POTB 144: Breaking down the Clifton Moore commitment

  • 10/05/2016 10:39 am in

Podcast on the Brink is back for another episode with host Jerod Morris of The Assembly Call. The show is currently available weekly. You can access a full archive of episodes here.

In this edition of the show, Morris and Inside the Hall editor Alex Bozich have two segments discussing the commitment of Clifton Moore. In the first segment, Inside the Hall editor Ryan Corazza joins the show to discuss a tweet he published following Moore’s commitment. In the second segment, Josh Verlin of City of Basketball Love joins the show to give more insight into Moore as someone who has seen him play multiple times.

Among the topics discussed:

· Ryan expands on his tweet on Moore’s commitment
· On how Moore fits into IU’s system
· Whether Moore was a risk worth taking
· On how Moore went from relative unknown to an Indiana recruit
· Verlin on the best case scenario for Moore long term
· How the AAU program Moore played for affected his recruitment
· The level of competition Moore plays against at Hatboro-Horsham
· On whether Moore will be ready to play right away in college
· Verlin’s thoughts on David Beatty, who Indiana is involved with as well as Al Durham, who he saw at Victor Oladipo’s Camp in July

And plenty more. As always, feel free to drop the show a note at [email protected].

Listen in the audio player below, download the episode, subscribe via iTunes or subscribe to the RSS feed.

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  • sarge

    Nice podcast fellas, thank you

  • WhatsUpKnight2.0

    i’m really torn on the whole recruiting discussion. half of me likes that CTC is earning the reputation of transforming raw talent into lottery picks. the other half is frustrated that, with all the inherent advantages that come with coaching a top tier school, he’s not landing more top 50, or even top 10 talent. it was great making it to the sweet 16 last season and beating pUKe. but we also got shellacked by the top 2 ACC teams, and who everyone considered to be the top B1G team. so what should we expect from this program? what is its identity? in honor of the mlb post season now in full swing (pun intended), i started thinking about it in baseball terms…

    maybe CTC sort of fancies himself as the billy beane of cbb, and iu as the moneyball era oakland a’s. beane couldn’t compete with the payrolls of the yankees or red sox of the world, just as CTC can’t compete in recruiting with the dukes and pUKes. so they have to get creative in finding competitive advantages. beane came up with ops, CTC came up with developing raw skill and athleticism. and of course we know how both stories have gone. people marveled at how a small market team wound up with one of the best records in baseball multiple seasons in a row (someone even made a damn movie about it). people admired how CTC has transformed unknowns like VO and OG into first round talent. but it was the yanks and sox, with the best talent money could buy, who were winning the ws. it was the dukes and pUKes, basically cherry picking any blue chip talent they wanted, who were winning the nc.

    do i think iu is the a’s? no, that’s probably more for the butlers and wichita states. however, they’re also far from being the yanks or sox. but i wouldn’t want them to be, and i don’t think they have to be. i’d prefer they be more like the cards or the giants. not the lowest payrolls, but certainly not the highest (both are in the top 10, neither are in the top 5). and they’re competitive pretty much year in and year out. they succeed with talented rosters (top50 – 100 recruits, with an occasional burger boy sprinkled in), good team management (CTC), excellent general managers (FG), and stellar farm leagues (in-state recruiting). as opposed to throwing together a hodgepodge of superstars like arod, giambi, unit, texiera, etc…(duke, pUKe). so in conclusion, i love that CTC is developing a system. i love that he’s bringing in some top 100 talent. but i think he’s got to bring in more. and i firmly believe it starts with gaining control of his own backyard. i’m tired of seeing the top kids in the state go elsewhere. because imho, this is one of the biggest competitive advantages he’s got.

  • Stromboli

    I understand what you’re saying, but I’m not frustrated at all. Indiana’s stock is rising. In a short time Crean has made a reputation for himself as a guy that will make you better. And he is getting the players. We’ve had plenty of deep teams. I think we’re just waiting our turn for a deep run.

    I don’t want a Calipari at IU. The guy is a cheeseball. Crean is a good person, good coach, and good figure for our program. He pays homage to IU history and seems to recruit players that will too.

    Patience, friend. The great Tom Izzo has only 1 championship in his 21 seasons at MSU. Calipari gets major talent, and he only has 1 championship. Coach K won his 5 championships with great teams, not flashy recruits.

    Kelvin Sampson tried too hard for recruits and it wrecked us. Right now we have a great culture, great guys, and very good talent. I’m happy with that, and hope we’re rewarded with a Championship, too.

  • WhatsUpKnight2.0

    trust me, i’m on CTC’s side. i like the dude and want him to succeed. i want to believe that the program is on the rise like it certainly appears to be. however, playing the blue devil’s advocate, the difference between izzocoachkcal and ctc is the formers’ teams are talented enough to win the nc pretty much year in and year out. last year iu played their hearts out, and i think played well above their talent level. but i don’t think they were anywhere near talented enough to contend for the nc.

  • Old Hoosier

    Ummm. If you want to complement that Duke team, then you need to add Ted Valentine to it.

  • HardRockHoosier

    On another note, did you see that former MSU quarterback, Kirk Cousins wore an Indiana Hoosiers hoodie to a press conference?
    . He also made a charitable contribution to a Nate Sudfeld Charity, because he lost a bet with Nate on last was game… Cool stuff.

  • onehoosier

    I think your point about Indiana’s program moving in the right direction is a great one. Teams of talented 3-4 year players will give us consistency and less down years. Recruits like Vonleh are great, but it’s guys like Robert Johnson that will take the program to the next level.

  • Chuck Wanager

    You can rationalize all you want, but the talent level is not there for nc with Crean, and he seems to be intimidated by the “great” Tom Izzo each time they meet. Crean is not the floor general Knight was, so he needs talent to win the big games. And he’s not getting it. He goes after top talent each year and Indiana ends up with the Moores and the three-star guards — oh, and maybe a five-star player once every other year. The lesser players may stick around to play as seniors, but Calimari and the Dukies will have their 5-star super talents that these days are demolishing the experience argument. Talent level needs to increase or IU is headed to last mediocrity. This for the Hoosiers? Is this what we will be content with? A nc once every 20 years? I won’t.

  • dwdkc

    Really interesting post. Remember though, that he’s only had a few years so far with a competitive scenario. Once he got Cody, he had a chance to compete on the floor and in recruiting. Since then, on paper the recruiting has been on a par with Michigan State and better than anyone else in the conference. We had 5 straight years with a McDonalds AA or 5 star. The movement hurt–the team was talented, but didn’t get it together, and then the next year we had a lot of bad luck, and suddenly he was recruiting with a cloud over his head. These aren’t excuses, but they explain why we didn’t quite hit our potential, the important point is that this past year has taken him off the hot seat and burnished IU’s reputation as a place to get better. I expect we will be able to pull in more talented, high character guys over the next few years . Too early to judge the 2017 class. If we don’t get Wilkes, I will join the fretting. But guys like Durham and Moore are probably severely undervalued. And if we put together back to back good seasons as I expect, we’re going to be getting our share going up against the UKs and KUs of the world.

  • cbags05

    Almost 7′ tall and can dribble and shoot some. Worth a gamble. If he works hard will at least be a decent role player in a few years.

  • Bill Graham

    Excellent post with great analogies. For me its all about balance. Everyone is bringing up the transformation argument and recalling OG…but OG was in a class with Juwan and TB… that leaves room for him to grow and develop. Even if he turned out to be a bust we still have two really solid guys…I just don’t feel that Smith and Durham are the same caliber (they essentially put more pressure on Moore to develop quickly).
    Now with that said its early.

    If we land a Kris Wilkes and somebody else or if someone stays i.e. O.G. or James then that gives Moore more time. I get that project guys commit early. And maybe I’m jumping the gun…but I still feel like this class is missing “that guy”…A TB or A James Blackmon or a Noah Vonleh or a Yogi Ferrell…etc. etc.

    Wilkes could be that guy. Preston could be that guy. Heck even Waters could be that guy (although I prefer a big)…

    To use your own anology. Even the Cardinals have Carpenter.
    Who’s this classes stud? Who’s the anchor?

  • Bill Graham

    That is one of the best posts I’ve read on here yet it has gone seemingly unnoticed. Hilarious.

  • Bill Graham

    Well put Chuck. I’ve been one to criticize the lack of positivity and I’ve frequently criticized our negative resident trolls (ie Baby Cakes and Kris K.)…but at the same time we can’t get carried away with project guys. I’m comfortable with at least 2 players that are total studs and then fill the gaps…And I get that these guys commit late…but so do transfers…So grab one project player in the fall (a sub 75 kid) and then play the waiting game like Duke and Kentucky.

    I’m a huge fan of analogies so heres how I understand it.

    Right now we are like that buddy you had in high school that jumped at any girl who flashed a smile…soon he gets a reputation for a being a ladies man and none of the sophisticated dime pieces want to look at him b/c he rap sheet is full of inferior looking/acting gals.
    *Now sidenote I’m not saying personality shouldn’t play a factor I just simplified this analogy to looks just for comprehensive purposes.

    Sometimes its about waiting for the right player rather than betting all your chips on risky hands.

  • Bill Graham

    I posted this same analogy to Chuck…so I’ll basically repost here:

    The way I see it. Tom Crean is essentially like that guy at the poker table with a ton of chips stored (RJ, CJ, JN, JM, DD – all probably returning)…therefore he can afford to make bets (schollys) on risky hands (players). But at the same time it might be more beneficial to just sit there and wait for the big hand…ya sure maybe that means passing on a couple smaller hands that he could’ve won, but winning that big hand just might put the game away.

    Thats why I still think we need a Wilkes or a Preston…they are the big hand. They could put us over the edge. Those are banner winning starters in yr 1 and 2. When we still have major talent (RJ, DD, JN, etc.) . We get Kris Wilkes and Billy Preston we are a top 5 team…maybe even higher. Look out Duke. Look out Kentucky….but with our current class were 15-20 again (in talent too- not just rankings)…ya thats good enough for a run…maybe even a small chance at a title…but is that truly good enough? – favorable odds? – probable even for a title?

    We have to ask ourselves, “What is the expectation?”

    and if increased tournament success and banners are in the picture then maybe we should mimick those who have been there recently and consistently.
    —as much I hate Duke, Kentucky, and Kansas they aren’t making final fours on the backs of guys like Clifton Moore. Sorry no disrespect intended. I think he’s a great kid and I hope he’s smiling next to a banner next year….but its hard to argue with consistent history

  • WhatsUpKnight2.0

    dang, how could i forget! haha!

  • WhatsUpKnight2.0

    absolutely, that one deserves about a thousand thumbs up

  • Chuck Wanager

    I tend to agree.

  • Chuck Wanager

    Not to mention, what ever happened to landing Indiana talent? Knight didn’t get them all but was able to sign major stars time in and out. Now, we are content with the Clifton Moores from wherever and the Kris Wilkes go to Ky or Duke and Indiana is a
    ho-hum “contender” and that is all. Does anyone know? Has Crean given up on the top Indiana talent? And why he would do that, if he has? Why can’t Indiana, The state university, land the top Hoosier talent? Why?