Hoosier loss overshadowed by Dumes’ shenanigans

  • 02/07/2009 7:11 pm in

I considered boring you with another AP style recap of IU’s 75-47 loss at Michigan State, but as Devan Dumes was tossed shortly after throwing his third elbow of the game, I quickly changed direction.

I realize it’s a long season and the players are probably frustrated with the losses that are piling up. It’s not easy to come out each game, play hard and know no matter how well you play, you’re probably going to lose. But the behavior from Dumes was flat out unacceptable. I was willing to dismiss his elbow on Craig Moore during the Northwestern game as a lapse in judgment during the heat of battle.

After today, I’m left wondering if Dumes should be punished by either Indiana or the Big Ten. For those of you who missed the game, here’s a blow by blow recap of what went down:

  • 21 seconds into the game, Dumes is whistled for a foul.
  • At the 17:32 mark of the first half, he’s slapped with his second foul and heads to the bench.
  • Re-enters at the 12:44 mark and by the 12:03 mark, he’s whistled for his third foul (offensive).
  • With 16:31 remaining in the second half, a replay shows that Dumes elbowed Michigan State forward Goran Suton in the crotch during transition. The officials reviewed the play and decided to allow him to remain in the game, but ESPN announcers later revealed that they didn’t have access to the one replay that clearly showed the elbow was intentional.
  • At the 2:10 mark, Dumes was hit by an inadvertent elbow by Michigan State forward Tom Herzog and retaliated with an elbow of his own. It was his fifth foul and also a flagrant and Dumes was ejected.

I have no problem with guys competing and playing with an edge. But when you’re throwing unprovoked elbows, especially in the waning moments of a blowout loss, you’ve got all of the elements of a cheap shot. And that’s the last thing Tom Crean needs to have on his hands while trying to rebuild a program that, let’s face it, has lost some credibility with the events that transpired last season. He’s trying to rebuild the privelege of wearing the IU uniform that’s been missing as of late.

So my questions for you, ITH’ers, are as follows: Did you view the elbows as intentional? How, if at all, should Dumes be punished? Thoughts on those questions as well as your reaction to the game are welcome in the comments, boys and girls.

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  • dabig

    The first elbow wasn't intentional, and the last (attempted) elbow removed any doubt there may have been about the incident with Suton. It doesn't matter because the last incident in and of itself was enough to warrant punishment. Five game suspension and a personal apology from Dumes to Michigan and Michigan's team.

  • dabig

    The first elbow wasn't intentional, and the last (attempted) elbow removed any doubt there may have been about the incident with Suton. It doesn't matter because the last incident in and of itself was enough to warrant punishment. Five game suspension and a personal apology from Dumes to Michigan and Michigan's team.

  • dale11

    #1 was not intentional and shouldn't have been a foul. #2 and #3 were clearly intentional and i wouldn't be surprised if he misses a game.

  • dale11

    #1 was not intentional and shouldn't have been a foul. #2 and #3 were clearly intentional and i wouldn't be surprised if he misses a game.

  • raor

    I didn't see the first two fouls, so I can't comment on those. But the third foul (swinging his elbows with the ball) seemed a bit like a flop by the MSU player – there certainly was contact however. The elbow to Suton's nards certainly seemed in-character for the Dumes we've seen lately. But, I'm not as sold on it being intentional as ESPN's announcers were. I think Hightower giving Dumes the benefit of the doubt was the correct call.

    The final elbow, the flagrant one, absolutley warranted an ejection. In light of that foul alone (and especially considering Dumes' recent behavior) I think Dumes deserves a game suspension. I think he'll get it too, I just hope it comes from IU.

  • raor

    I didn't see the first two fouls, so I can't comment on those. But the third foul (swinging his elbows with the ball) seemed a bit like a flop by the MSU player – there certainly was contact however. The elbow to Suton's nards certainly seemed in-character for the Dumes we've seen lately. But, I'm not as sold on it being intentional as ESPN's announcers were. I think Hightower giving Dumes the benefit of the doubt was the correct call.

    The final elbow, the flagrant one, absolutley warranted an ejection. In light of that foul alone (and especially considering Dumes' recent behavior) I think Dumes deserves a game suspension. I think he'll get it too, I just hope it comes from IU.

  • ChiTownHoosier

    Dumes needs to sit AT LEAST one game, probably two. When Zack Novak from Michigan (and my hometown of Chesterton, IN) threw an elbow and was ejected against Ohio State he was forced to sit out a game. That was ONE elbow thrown, and from a kid on a team with something to lose.

    What I think is more important here though is continuing to set a tone of DISCIPLINE. Too often Discipline is the biggest problem in college athletics and after the shenanigans Under Mike Davis and He who's name we shall not speak, it is important to keep rebuilding our image. This is the first real discipline test, that we know of, for the new regime and I think it would speak highly of IU to pre-empt any possible Big Ten reprimand and take control of their players.

  • ChiTownHoosier

    Dumes needs to sit AT LEAST one game, probably two. When Zack Novak from Michigan (and my hometown of Chesterton, IN) threw an elbow and was ejected against Ohio State he was forced to sit out a game. That was ONE elbow thrown, and from a kid on a team with something to lose.

    What I think is more important here though is continuing to set a tone of DISCIPLINE. Too often Discipline is the biggest problem in college athletics and after the shenanigans Under Mike Davis and He who's name we shall not speak, it is important to keep rebuilding our image. This is the first real discipline test, that we know of, for the new regime and I think it would speak highly of IU to pre-empt any possible Big Ten reprimand and take control of their players.

  • IUED

    Get rid of him I would rather lose ugly than have someone playing dirty

  • IUED

    Get rid of him I would rather lose ugly than have someone playing dirty

  • Hardwood83

    First call was weak and completely unwarranted. The last one was a foul but not worth a suspension by itself. The Crotch-shot is what gets him a game off in my opinion, maybe more depending on his attitude & acceptance of it. They did fade down the stretch but it is remarkable how much better they are playing overall then 6 weeks ago. They still haven't reached their (limited) potential but I am proud of the continued effort and content that Crean is gonna get it done.

  • Hardwood83

    First call was weak and completely unwarranted. The last one was a foul but not worth a suspension by itself. The Crotch-shot is what gets him a game off in my opinion, maybe more depending on his attitude & acceptance of it. They did fade down the stretch but it is remarkable how much better they are playing overall then 6 weeks ago. They still haven't reached their (limited) potential but I am proud of the continued effort and content that Crean is gonna get it done.

  • #1 was unintentional, but the rest was unacceptable! Crean needs to sit him for at least 2 games before the Big 10 even gets involved. Dumes was lucky to still be playing after the elbow on Suton!

  • #1 was unintentional, but the rest was unacceptable! Crean needs to sit him for at least 2 games before the Big 10 even gets involved. Dumes was lucky to still be playing after the elbow on Suton!

  • dale11

    Side note — anyone see Knight's sweater on gameday?

  • dale11

    Side note — anyone see Knight's sweater on gameday?

  • jgongora86

    The only satisfaction one can get out of this season is that we played hard and played with honor. What Dumes did tarnishes something we were trying to recover from the past six years. I say kick him out for five games. No more excuses from us, or our basketball program.

  • jgongora86

    The only satisfaction one can get out of this season is that we played hard and played with honor. What Dumes did tarnishes something we were trying to recover from the past six years. I say kick him out for five games. No more excuses from us, or our basketball program.

  • peaychris

    i feel the same way… i think IU pre-samson (the knight days) always played tough but fair… Dumes is a reflection of the rebuliding process and a reflection on crean. i wouldnt mind a 5 gamer and if he comes back and pulls anything close to what he did today i would tell him to not the the door hit him on the way out. hey it might even help the scholarship situation..

  • peaychris

    i feel the same way… i think IU pre-samson (the knight days) always played tough but fair… Dumes is a reflection of the rebuliding process and a reflection on crean. i wouldnt mind a 5 gamer and if he comes back and pulls anything close to what he did today i would tell him to not the the door hit him on the way out. hey it might even help the scholarship situation..

  • DMJ

    Not like losing Dumes is going to be a blow to our NCAA tourney chances or anything. Crean can't afford to let this happen without punishment in his first year or it'll reflect poorly on the upcoming years. I'd sit him out for the Minnesota game but allow him to return next weekend for Illinois. Talk with him and tell him he needs to cut the shit or he'll be right back on the bench.

  • DMJ

    Not like losing Dumes is going to be a blow to our NCAA tourney chances or anything. Crean can't afford to let this happen without punishment in his first year or it'll reflect poorly on the upcoming years. I'd sit him out for the Minnesota game but allow him to return next weekend for Illinois. Talk with him and tell him he needs to cut the shit or he'll be right back on the bench.

  • #1 was not even a foul. An offensive player is allowed enough space to make strong movements with the ball, and he barely touched the guy. #2, I'm still undecided. I didn't have any sound, so I couldn't hear what espn was saying. I think that's a good thing, honestly. At first I thought it was definitely accidental, like he was falling. I still think that's possible. #3 was legitimate, and I agree with the ejection. HOWEVER, I still have my doubts on #2. Simply seeing #3 doesn't mean #2 was intentional. He could have been getting crap from MSU all game about it, and wanted to just throw a real one out of frustration. Who knows. But Dumes does always play with a chip on his shoulder, which I like. It gives him an edge. He needs to control himself better, but I don't think he's a dirty player some make him out to be. Like I said, I didn't hear the commentary, but ESPN has made a big deal about many elbow stories recently, and not all of them have panned out. If I had to guess, I'd say Dumes gets a 1 game suspension, just because it was on national television vs the Big 10's favorite bball child, MSU. He might deserve the suspension, he might not. I just hope he comes out firing in the next game he plays

  • #1 was not even a foul. An offensive player is allowed enough space to make strong movements with the ball, and he barely touched the guy. #2, I'm still undecided. I didn't have any sound, so I couldn't hear what espn was saying. I think that's a good thing, honestly. At first I thought it was definitely accidental, like he was falling. I still think that's possible. #3 was legitimate, and I agree with the ejection. HOWEVER, I still have my doubts on #2. Simply seeing #3 doesn't mean #2 was intentional. He could have been getting crap from MSU all game about it, and wanted to just throw a real one out of frustration. Who knows. But Dumes does always play with a chip on his shoulder, which I like. It gives him an edge. He needs to control himself better, but I don't think he's a dirty player some make him out to be. Like I said, I didn't hear the commentary, but ESPN has made a big deal about many elbow stories recently, and not all of them have panned out. If I had to guess, I'd say Dumes gets a 1 game suspension, just because it was on national television vs the Big 10's favorite bball child, MSU. He might deserve the suspension, he might not. I just hope he comes out firing in the next game he plays

  • DMJ

    In case you were wondering how much ESPN is going to play this up, they just mentioned it in a teaser for the 11pm EST Sportscenter.

    Something like: “A huge day of college hoops. Did the #1 team survive? A Hoosier throwing elbows [showing angle of Dumes' elbow to Suton's nuts], and a coach in tears [Nebraska over Texas].”

    The WWL is definitely gonna try to make a bigger story of this than it probably should be. Oh well.

  • DMJ

    In case you were wondering how much ESPN is going to play this up, they just mentioned it in a teaser for the 11pm EST Sportscenter.

    Something like: “A huge day of college hoops. Did the #1 team survive? A Hoosier throwing elbows [showing angle of Dumes' elbow to Suton's nuts], and a coach in tears [Nebraska over Texas].”

    The WWL is definitely gonna try to make a bigger story of this than it probably should be. Oh well.

  • Hoosier Fan

    What I have respected the most about Crean and the program he has looks to build all relies on CHARACTER. When building the foundation we cannot have anyone undermining that mission. If I am in Crean's shoes, it hurts, but Dumes has a serious talking to and sits out at least a game. IU will win again, we will be respected again, and we will see ourselves at the top of the pile again under Crean. What will make it great is it will be done with character, class, toughness, and will. Dumes, learn to wear the IU uniform.

  • jgongora86

    I'm really starting to dislike espn. They are like the ” big brother” in a george orwell novel. They manipulate things so they could feed things to an audience.

  • jgongora86

    I'm really starting to dislike espn. They are like the ” big brother” in a george orwell novel. They manipulate things so they could feed things to an audience.

  • msdiu81

    Yank his scholarship after this season. We don't need anymore thugs playing for us. He will get no more love from me the rest of the way. Beginning with the NU game, he has established a pattern of behavior that is not what IU should not put up with nor is good for rebuilding our program. Yes he can score sometimes, but we'll have plenty of replacement power coming next year. Later Dumes.

  • msdiu81

    Yank his scholarship after this season. We don't need anymore thugs playing for us. He will get no more love from me the rest of the way. Beginning with the NU game, he has established a pattern of behavior that is not what IU should not put up with nor is good for rebuilding our program. Yes he can score sometimes, but we'll have plenty of replacement power coming next year. Later Dumes.

  • dabig

    The first elbow wasn't intentional, and the last (attempted) elbow removed any doubt there may have been about the incident with Suton. It doesn't matter because the last incident in and of itself was enough to warrant punishment. Five game suspension and a personal apology from Dumes to Michigan and Michigan's team.

  • dale11

    #1 was not intentional and shouldn't have been a foul. #2 and #3 were clearly intentional and i wouldn't be surprised if he misses a game.

  • raor

    I didn't see the first two fouls, so I can't comment on those. But the third foul (swinging his elbows with the ball) seemed a bit like a flop by the MSU player – there certainly was contact however. The elbow to Suton's nards certainly seemed in-character for the Dumes we've seen lately. But, I'm not as sold on it being intentional as ESPN's announcers were. I think Hightower giving Dumes the benefit of the doubt was the correct call.

    The final elbow, the flagrant one, absolutley warranted an ejection. In light of that foul alone (and especially considering Dumes' recent behavior) I think Dumes deserves a game suspension. I think he'll get it too, I just hope it comes from IU.

  • ChiTownHoosier

    Dumes needs to sit AT LEAST one game, probably two. When Zack Novak from Michigan (and my hometown of Chesterton, IN) threw an elbow and was ejected against Ohio State he was forced to sit out a game. That was ONE elbow thrown, and from a kid on a team with something to lose.

    What I think is more important here though is continuing to set a tone of DISCIPLINE. Too often Discipline is the biggest problem in college athletics and after the shenanigans Under Mike Davis and He who's name we shall not speak, it is important to keep rebuilding our image. This is the first real discipline test, that we know of, for the new regime and I think it would speak highly of IU to pre-empt any possible Big Ten reprimand and take control of their players.

  • IUED

    I THOUGHT WE GOT RID OF ALL THE BAD SEED WHEN COACH CREAN SHOWED UP. I THINK HE NEEDS TO BE DISMISSED.

  • IUED

    Get rid of him I would rather lose ugly than have someone playing dirty

  • AZdon

    After reviewing the game via DVR, I think the ejection was justified. IMO, the first elbow (end of first half) appeared to be accidental and inadvertent. Dumas was rightly given the benefit of the doubt.

    I could see the call on the elbow to Suton's crotch going either way. Natural running motion? Perhaps. Ed Hightower saw it that way. Again, Dumas get the benefit of the doubt.

    The final elbow certainly did appear to be intentional and flagrant. Again, IMO, the ejection was justified. He'd already gotten away with two elbows – either of which COULD have been called flagrant.

    I understand that the Hoosier team must be incredibly frustrated, however, that is no excuse. It's an honor and a privilege to wear the Cream and Crimson uniform. It's not a reward for thugs. We had enough of that last year.

  • AZdon

    It's INDIANA. For years every time Coach Knight had any kind of meltdown they played it up. Davis' meltdown at KY, likewise. Then the scumsucking Sampson took the athletic department to the all time low with his shennanigans, and ESPN was there to bad mouth Indiana.

    Perhaps it's jealousy. Bottom line, we don't need Dumas' cheap shots. I say suspend him. If he EVER does anything like that again, he's gone. For good.

  • AZdon

    It's INDIANA. For years every time Coach Knight had any kind of meltdown they played it up. Davis' meltdown at KY, likewise. Then the scumsucking Sampson took the athletic department to the all time low with his shennanigans, and ESPN was there to bad mouth Indiana.

    Perhaps it's jealousy. Bottom line, we don't need Dumas' cheap shots. I say suspend him. If he EVER does anything like that again, he's gone. For good.

  • Hardwood83

    First call was weak and completely unwarranted. The last one was a foul but not worth a suspension by itself. The Crotch-shot is what gets him a game off in my opinion, maybe more depending on his attitude & acceptance of it. They did fade down the stretch but it is remarkable how much better they are playing overall then 6 weeks ago. They still haven't reached their (limited) potential but I am proud of the continued effort and content that Crean is gonna get it done.

  • Jim

    Oh please. Dumes was out of line, but come on. Dane Fife was worshiped by our fans, and he constantly threw elbows, played “dirty”, and for the love of God, he bit a player. Its the Big Ten. these things happen. Don't act like our players have never been involved in these types of things.

    And suggesting that he will get a five game suspension is just asinine.

  • #1 was unintentional, but the rest was unacceptable! Crean needs to sit him for at least 2 games before the Big 10 even gets involved. Dumes was lucky to still be playing after the elbow on Suton!

  • dale11

    Side note — anyone see Knight's sweater on gameday?

  • jgongora86

    The only satisfaction one can get out of this season is that we played hard and played with honor. What Dumes did tarnishes something we were trying to recover from the past six years. I say kick him out for five games. No more excuses from us, or our basketball program.

  • J Flash

    Dabig, if you really think that he should get 5 games than you need to get your head out of your female reproduction organ.

    The fact is that the 2nd one looked pretty bad from the TV angle but the other angle showed him just getting position, the first eblow WAS A DEFENSIVE FOUL

    If any of our white Indiana bred players would have done that, it would have been “playing tough”

    he WILL GET ONE GAME, and he deserves it.

  • generalfan89

    Mr. Dumes should be kicked off the team. This whole season we have seen his attitude. This is just the icing on the cake for me. Even if he is our leading scorer, we play better without him. The whole first half we hung with MSU. As soon as he came in, in the second half we began to fade. Either he changes fast or he is done with the team for this year and the years to come.

  • generalfan89

    Mr. Dumes should be kicked off the team. This whole season we have seen his attitude. This is just the icing on the cake for me. Even if he is our leading scorer, we play better without him. The whole first half we hung with MSU. As soon as he came in, in the second half we began to fade. Either he changes fast or he is done with the team for this year and the years to come.

  • I didn't see these parts of the game, but if there's any question as to whether the elbows were intentional, then I think Crean has to sit Dumes for at least one game, maybe more. I wouldn't think that he needs to be kicked off the team, but a definite message needs to be sent.

    I know that's basically what others are saying. I'm just adding my little bit to it.

  • I didn't see these parts of the game, but if there's any question as to whether the elbows were intentional, then I think Crean has to sit Dumes for at least one game, maybe more. I wouldn't think that he needs to be kicked off the team, but a definite message needs to be sent.

    I know that's basically what others are saying. I'm just adding my little bit to it.