VegasHoosier

    Letting every player transfer without sitting a year is stupid. However, if the coach leaves for a different team, those kids shouldn’t have to sit out a year.

  • kennygeorge

    Without some close monitoring and regulation, you could see a 5star transferring right before tournament time to go from a non qualifying team to a highly favored team. I prefer the system stay as is with the only change being a student athlete can transfer with no penalty at the end of the season when a coach is fired or leaves(ie a coaching change). As some of said, things could get dirtier than what they currently are as of now. The rules will never be such as everyone is happy.

  • Koko

    If this rule goes through it will turn college basketball into a joke.
    They might as well include trades like the pros do. That should
    put the nail in the coffin of college basketball.

  • Koko

    LaVar Ball is a perfect example why this rule stinks and should not
    be implemented…why? Suppose one or both of his sons are at UCLA
    and some major school like UNC or Louisville comes along and tells LaVar
    if one or both of his boys transfers they will use and promote his tennis shoe
    line. Ball would yank them from UCLA in a minute. There are plenty of LaVar Ball’s floating around out there.

  • Outoftheloop

    That is a good idea. Every player in every sport can transfer with immediate eligibility the following August if they file the paperwork by the NBA draft deadline and are in good standing at their current school. No player can receive any support for “checking out” other schools. And only one transfer per athlete per career.

  • Ole Man

    Absolutely!

  • Ole Man

    It disrupts their teammates, the coaching staff, the athletic department, the school.

    Codes of honor?
    More like sleaze will ooze!

  • Ole Man

    What Kevin did is now legal. Lighten up.

  • Kyl470

    Didn’t Archie just boot Gelon? When Crean took over he booted Bassett, Ellis, Thomas, McGee, Holman. I would assume a coach could remove the whole team if he wanted to.

  • BannerOrBust

    Here comes the Troll … OLE MAN… Suck A D Grandpa

  • IU Hoosiers # 34, 1979-83

    Imagine if the NCAA was ever to be investigated by the IRS or the Senate?

  • Koko

    It takes a troll to call a troll but the funny thing is Ole Man
    is not a troll….not close…..so you missed on this one Banner.
    Careful you might go bust.

  • Ole Man

    Thanks, man. Considering our “history” I really appreciate you having my back.

  • Ole Man

    LOL! Brilliant!

  • ’11Hoosier

    I don’t really buy the idea that college athletes get to go to school for free. They certainly don’t pay for their schooling but they do have to meet the sporting and academic requirements to stay on scholarship. For basketball players, this usually means 30-40 hrs a week spent on basketball and 30 hrs a week spent on school.

    It is a slightly different topic, but I’m a big believer in the idea that basketball players should be able to get paid for their likeness. If Mother Bears wants Robert Johnson to appear in a commercial, why shouldn’t he be able to get paid for that? If a student on scholarship from the music school wrote a jingle for a Mother Bears commercial, he/she would be able to get paid. Why are those two things different?

  • Koko

    No problem….no need to hold on to things….we are both on the same page in general…..IU fans.

  • Koko

    Hunker down….you’ll be fine.
    Just be ready to not have any
    electricity for a few days.

  • just a fan

    Humbly disagree–you quit your job to go to another company, and mind you it was a job you were recruited for initially, you have to sit out a year before you can use your abilities at a new employer? Never happen, unless you have a do-not-compete clause in your contract. Perhaps no scolly the first year as an inducement for school B not to cherry pick players, but we’re talking FREE people, not property of a particular school. How about a case like the recently departed scholarship player who was told”…it doesn’t matter what you do here, you aren’t playing for us”–should he have to sit out? Are there potential abuses to the system…well, golly, who could imagine that happening–so address potential abuses first with some common sense rules AND harsh penalties for schools that abuse the system.

  • TomJameson

    Not many coaching changes done in mid-season though, it really doesn’t come up. Coaches leave mid-season due to illnesses, hardships, things like that. But in those cases the coach is leaving … not transferring to another school.

  • Hoosier Hall

    Right?? I love how IU got the proverbial hammer dropped on them immediately but look at this UNC crap that is still not over with. Or take the Louisville prostitution thing for example… still muddling around with it.

  • Geoff_85

    I don’t disagree, but I don’t think the reason a coach leaves is the student athlete’s problem, or at least it shouldn’t be.

  • iufan1957

    Yes, and we don’t want them at Indiana University

  • iufan1957

    Never happen. Too much money involved.

  • iufan1957

    Love my college basketball, please don’t screw it up!

  • Kurk Bright

    This transfer change is a giant step in the wrong direction. If I were in charge (still waiting on that callback) basketball would change to the baseball scholly rules; you want to play in college, you commit to at least two years. If you don’t wanna play in college, you can go straight from high school to the pro’s. This is like pro contracts with every contract one-year.

  • IU Hoosiers # 34, 1979-83

    Exactly, hence the word “imagine”