Good, Bad and Ugly: UK – Open Thread

  • 12/13/2008 6:15 pm in

That was awful. Wait, it was worse that that. What’s the word I’m looking for here…Horrendous, Atrocious, Deplorable. All of those work, so take your pick. With Sir Ryan out of commission this evening, it’s time to open up this edition of Good, Bad and Ugly. Have fun out there, kids.

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  • dale11

    That first half was… we are sorely missing a point guard… pritchard struggled big time… kentucky really isnt that good… we covered the spread, thats the only decent thing to take away from it.

  • Ryan_T


    I, for one, am already sick of all the people commenting on IU's lack of success already this season. Anyone who has REMOTELY followed Indiana basketball even for the last few months KNOWS that this year is going to be a major restructuring and rebuilding effort, and that each and every game played will be very difficult and challenging and unsightly as compared to years past. I'm even more distraught that this is coming from one of the authors of this IU basketball blog. You KNOW what this season is about, and you know how its going to turn out. Don't be so naive and expect flawless basketball to be played by a bunch of 18-19 year old kids who have been thrust onto a national stage. I don't mind the critiques and the talk about “what we could've potentially better,” but to say things like “Horrendous, Atrocious, Deplorable” are quite demeaning to these kids… especially since you're obviously a fan yourself (otherwise you probably wouldn't be writing on this blog). I'm sick of the negativity already and we haven't even hit the Big 10 season. If you think this team is so terrible, awful, and difficult to watch–then DON'T. But quit ruining it for the rest of us.

  • TomCoverdaleIUHero

    You people are so hypocritical oh this year is going to be bad we wont be good. Then why be upset about losing to Kentucky at CoRUPPt Arena with 3 freshman starters and two walk-ons starting. The team never gave up till the last second they played with passion and hustle and thats all i ask of them this year not wins and losses but show me they want to play for Indiana and respect the coach and its fans by playing hard for them every game. If it wasnt for Kentucky start 11-13 this may have been close people they never stopped trying and they are going to improve.

  • SanDiegoHoosier

    It's easy to find negatives in a blowout loss like today's, but I think we can see a few positives. For starters, whatever Coach Crean said at halftime seemed to work, as the Hoosiers put up 41 second-half points against a defense that covered them like blanket in the first half. I hate to use the term “moral victory,” but we “won” the second half 41-36. Also Roth is becoming fun to watch from behind the line with his range. He shot 3 of 6 today.

    We have to improve on the line though. Under 50% is inexcusable…

  • HoosierInTheVille

    Well I didn't quite get my Christmas wish, (IU beating UK), I guess I'll have to settle for a TV, dang. I have to admit though, I found myself getting excited during the second half. Obviously I knew we wouldn't win, but it is fun to see these guys trying so hard. Roth's range is unbelievable. He needs to play more. Anyway, Go Hoosiers!

  • maemak0805

    i love iu bball and i will watch every game. The effort they gave in the 2nd half was amazing. With this team we have to focus on the positive things and not dwell in the negative

  • generalfan89

    I agree this blog is negative. Everyone needs to remember this is a brand new team. It could always be worse, we could still have Mike Davis.

  • NC Fat Boy

    Well, I thought if they would have gone for it on 4th and 1 and 4th and 2 in the first half, they could have had 21 at the half instead of 13…. oh, wait, that was a different Hoosier game, wasn't it ?

    Didn't get to see the start of the game due to the OT of Memphis/Georgetown.

    In all seriousness, these guys are great. They struggled mightily early. While the turnovers were pointed out often on the telecast, Kentucky was doing their best to keep up. IU just couldn't knock down the shots. If the shooting percentage had been near 50%, they would have been in the game at halftime.

    As noted, IU won the second half. They protected the ball and played much better. Dumes and Williams were active. Jones was rusty, but it's good to see him back. Keep shooting Daniel! While you may not be converting going to the bucket, it will open up the offense. Pritchard fought valiantly.

    I'm proud of these guys… a rough start and they hung in there and Kentucky could never completely put them away.


  • MikeyD

    Ryan…you are my Boy. After reading what alex wrote, I was furious. Well said my friend. I live in Georgia, and I was thrilled just to see the game. I would have thought a professional would have used adjectives such as “struggled…faltered..miscued” Come on alex!!! Enough about you already. These boys have a mountain few (if ever any) teams have looked up. What an effort boys! UK impressed me…wow…long…fast..athletic. We never gave up. We played harder than they did. I'm sure the UK players congratulated them all…much more than can be said for you alex. I have said too much. Good job boys…keep it up!

  • There seems to be a bit of anger here towards me and I can understand it a bit. However, this tone of this blog is pro-IU for the most part and more than anything, I, like any fan, was upset following the loss today. Rest assured I was not trying to take a cheap shot at the team.

  • Your “CoRUPPt Arena” joke must be a knee-jerk reaction. Shall I crank out the cell phone jokes? Nonsense. Nobody wants to have a cheater on their team, and nobody is proud of any sort of history of cheating.

    You team played bravely, and I commend them for showing the effort and the heart I expected them to bring to Rupp. You can tell that today the Wildcats were much better adjusted team, and was able to out-talent Indiana on several aspects of the game. Kentucky can’t expect to play a crazy tempo (like the first 5 minutes of the game) and hang with more disciplined teams.

    I grew up in Western Kentucky on the Ohio River shoreline. I am very content that for this year there will be more UK stuff flying in Southern Indiana. Walking around Tell City in my Big Blue Starter jacket in 1991 was just stellar.

    You guys have a long season ahead, and I hope that once your team gets better adjusted to the offense, you’ll be able to surprise a few teams in the Big Ten. I have much respect for ITH and their readers, and I hope you guys pour on the love for your candy-striped soldiers this year. Good luck, Hoosiers, and we’ll see you again next year.

  • tarheelhoosier

    After that first 32-6, if someone had told you IU would outscore UK 48-40 the rest of the way, would you have believed them?

  • joe

    I don’t care if we lose by 100 this year as long as they are still playing hard. I love IU bball and this fresh new start and I will watch every game. GO IU!

  • Ryan_T

    Its all about the word choice.

  • I’d like to see Roth move a little more in the offense. In my opinion, at this point he’s not able to create his own shot and would benefit from more screens and quicker ball rotations. He’s got a beautiful shot, though, he just needs to use it.

  • AP

    “Horrendous, Atrocious, Deplorable” should be used to describe your take on the game. In case you missed it, other than Taber and Finkelmeier, we LOST OUR ENTIRE TEAM FROM LAST YEAR. Ring any bells? Remember, our leading returning scorer, a former walk-on, had 30 points total last year? If that was Armon Bassett or Jamarcus Ellis turning the ball over, you’d have a point. But we ask a freshman walk-on to usually play 35+ minutes at point guard, we have a JC transfer turnover machine getting the majority of the minutes at the 2, we have freshmen backing up freshmen, etc, etc, etc…is there any point explaining this to you? Last week against the fifth-ranked team in the nation, a baseball player was the first guy off the IU bench. Did you know that? Almost every player on our roster is exactly 10 games into his college career. Did you know that? If the players stopped husting, fine–criticize away. But they never did. We committed just 5 turnovers in the 2nd half, and outscored them by 5. For a bunch of freshman, and for a team with zero size (not to mention in front of a hostile crowd of almost 24,000), that seems pretty good to me. Ya know, like we have a good coach, and the players didn’t quit, silly stuff like that. But I’m sure you’re of the opinion Kentucky didn’t try in the 2nd half, and got disinterested. Well I’m of the opinion Billy Clyde remembers, like I do, that we beat them worst last year than they beat us this year. And that was with them having 2 senior guards (Bradley and Crawford), and us without our starting backcourt (Bassett and Gordon). (Side note: I’d hate to think how you would’ve described the intracacies of that loss had the situation been reversed. You might’ve needed to invent new words to properly express your displeasure.)One more thing: Coach Crean has a radio show on Mondays at 7. Why don’t you call in and use the same adjectives you did above? I’m sure he’d love to hear your thoughtful analysis.

  • cooper

    Some of you people are insane, I'll gladly defend what Alex said. Some of you are just homers and think anything critical is negative IU or not supporting the team. The sheer fact of the matter is most of that game today was pathetic and horrible. UK lost to VMI, they are not a great team or even a real good team. I didn't expect IU to win but I expected them to play better than that. To be down to them 26-4 is embarassing, and to have more TO than FG is bad. I'm tired of the same old rhetoric on here of atleast they played hard, I'm glad they play hard they SHOULD play hard. There is nothing wrong with being critical of bad play, and for the most part what we saw was bad play today. I fully support this team and will always support IU but I have no problem calling them out if they play bad. If you think that makes me a lesser fan I could care less

  • hoosier 4 life

    As crazy as this sounds, Verdell Jones should just red-shirt. He isnt ready in any aspect of the game to play D-1 ball. maybe my expectations were just to high.

    hoosier nation, we HAVE to stay positive and battle through this along with the team. We will be better because of this game, maybe it will prepare us to play at PU and UI and get a win. i wanna hear bruce make up an excuse this year too.

  • MikeinNC

    I would really like to see Crean pick one upcoming game against a heavily favored opponent where we have nothing to lose (that doesn't narrow it down much, I know) and say this to the team: “guys, our goal for this game is to have less than 10 turnovers, shoot 70% from the free throw line, and have as many rebounds as the other guys. I literally don't care how many points we score, how many they score or anything else, in fact I don't even want to pay attention to the score or talk about it – we are only going to focus during the game on those 3 measures and nothing out, and let the chips fall where they may.”

    Personally, I'd be curious to see what would happen.

  • Cooper

    I will defend Alex on this one and I don’t know him from anyone else on here. Some of you people are just complete homers and don’t want to say anything negative. The sheer fact is that performance was Horrible, Crappy, Sucky and whatever other negative word you want to say is. UK lost to VMI they aren’t a great team, I have no problem losing to them but to be down 26-4 is an embarassment, to have more turnovers than field goals is awful, to see so many dunks from the opposing team is pathetic. I realize its not a good team but that fact is teams that aren’t talented don’t turn it over as much as IU, and don’t make many of the same mistakes over and over. Nothing Alex said was wrong or negative. It was true. The team does not get better by saying oh well they played hard, I’m tired of hearing that, they SHOULD play hard. They should stop making the same mistakes or atleast as many of the same mistakes, until then there is nothing wrong with being critical of bad play. Many times they have been commended for decent play even when losing. I knew we would take our lumps this year but don’t expect me or anyone else to be ok with it. If you think that makes me less an IU fan I don’t really care. I’d say the opposite is true

  • taweaver

    You need to get a grip. No one is saying you can't criticize and no one is being pollyannish here. The point is you have to have perspective and context when criticizing this team. Did we play poorly at the beginning? Sure. No one is arguing otherwise. But the point is, while Kentucky may not be a great team — they are a TEAM. Meaning they've got a lot of experience and talent — while we're fielding a team that's played a grand total of NINE games together. How can you possibly expect them to play without issues after nine games? Some people give lip service to being “patient” and expecting “rough patches” but then when it actually occurs you revert back to being an impatient fanatic with unreasonable expectations.

    Look we played poorly at the outset in one of the toughest venues in the country with a bunch of freshmen and walk-on's against an experienced team. But we bounced back, made it respectable, and showed some grit. Any reasonable fan of IU should recognize this.

  • HoosierSmitty

    You know what…it was definitely all those adjectives…

    However, I've seen more experienced teams completely fold after a start like that. We could have lost this game by 50 points had the team not continued to fight.

    As others have already said, we “won” the second half and made the final result look respectable to those who didn't watch. We also only turned the ball over 5 times in the second half, which is great.

    I'm sure Kentucky's players lost their intensity in the 2nd half, but that's not the point. The point is that IU made halftime adjustments and looked much better after that horrendous stretch to open the game.

    I predicted 7-5 to open the non-conference season and with a couple of home victories, that's still possible. I would say that's very respectable for this team so far.

  • MikeyD

    The thing is, most of us weren't upset…just the opposite…what an effort!

  • SteveEyl

    I understand they are totally overmanned, and can't play d on real div one athletes, and that they play hard and all that.

    But I don't really see why all that means we should be turning the ball over 20+ times a game.

    I hope I'm “allowed” to say that.

  • HoosierSmitty

    I agree.

    I try to look at the silver lining…and just remember that a majority of those turnovers were very early in the game, so at least we got it under control eventually.

    I'd like to see us get down to under 15 a game. That's something to shoot for in these next two games…slow it down and play under control…eliminate the unforced turnovers.

    Crean wants these guys to get out run when they can, but you just can't be a running team when the teams you're playing against are twice your size and speed.

  • Mark

    10 games into the season, am I the only person that disagrees with our starting lineup and rotation??? Daniel Moore could not be a starting point guard on a D2 nor D3 school much less IU. Even when V.Jones was healthy, Moore was getting 25+mins. Before the KY game Moore had 36 assts to 34 turnovers. The #1 qualification for a pg is “decision-making skills”, and Moore has none(unless you consider consistently running along the baseline and jumping in the air making errant passes as a skill). He is a defensive liability, has no jumpshot and cannot run an offense. I love the kid’s hustle but he is a liability on both sides of the ball. Relegate him to the “sparkplug off the bench role” (see E.Suhr) and lets focus on getting a the best players on the court as much as possible. Even if V.Jones can’t play many mins yet, M.Story can run the offense at point. Being one of our best offensive players, this puts the ball in his hands more and “lack of size” is not an issue on either side of the ball.
    #2. Why is our best 3 point shooter barely averaging 15 mins a game?? And when Roth is in the game, where are his screens,picks, or any offensive play-calls for the kid?? He lacks the ability to create his own shot, but that sure didn’t stop the success of a former player named Alford…
    #3 Can we get Jobe some more mins?? Sure the kid lacks any basketball skill whatsoever, but you can’t teach size. A 7-footer in the middle of a zone defense (which we should be playing most of the time) will definitely limit the highlight reel dunks that teams are posterizing our kids with…He might learn the game and improve more if he gets more mins.
    #4 I’d like to see Crean do a little less encouraging and more coaching. Coddling the young guys will only hold them back from their potential. Don’t get in Story’s face and bench him for one mistake and continue to let Moore turn the ball over whenever he wants without any disciplinary remarks from the coach. After barely scoring any points in the first 8 mins of the KY game with more turnovers than points, bench the starting 5 and bring in the next 5 off the bench to get their attention. I know this will be a slow and frustrating season but lets at least give our team the best chance of competing in each game and not being afraid to coach for W’s.

  • TomCoverdaleIUHero

    And ill be proud to walk around evansville in 2008 with my IU gear on everyday

  • silkyslim

    Young inexperienced teams can often get blitzed & struggle at the beginning of games especially on the road.
    Though I was disappointed by IU's start (especially against KU, a team I love our boys to beat,) I was impressed by the 2nd half performance & I am encouraged by the progress of IU.
    I suggest all to view the games with more REALISTIC expectations as they cheer for the glory of ol' IU & show some patience as the team struggles through the growing pains.

  • TomCoverdaleIUHero

    And ill be proud to walk around evansville in 2008 with my IU gear on everyday

  • silkyslim

    Young inexperienced teams can often get blitzed & struggle at the beginning of games especially on the road.
    Though I was disappointed by IU's start (especially against KU, a team I love our boys to beat,) I was impressed by the 2nd half performance & I am encouraged by the progress of IU.
    I suggest all to view the games with more REALISTIC expectations as they cheer for the glory of ol' IU & show some patience as the team struggles through the growing pains.