Around the Hall: Reaction to IU’s NIT draw, road game

  • 03/13/2017 8:40 am in

Around the Hall is recommended reading from the Inside the Hall staff.

Mike Miller of The Herald-Times writes that Indiana simply wanted to keep playing, even in the NIT:

Indiana learned Sunday night that it received a No. 3 seed in the NIT and will open the consolation tournament with a 9 p.m. matchup against No. 6 Georgia Tech at McCamish Pavilion in Atlanta.

Typically, the higher-seeded team hosts games on campus in the NIT, but Indiana declined to bring a game to Assembly Hall this week with students — a large portion of the ticket holders — on spring break. An Indiana spokesman said the school would be able to host a game, if still alive in the tournament, as early as March 20.

Sam Beishuizen of TheHoosier.com writes that Indiana missed an opportunity by declining a home game:

Indiana Athletics does countless things right. They’ve gone out of their way to improve fan experiences on game days, been active and sometimes groundbreaking in the use of new technologies to bring viewers closer to the games and generally do a good job in helping the community around the school.

But they whiffed on this move.

The reality is that the crowds at an NIT game at the newly renovated Simon Skjodt Assembly Hall were not going to be standing room only. Already slightly embarrassed to be in the NIT to begin with, empty seats certainly wouldn’t have been the greatest of looks.

But is this worth it?

Gregg Doyel of The Indianapolis Star writes that Indiana is all over the NCAA tournament bracket – except for one team:

Butler is 2-0 against No. 1 seeds in this field, both wins against top overall seed Villanova out of the East Region. Know who else is 2-0 against No. 1 seeds in the 2017 bracket? Indiana. The Hoosiers took down No. 1s Kansas (Midwest) and North Carolina (South) earlier this season. Researchers are furiously looking for another example of a team knocking off two eventual No. 1 seeds without making that NCAA tournament itself. I’m going to save them some time and declare: It’s never happened. I could be wrong, but would it matter?

The Atlanta Journal Constitution has reaction from the Georgia Tech side, which is excitement for the opportunity:

Having been given a chance to keep playing, Tech can conclude the season with a more positive feeling than its first-round loss to Pittsburgh in last week’s ACC Tournament. The game will be broadcast on ESPN. Tech was given a No. 6 seed in an eight-team quadrant headed by Syracuse. Indiana is a No. 3 seed.

“We’ll need to play, obviously, really, really well, but it’s a great opportunity for our program,” Pastner said. “One, it’s postseason. Two, it’s Indiana. Three, it’s a home game. Four, it’s national television. It’s huge for our program.”

CBSSports.com examines the rules changes in place for the NIT:

A few experimental rule changes will be in place for the NIT, allowing the NCAA to collect more data as it considers the impact of its current game format with two 20-minute halves. These rules break down the accumulation of team fouls into 10-minute segments, providing a snapshot of what college basketball with four quarters might look like.

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  • WhatsUpKnight2.0

    see, case in point! it’s universal among us iu fans. and fun to think back on. i’m sure you’ve got some fantastic memories, given that you experienced em firsthand!

  • Elwood Hoosier

    I’ve been in the Joyce Center. It is small but I was just implying the fact that ND is in arguably the best conference in basketball and competing for titles. He does love the East coast though.

  • pcantidote

    Does anyone know the inner workings of the keep/fire decision. Is it truly exclusively Glass’ decision or are there other factors (e.g. Board of Trustees), etc. that can either influence or effectuate the decision?

  • HoosierStuckInKY

    That’s right. There was a lot of bourbon consumption around that time. Same result if the math is recalculated. Above average at best. Consistently inconsistent.

  • Shaggy_C

    They already announced that the team would play home NIT games if they make it through to the later rounds the following week. Seems unlikely that they would commit to that if they were trying to avoid having fans around a “toxic environment.”

  • inadvertentelbows_stillhurt

    The MVC is trash.. The Shockers have padded wins for better seeding in NCAAs and have gotten a few post season wins… Marshall is just CTC.2 .. The step up in recruiting..fan expectations, and ajustment period will have us praising roughly the same success CTC has had… He is a good coach.. but not elite.

  • IU Hoosiers # 34, 1979-83

    Zora, thank God you weren’t shot when you did that! That’s great you did that but I wouldn’t try that to often. Especially here in Chicago!!!!

  • Arch Puddington

    The WatShot is my all time favorite IU basketball moment ever. That’s surprising, even to me, because I have watched every game that mattered since 1975. The only individual moment in the same league is Keith Smart’s shot. Different contexts and reasons for each, but the WatShot felt like something that had been lost for a long, long time had been found again. For whatever reason that meant even more to me than winning when we were at the top. That it turned out to be a mirage has been unpleasant, to say the least. As you say, it will not be without reservations if CTC goes, but in many ways the WatShot season and the one that followed are why he has to go. That is how Indiana basketball should be, and it isn’t. He can’t get the right players, can’t teach the right skills, can’t sustain that level of success. Too bad for everyone, but IU basketball can be better than it has been for the majority of CTC’s time here.

  • pcantidote

    True, although really the only way we could host another game is if there are upsets since we would be the higher seed in all remaining games if things go according to seed.

  • The Lights Go Down

    2005 would depend on when the NCAA selection Sunday moved one week later than it was originally. I tried to find when that happened, but came up empty.

  • Shaggy_C

    I think Alex’s assessment a week or so back put it best. IU is the 4th or 5th best team in the B1G over the last 6 years. Definitely not elite, but not mediocre, either. I think there’s a real opportunity with Bo Ryan’s retirement, Tom Izzo’s rapidly advancing age, and Thad Matta’s decline for another team to step up and take that top spot.

  • WhatsUpKnight2.0

    i don’t blame you. for me, wat shot would be a very close 2nd to smart. 3rd? no doubt daryl thomas bashing lohaus in the head on that inbounds play. haha! jk, not sure what 3rd would be.

    i agree with your assessment on CTC, and he only has himself to blame for the bridges he burned with the local kids. to me, that was the absolute final straw. when you have the top recruiting budget, yet whiff on every indiana kid and bring in mostly obscure ‘projects’ from other states…that’s just going down the wrong path, plain and simple

  • Shaggy_C

    If the Colts have taught us anything, staying silent is precisely what you can do as the decision-maker in these kinds of situations. If Glass is checking in with some of the “home run” hires to gauge interest, it would be foolish to publicly put out a vote of confidence in Crean only to rescind it a few weeks later if one of them decided to play ball. I imagine that in all actuality there are no “home run” hires available and we’ll get a quiet Crean extension a few weeks after the season ends with little or no fanfare.

  • The Lights Go Down

    The WatShot was when I think the Assembly Hall crowd came to realize they could actually impact the outcome of a game. It’s been bedlam ever since (well, for the big games at least).

  • pcantidote

    Let’s be honest here, mediocre is a relative term. Iowa or Minnesota would love to have our profile over the last 6 years. However there is also nothing wrong with IU fans expecting more. In my mind Glass’ decision is going to tell us whether we really should expect more, or that perhaps he is going to decide for us to accept mediocrity. Not everything is black or white either. I fully understand and appreciate the view that if you can’t get Stevens or Donovan, then just be patient another year and see how things unfold. In any event, it is a tough call.

  • inadvertentelbows_stillhurt

    No one in their right minds would trade B1G COY from last yr for MVC or A10 .. COY …1 bid and 3 bid conferences

  • WhatsUpKnight2.0

    and pUKe too scared to return! wonder if cal is ready to negotiate another home-home series now?

  • pcantidote

    Jared Odle kicked a UK player once at the RCA Dome. That is something we’ve all wanted to do and has to be up there 😉

  • WhatsUpKnight2.0

    yes yes, good call! loved it when cal got in morton’s face. i remember thinking it was so unlike him

  • Arch Puddington

    I agree with some of this comment. Two B1G championships, 3 sweet 16s, and a team ranked #1 are real accomplishments, particularly coming from about as far down as a major program can be short of the death penalty. Fans who want to ignore this — especially those who want to run him down personally — are just being hostile.

    The problem is that the “on the other hand” is so awful. Multiple years of historically bad defense, multiple years of historically high turnover rates, the unmistakable slide in recruiting — especially of Indiana players — the failure year after year to be able to succeed against teams that play slow-paced, physical basketball, and the really clear sense that without superlative players he just can’t win, and that even with them he can’t win tournaments. He brought us back from the dead, no way to argue otherwise. What he has NOT done is bring us back to the kind of regular national contention that we hope for, and his long career now has more than enough of a sample size to say that he will not be able to do so.

  • BC

    It’s the way his teams play man. Year after year we don’t know how to feed the post, play help side defense, to’s etc. not to mention the average record. Regular season conference champs are not what they use to be due to imbalanced schedules. TC is a fluke, his strategies don’t pass the eye test.

  • Arch Puddington

    No use in haggling over what the word “mediocre” means. The only thing that matters is whether we are good enough; I find it hard to believe there is a single IU basketball fan anywhere who thinks that our being the 5th best program in the B1G — and arguably the 4th best team in our own state — is good enough.

    And as for your points about the retirement of the league’s top coaches, sorry, but I’m not looking for us to move up because others get worse. I want us to be competitive against the best programs in the nation, not against faded programs whose best days are behind them.

  • The Lights Go Down

    I honestly don’t think Bo Ryan retiring changed anything related to Wisconsin in a negative way. Give it another season or two to see if they are going to sink to IU’s level once Ryan’s recruits are all gone.

  • Shaggy_C

    Well, think of it this way: IU move downward in the B1G correlated more or less directly with the rise of those schools. Do we write off Izzo and Bo because they took advantage of Knight and Keady leaving their respective schools? We moved down because they got temporarily better while we got temporarily worse. It’s just the cyclical nature of sport, and the current era we’ll one day write off as a historical anomaly rather than a permanent changing of the guard.

  • Shaggy_C

    Even under Ryan, his 2015 team was a particularly special group that was way above and beyond anything he had over his entire career. They’ve now gone from championship game to Sweet 16 and now a 8 seed, though it appears their recruiting is still up in the top 20 in the country. I think Gard will be good, but it’s hard to evaluate him in his own right since he’s still getting the coattail effect.

  • Arch Puddington

    Agree, but he’ll never win a national championship there. If he is content to make a zillion dollars and work without the kind of pressure he would face at a high major — which, for the record, I would be; I think guys like him and Mark Few have the world by the tail — then there is no reason for him to leave. But guys like that are competitive by nature. It’s why guys like Brad Stevens and Billy Donovan left similar jobs for the NBA; they want to compete at succeed at the highest level. So I suspect that Marshall would listen. He can win for the rest of his career at Wichita State, and be beloved everywhere he goes. But he will have to go to IU or someplace comparable if he wants to win a national championship, and I bet he does.

  • Sherronhasaheadache

    This will be a very interesting off season with so much up in the air at the moment but one thing is for sure, i will continue to root or my team no matter what!! i like coach but man he has a lot to work on as do the kids. i will be watching the Georgia Tech game and hoping for a Hoosier win.

  • HoosierOne

    He would be crazy to leave Notre Dame. He’s done wonders for that program, it’s one of the greatest universities on earth, the fans love and respect him, etc, etc, etc. If he comes to IU people will want his head if he doesn’t win a championship in 3 years and it would be the most stressful 3 years of his life.

    Brey has a great thing going at ND and has a better chance at winning a championship there than at IU in the next 3-5 years.

  • INUnivHoosier2

    No matter what is going to happen, I’d just like to know.

    Unfortunately, my desires aren’t really a driving force behind the decisions, so I guess I’ll just have to wait it out.

  • Bob,notBob

    that 2005 team was also pretty disrespectful of and about the NIT. Attitudes of fans and players alike were pretty sour -we were a #4 in the BTT after all- so it’s understandable that fans didn’t want to be at the game when players didn’t want to be there either.

  • Greg

    I have been following IU Basketball, since 1969. I don’t even know what to think anymore. Kid’s in Indiana use to dream, about playing for IU. I stood outside in a snowstorm and bought tickets from scalpers. There was not 5 empty seats in Assembly Hall. Now it’s Simon Skjodt Assembly Hall? Assembly Hall was a feared and sacred place for college basketball. The name should not be for sale, NO MATTER WHAT! In my opinion, if the name was going to be changed, it should be Bob Knight Assembly Hall or something of that nature.( I’ll get heat for that!) I moved from Southern Indiana, 4 1/2 years ago, to Gulf Shores,AL. I am one of a few IU fans here, with a IU Basket plate on my truck. What in the world is going on in BTown?

  • Shaggy_C

    I’m interested to see how the change in rules to use quarters and eliminating the 1-and-1 impacts this game. IU has really struggled with foul trouble this season, so getting a reprieve on team fouls would be potentially huge. I believe the rule change would make it 5 team fouls in each quarter before going to a guaranteed two shots, versus today which is 7 team fouls in each half, then 1-1s up to 10 fouls, and then two shots thereafter.

    So, assuming you distribute your fouls equally throughout the game, you could go for 20 fouls in the game without giving up any free throws, while in the current rules you would be giving the opponent a chance to score 12 points off of those 20 fouls.

    Would a 12 point swing off of fouls have made a difference in a few IU games this year? I’m going to say yes!

  • INUnivHoosier2

    I don’t fully understand the pseudo-religious consternation over the renaming of Assembly Hall. It’s a college basketball athletics facility.

  • INUnivHoosier2

    I wish every foul opportunity was a 1-1. I’d go the other direction and make them earn the points on the line.

  • Mike Lyon

    As a life long Hoosiers fan I personally think this is a slap in the face of Hoosier fans! It’s as bad as not playing in lesser know tournament a few yrs back! Personally think it’s time for administrators to give Glass n Cream a boot in the rear OH SPORTS PROGRAMMS ARE BETTER THAN THIS! DAMN SHAME

  • pcantidote

    I agree, especially since it was called Assembly Hall. How sterile is that? If it were called the “Knight Arena” or “McCracken Hall” for example then I could see the concern about any changes, but Assembly Hall is about the same things as “library” or “cafeteria”.

  • INUnivHoosier2

    I’m on board with your thinking.

  • Mike Lyon

    Sorry that’s IU SPORT’S PROGRAMS ARE BETTER THAN THIS

  • Arch Puddington

    Brey is doing really well, but is in important ways similar to Crean. His offenses are routinely outstanding, but his defenses are routinely awful. Here are the last 5 years of his Kenpom rankings for each:

    O: 16, 9, 2, 46, 17.
    D: 59, 158, 236, 275, 86.

    He will never win a national championship with that kind of defense. Granted, he has back-to-back Elite 8’s, but that is a HUGE statistical anomaly. In the 11 years before that, he had 5 years of no NCAA tourney at all, 4 years of being eliminated in the round of 64,and 2 years of the round of 32. Last year’s Elite 8 came after beating seeds 11, 14, and 7. The year before came when they were a 3 seed and the #2 seed (Kansas) got beat by Wichita State. In all the years I looked at, Notre Dame failed to beat a team seeded higher than them.

    So in my estimation, Brey is no more than a lateral move from CTC. He wins lots of games in the regular season, but does not coach the type of basketball that wins tournaments.

  • Shaggy_C

    Oh man…Could you imagine how long games would last with that kind of setup? As a coach, I would just start fouling every trip down during the last 2-3 minutes even if I had the lead just to prevent the opposition from using the 3pt shot and getting any chance to get back into the game.

  • calbert40 – AC000000

    Completely agree. If I was Marshall…the money wouldn’t be a motivating factor for me. Stability would be, though. But…I’m not Marshall. Never underestimate the male ego / pride. 🙂

  • INUnivHoosier2

    Yeah. I thought about that. I’d have to try to figure out a way to mitigate the constant fouling.

  • calbert40 – AC000000

    Hmm…I don’t think I agree with that assessment. At Winthrop, he made the NCAA 6 of 8 years, which is incredibly impressive in a one-bid conference. At WSU, he’s qualified for the NCAA in six straight years, and has only lost in the 1st round once. He has a career winning percentage of .725, and has won 11 conference titles in 19 years, and finished 2nd in 5 other years. I think he is a great coach.

    I think the difficult thing for a program like WSU is that it is really hard for them to schedule teams from power conferences, because the power schools don’t want to play them.

  • Greg

    “It will probably be ads in it for everything from dog biscuits to Pepsi Cola, I would imagine. We’ve always tried to keep it really free from commercialism. It’s kind of a sacred place where students come to play and students come to cheer.”-Bob Knight “We are looking to create a positive fan experience, while still preserving the distinct look of Assembly Hall. It opened in 1971. saw my first game in 1974. Sometime’s if it’s not broke don’t fix it, applies. My personal opinion only!

  • AndyCapp

    What is going on in BTown? So much to say but hard to distill it down beyond a rambling rant…

    – We are a storied college basketball program who has seemed to lose its identity and, therefore, struggling to put consistently good teams on the floor. This has been going on for over 20 years and the problems start at the very top of the AD. The good news? We have gone through a similar period before (pre-RMK) and can/will overcome this again. Just need to get the correct pieces in place which, as we’ve seen, is not an easy thing to do.

  • SeeingRed

    Truly mortifying for the program — to have to make phony excuses and run away from a home game because they’re (rightly) concerned AH will be filled with the acrid smoke of a torch bearing mob. It’s hard to see how it could go any lower.

  • AndyCapp

    No, doing what you said AND being in the bottom third of the B1G and missing the NCAA two of the last four years makes him mediocre. Good, clean, guy… mediocre coach.

  • inadvertentelbows_stillhurt

    Winning the MVC is like being a really tall midget… Ill State went 17-1 in same league and are NIT bound.

  • WhatsUpKnight2.0

    personally, i’m just grateful it ain’t named ‘kc yum’

  • vicbert caladipo

    Since the announcement I’ve done a lot of thinking and done a lot of reading, here, newspaper, facebook, all over including the links on this article. Personally my plans were to drive to B’ton to see a game or 2 with my brother who I hadn’t visited in years. We always go to a game when I come and hit the local hotspot restaurants.. Because of Glass that plan is squashed. There are many people who can’t see IU play because of distance, work, family, and mostly hard and expensive to get tickets. There are many people(teachers for one) who can get off work and children off school to go see a weekday game they otherwise couldn’t see with it being spring break. So just because they(IU brass) are afraid of low attendance and the heckling of CTC, folks like us get the shaft. Let’s pay no attention to the many fans, the families, the children, the alumni(of which I am all of those) who can’t see games at other times for reasons I listed. Let’s baby a coach who makes millions and should have thick enough skin for the profession he chose, and forget IU fans who just want to see these kids play. Forget the fact that myself and many others have never seen the new Assembly Hall. Let’s just call the whole thing off and go to Georgia because a few yahoos might yell something at CTC. That is beyond being selfish. So to protect one man we have to punish possibly 1000’s of fans who aren’t there to boo and ridicule, but to see the team they love. I don’t know if one man made this decision or more, but thank you for letting a few bozos ruin it for many many real fans Fact is no one really knows if fans will come to boo or not. But what I do know is the real fans who come to cheer and enjoy are left out in the cold. Thanks for thinking of the vast minority and not the alumni doners, the kids, the parents, the real IU fans. This is beyond pathetic the excuses and the decision.