Hoosier loss overshadowed by Dumes’ shenanigans

  • 02/07/2009 7:11 pm in

I considered boring you with another AP style recap of IU’s 75-47 loss at Michigan State, but as Devan Dumes was tossed shortly after throwing his third elbow of the game, I quickly changed direction.

I realize it’s a long season and the players are probably frustrated with the losses that are piling up. It’s not easy to come out each game, play hard and know no matter how well you play, you’re probably going to lose. But the behavior from Dumes was flat out unacceptable. I was willing to dismiss his elbow on Craig Moore during the Northwestern game as a lapse in judgment during the heat of battle.

After today, I’m left wondering if Dumes should be punished by either Indiana or the Big Ten. For those of you who missed the game, here’s a blow by blow recap of what went down:

  • 21 seconds into the game, Dumes is whistled for a foul.
  • At the 17:32 mark of the first half, he’s slapped with his second foul and heads to the bench.
  • Re-enters at the 12:44 mark and by the 12:03 mark, he’s whistled for his third foul (offensive).
  • With 16:31 remaining in the second half, a replay shows that Dumes elbowed Michigan State forward Goran Suton in the crotch during transition. The officials reviewed the play and decided to allow him to remain in the game, but ESPN announcers later revealed that they didn’t have access to the one replay that clearly showed the elbow was intentional.
  • At the 2:10 mark, Dumes was hit by an inadvertent elbow by Michigan State forward Tom Herzog and retaliated with an elbow of his own. It was his fifth foul and also a flagrant and Dumes was ejected.

I have no problem with guys competing and playing with an edge. But when you’re throwing unprovoked elbows, especially in the waning moments of a blowout loss, you’ve got all of the elements of a cheap shot. And that’s the last thing Tom Crean needs to have on his hands while trying to rebuild a program that, let’s face it, has lost some credibility with the events that transpired last season. He’s trying to rebuild the privelege of wearing the IU uniform that’s been missing as of late.

So my questions for you, ITH’ers, are as follows: Did you view the elbows as intentional? How, if at all, should Dumes be punished? Thoughts on those questions as well as your reaction to the game are welcome in the comments, boys and girls.

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  • peaychris

    i feel the same way… i think IU pre-samson (the knight days) always played tough but fair… Dumes is a reflection of the rebuliding process and a reflection on crean. i wouldnt mind a 5 gamer and if he comes back and pulls anything close to what he did today i would tell him to not the the door hit him on the way out. hey it might even help the scholarship situation..

  • James

    Lets not all act like a bunch Kentucky fans and completely over react to one game and a lot of mounting frustration. Dumes has been a solid contributor and a good player for the Hoosiers this year and there is no reason to talk about getting rid of him. Suspend him? Sure do it…that ball shot was uncalled for and pretty bush. And there is no question that they were intentional because they obviously were. Im not saying that I, hoosier fans, or the coaching staff/administration should be ok with behavior like this…but get rid of him?? Come on now…
    Its been a tough season for the fans…so just think about how hard its been for the players.

  • DMJ

    Not like losing Dumes is going to be a blow to our NCAA tourney chances or anything. Crean can't afford to let this happen without punishment in his first year or it'll reflect poorly on the upcoming years. I'd sit him out for the Minnesota game but allow him to return next weekend for Illinois. Talk with him and tell him he needs to cut the shit or he'll be right back on the bench.

  • #1 was not even a foul. An offensive player is allowed enough space to make strong movements with the ball, and he barely touched the guy. #2, I'm still undecided. I didn't have any sound, so I couldn't hear what espn was saying. I think that's a good thing, honestly. At first I thought it was definitely accidental, like he was falling. I still think that's possible. #3 was legitimate, and I agree with the ejection. HOWEVER, I still have my doubts on #2. Simply seeing #3 doesn't mean #2 was intentional. He could have been getting crap from MSU all game about it, and wanted to just throw a real one out of frustration. Who knows. But Dumes does always play with a chip on his shoulder, which I like. It gives him an edge. He needs to control himself better, but I don't think he's a dirty player some make him out to be. Like I said, I didn't hear the commentary, but ESPN has made a big deal about many elbow stories recently, and not all of them have panned out. If I had to guess, I'd say Dumes gets a 1 game suspension, just because it was on national television vs the Big 10's favorite bball child, MSU. He might deserve the suspension, he might not. I just hope he comes out firing in the next game he plays

  • DMJ

    In case you were wondering how much ESPN is going to play this up, they just mentioned it in a teaser for the 11pm EST Sportscenter.

    Something like: “A huge day of college hoops. Did the #1 team survive? A Hoosier throwing elbows [showing angle of Dumes' elbow to Suton's nuts], and a coach in tears [Nebraska over Texas].”

    The WWL is definitely gonna try to make a bigger story of this than it probably should be. Oh well.

  • Hoosier Fan

    What I have respected the most about Crean and the program he has looks to build all relies on CHARACTER. When building the foundation we cannot have anyone undermining that mission. If I am in Crean's shoes, it hurts, but Dumes has a serious talking to and sits out at least a game. IU will win again, we will be respected again, and we will see ourselves at the top of the pile again under Crean. What will make it great is it will be done with character, class, toughness, and will. Dumes, learn to wear the IU uniform.

  • jgongora86

    I'm really starting to dislike espn. They are like the ” big brother” in a george orwell novel. They manipulate things so they could feed things to an audience.

  • msdiu81

    Yank his scholarship after this season. We don't need anymore thugs playing for us. He will get no more love from me the rest of the way. Beginning with the NU game, he has established a pattern of behavior that is not what IU should not put up with nor is good for rebuilding our program. Yes he can score sometimes, but we'll have plenty of replacement power coming next year. Later Dumes.

  • silkyslim

    I concur, 1 to 5 game suspension for the poor choice.

    We are rebuilding our reputation as well as our team. We don't need that negative distraction or behavior on IU.

    A clear message must be sent, & consequences to drive the message home.

  • silkyslim

    I concur, 1 to 5 game suspension for the poor choice.

    We are rebuilding our reputation as well as our team. We don't need that negative distraction or behavior on IU.

    A clear message must be sent, & consequences to drive the message home.

  • AZdon

    After reviewing the game via DVR, I think the ejection was justified. IMO, the first elbow (end of first half) appeared to be accidental and inadvertent. Dumas was rightly given the benefit of the doubt.

    I could see the call on the elbow to Suton's crotch going either way. Natural running motion? Perhaps. Ed Hightower saw it that way. Again, Dumas get the benefit of the doubt.

    The final elbow certainly did appear to be intentional and flagrant. Again, IMO, the ejection was justified. He'd already gotten away with two elbows – either of which COULD have been called flagrant.

    I understand that the Hoosier team must be incredibly frustrated, however, that is no excuse. It's an honor and a privilege to wear the Cream and Crimson uniform. It's not a reward for thugs. We had enough of that last year.

  • AZdon

    It's INDIANA. For years every time Coach Knight had any kind of meltdown they played it up. Davis' meltdown at KY, likewise. Then the scumsucking Sampson took the athletic department to the all time low with his shennanigans, and ESPN was there to bad mouth Indiana.

    Perhaps it's jealousy. Bottom line, we don't need Dumas' cheap shots. I say suspend him. If he EVER does anything like that again, he's gone. For good.

  • Jim

    Oh please. Dumes was out of line, but come on. Dane Fife was worshiped by our fans, and he constantly threw elbows, played “dirty”, and for the love of God, he bit a player. Its the Big Ten. these things happen. Don't act like our players have never been involved in these types of things.

    And suggesting that he will get a five game suspension is just asinine.

  • generalfan89

    Mr. Dumes should be kicked off the team. This whole season we have seen his attitude. This is just the icing on the cake for me. Even if he is our leading scorer, we play better without him. The whole first half we hung with MSU. As soon as he came in, in the second half we began to fade. Either he changes fast or he is done with the team for this year and the years to come.

  • I didn't see these parts of the game, but if there's any question as to whether the elbows were intentional, then I think Crean has to sit Dumes for at least one game, maybe more. I wouldn't think that he needs to be kicked off the team, but a definite message needs to be sent.

    I know that's basically what others are saying. I'm just adding my little bit to it.

  • James

    Lets not all act like a bunch Kentucky fans and completely over react to one game and a lot of mounting frustration. Dumes has been a solid contributor and a good player for the Hoosiers this year and there is no reason to talk about getting rid of him. Suspend him? Sure do it…that ball shot was uncalled for and pretty bush. And there is no question that they were intentional because they obviously were. Im not saying that I, hoosier fans, or the coaching staff/administration should be ok with behavior like this…but get rid of him?? Come on now…
    Its been a tough season for the fans…so just think about how hard its been for the players.

  • silkyslim

    I concur, 1 to 5 game suspension for the poor choice.

    We are rebuilding our reputation as well as our team. We don't need that negative distraction or behavior on IU.

    A clear message must be sent, & consequences to drive the message home.

  • HoosierSmitty

    I'm not sure a one game suspension gets it done. Maybe a couple of games would suffice.

    Unlike everyone else, I'm not even convinced the first elbow (3rd personal foul) was unintentional. There wasn't much contact, but it appeared as if Dumes might have given a little extra extension on the elbow when he started to feel the contact.

    I've seen it several times this year from Dumes, and it's unacceptable. 3 times in one game is ridiculous.

  • HoosierSmitty

    I'm not sure a one game suspension gets it done. Maybe a couple of games would suffice.

    Unlike everyone else, I'm not even convinced the first elbow (3rd personal foul) was unintentional. There wasn't much contact, but it appeared as if Dumes might have given a little extra extension on the elbow when he started to feel the contact.

    I've seen it several times this year from Dumes, and it's unacceptable. 3 times in one game is ridiculous.

  • Duff

    :Yesterday absolutely erases all the good things Dumes did against Iowa. He has to sit out a couple of games to make sure everyone understands this crap doesn't happen at Indiana. I was completely embarassed as I watched his idiotic play.

  • JerryCT

    We did not need this especially on national TV.

    Dumes needs a teary eyed “Teddy Kennedy” Chappaquidick-like news conference and a public and private apology to MSU and to all of IU nation. Then a game suspension and no starting the rest of the year.

    The damage this does to Crean's reputation and IU is not worth Devan Dumes……he needs to know and feel that right now.

    As for the game, I feel I can see the weight room paying off in WIlliams, Roth, Jones and especially Taber and his newly acquired agility. They donot look like the same kids from early in the season

  • JerryCT

    We did not need this especially on national TV.

    Dumes needs a teary eyed “Teddy Kennedy” Chappaquidick-like news conference and a public and private apology to MSU and to all of IU nation. Then a game suspension and no starting the rest of the year.

    The damage this does to Crean's reputation and IU is not worth Devan Dumes……he needs to know and feel that right now.

    As for the game, I feel I can see the weight room paying off in WIlliams, Roth, Jones and especially Taber and his newly acquired agility. They donot look like the same kids from early in the season

  • April W

    I should start out by saying I am an MSU fan, who is also a Tom Crean fan and as such, cheer for IU whenever they aren't playing MSU. I was disappointed in the actions of Dumes. I understand it's been a frustrating season for the players but Crean is such a class act that I think you've got to handle yourself better just out of respect for your coach. I too thought the first elbow was unintentional and probably had some flopping from msu's walton. but the cheap shot to the groin of Suton? NOT a natural running motion and the third elbow just completely uncalled for. I have no doubt that coach Crean will take strong action over this. He does not need this kind of behavior when he's trying so hard to rebuild a glorious program like Indiana. Also as an aside, I was really impressed with how Indiana hung in there with my spartans in the first half. I know the second half was more lopsided but I really think IU is going to be a strong program probably quicker than a lot of people expect. Coach Crean will do great things with this program. Hats off to you.

  • MikeinNC

    He needs a couple game suspension to send a clear message…one of the key themes of this season is that we are bringing back true Indiana basketball and “playing the right way” even though we know the won/loss record is going to be very disappointing. Send the boy a clear message, I suspect that while he is out of the lineup we will be surprised with the way someone else steps up.

  • MikeinNC

    He needs a couple game suspension to send a clear message…one of the key themes of this season is that we are bringing back true Indiana basketball and “playing the right way” even though we know the won/loss record is going to be very disappointing. Send the boy a clear message, I suspect that while he is out of the lineup we will be surprised with the way someone else steps up.

  • JerryCT

    Agree. DO we need him to win ? Yes with about a 70% probability. On a scale of 1 to 10 winning is about a 2 in importance this year. Therefore he is worth about .7*2=1.4, . ………….. or not that much.

  • JerryCT

    Agree. DO we need him to win ? Yes with about a 70% probability. On a scale of 1 to 10 winning is about a 2 in importance this year. Therefore he is worth about .7*2=1.4, . ………….. or not that much.

  • Phillip

    Dumes should sit 5 games, apologize to MSU players, Coach Izzo and Hoosier fans. This behavior challenges everything Crean has put in place throughout the year both on and off the court and can NOT be tolerated and must be dealt with immediately.

  • Phillip

    Dumes should sit 5 games, apologize to MSU players, Coach Izzo and Hoosier fans. This behavior challenges everything Crean has put in place throughout the year both on and off the court and can NOT be tolerated and must be dealt with immediately.

  • HoosierSmitty

    I'm not sure a one game suspension gets it done. Maybe a couple of games would suffice.

    Unlike everyone else, I'm not even convinced the first elbow (3rd personal foul) was unintentional. There wasn't much contact, but it appeared as if Dumes might have given a little extra extension on the elbow when he started to feel the contact.

    I've seen it several times this year from Dumes, and it's unacceptable. 3 times in one game is ridiculous.

  • Duff

    :Yesterday absolutely erases all the good things Dumes did against Iowa. He has to sit out a couple of games to make sure everyone understands this crap doesn't happen at Indiana. I was completely embarassed as I watched his idiotic play.

  • JerryCT

    We did not need this especially on national TV.

    Dumes needs a teary eyed “Teddy Kennedy” Chappaquidick-like news conference and a public and private apology to MSU and to all of IU nation. Then a game suspension and no starting the rest of the year.

    The damage this does to Crean's reputation and IU is not worth Devan Dumes……he needs to know and feel that right now.

    As for the game, I feel I can see the weight room paying off in WIlliams, Roth, Jones and especially Taber and his newly acquired agility. They donot look like the same kids from early in the season

  • April W

    I should start out by saying I am an MSU fan, who is also a Tom Crean fan and as such, cheer for IU whenever they aren't playing MSU. I was disappointed in the actions of Dumes. I understand it's been a frustrating season for the players but Crean is such a class act that I think you've got to handle yourself better just out of respect for your coach. I too thought the first elbow was unintentional and probably had some flopping from msu's walton. but the cheap shot to the groin of Suton? NOT a natural running motion and the third elbow just completely uncalled for. I have no doubt that coach Crean will take strong action over this. He does not need this kind of behavior when he's trying so hard to rebuild a glorious program like Indiana. Also as an aside, I was really impressed with how Indiana hung in there with my spartans in the first half. I know the second half was more lopsided but I really think IU is going to be a strong program probably quicker than a lot of people expect. Coach Crean will do great things with this program. Hats off to you.

  • MikeinNC

    He needs a couple game suspension to send a clear message…one of the key themes of this season is that we are bringing back true Indiana basketball and “playing the right way” even though we know the won/loss record is going to be very disappointing. Send the boy a clear message, I suspect that while he is out of the lineup we will be surprised with the way someone else steps up.

  • tberry

    Obviously the elbows were intentional and that is not INDIANA.

    There needs to be a one game suspension and then not start at least the next game. Coach Crean needs to nip this type of behavior immediately and let all the players know what IU Sportsmanship and decorum is!!!

  • tberry

    Obviously the elbows were intentional and that is not INDIANA.

    There needs to be a one game suspension and then not start at least the next game. Coach Crean needs to nip this type of behavior immediately and let all the players know what IU Sportsmanship and decorum is!!!

  • AZdon

    Yeah, it;s been a tough year for the players… but you don't see Jones, Prichard, Taber or the others taking cheap bush-league shots at the other players… frustrated or not. Didn't we have enough of that crap last year with Sampson and the dope smoking, class skipping team?

    I say punish him and include the message that this is his ONLY chance. One more time of anything questionable and he's gone. Indiana basketball is much better than that… and it's certainly bigger than any one player, regardless of whether or not he's a “solid contributor”.

  • AZdon

    Yeah, it;s been a tough year for the players… but you don't see Jones, Prichard, Taber or the others taking cheap bush-league shots at the other players… frustrated or not. Didn't we have enough of that crap last year with Sampson and the dope smoking, class skipping team?

    I say punish him and include the message that this is his ONLY chance. One more time of anything questionable and he's gone. Indiana basketball is much better than that… and it's certainly bigger than any one player, regardless of whether or not he's a “solid contributor”.

  • Jim

    I'm sorry, but when has there ever been a 5 game suspension for throwing elbows? This is just getting ridiculous. This doesn't “damage” IU's reputation. He played stupid yesterday, and got caught, but this is hardly the first time an IU player has done these things (once again, Dane Fife, etc). Stop overreacting.

  • JerryCT

    Agree. DO we need him to win ? Yes with about a 70% probability. On a scale of 1 to 10 winning is about a 2 in importance this year. Therefore he is worth about .7*2=1.4, . ………….. or not that much.

  • Phillip

    Dumes should sit 5 games, apologize to MSU players, Coach Izzo and Hoosier fans. This behavior challenges everything Crean has put in place throughout the year both on and off the court and can NOT be tolerated and must be dealt with immediately.

  • MikeyD

    too cool…yes i did. suspend dumas for 1 game. that should do the trick. bad judgment but 1 game should do.

  • MikeyD

    too cool…yes i did. suspend dumas for 1 game. that should do the trick. bad judgment but 1 game should do.

  • RIC

    I see Dumas getting to know each and every step in Assembly Hall on a personal basis…I'm sure Coach Crean will deal with it internally, as it should be…Old School like Coach Knight!

  • RIC

    I see Dumas getting to know each and every step in Assembly Hall on a personal basis…I'm sure Coach Crean will deal with it internally, as it should be…Old School like Coach Knight!

  • Kelin Blab

    Give Dumes a game suspension and a solid warning.. no need to go overboard here….

  • Kelin Blab

    Give Dumes a game suspension and a solid warning.. no need to go overboard here….

  • MillaRed

    Pull his scholarship? Kick him off the team? 5 game suspension? I'll remind you folks this kid chose Indiana over Ohio State this year. The fact he walked into this rats nest of a season defines a lot of character. This guy has the potential to be All-Big Ten next season.

    Clearly he needs to chill out and we'll leave that to the coach. There is a certain 1-2 game suspension on the horizon and I would be shocked if we see anything close to this type of behavior in the future.

    To those of you on this blog that follow Purdue, Michigan State, Illinois etc……I personally have never visited one blog following your teams, because frankly I could care less. The fact you are on an INDIANA blog only confirms your infatuation with the program and the 5 banners hanging in the stands. We're all really shocked you think Dumes should receive a harsh punishment.

  • MillaRed

    Pull his scholarship? Kick him off the team? 5 game suspension? I'll remind you folks this kid chose Indiana over Ohio State this year. The fact he walked into this rats nest of a season defines a lot of character. This guy has the potential to be All-Big Ten next season.

    Clearly he needs to chill out and we'll leave that to the coach. There is a certain 1-2 game suspension on the horizon and I would be shocked if we see anything close to this type of behavior in the future.

    To those of you on this blog that follow Purdue, Michigan State, Illinois etc……I personally have never visited one blog following your teams, because frankly I could care less. The fact you are on an INDIANA blog only confirms your infatuation with the program and the 5 banners hanging in the stands. We're all really shocked you think Dumes should receive a harsh punishment.

  • silkyslim

    How about a one game suspension and 1000 laps ala 'Coach Carter' movie.
    Does that seem fair enough?

    Maybe he can run the new stadium steps until the cows come home.
    Just please have some kind of consequence to ensure the lesson is clearly learned.

    I am disappointed by this poor choice/behavior for the first time this year which for me has been an interesting & exciting work in progress.