Heard this last weekend. Fink's a good buddy of mine and he said no way he comes back. Sorry for not posting this earlier ive been real busy. Fuc*

I don't get it...he would have had the spot light and good coaching. We really need another big body now because there could be a lot of bricks to be boarded...

I'll be interested to see where he ends up.

I understand some of these guys built a bond with McCallum, but the drop off from IU to Detroit-Mercy is not worth that bond, as far as I'm concerned.

I can see transferring to a mid-major like Butler or Gonzaga that competes every year, but why go to mid-major that is also rebuilding?

Call me crazy, but I think Kentucky may be where he ends up.

Didn't his brother and Gillespe have a somewhat rocky year together? Maybe the relationship ended well with Kentucky's late run.

i'd throw xavier in there as a possible destination

I would guess Kentucky as well, but haven't heard anything about how his brother and Gillespe got along. Wouldn't that be a double slap in the face...

im not suprised at all. It actually suproses me more that he lasted this long. His brother butted heads and had an extremely hard time adjusting to Billy G at UofK. Coach C demands Discipline and hard work as does Billy G. That's something that took Joe Crawford the whole year to comply with UofK. I figured once Jordan went home he wouldn't come back.

You're kinda right, but kinda wrong. Last year, Joe Crawford had difficulty getting into Billy Gillispie's system. But his progress was hindered by an injury he had early in the year, AND the fact that the whole friggin' team had problems getting into Billy Gillispie's system. Joe was accused of acting stubborn by members of the media, but Gillsipie defended him. Once the team finally caught on -- and Billy adjusted his system to fit the personnel better -- they really took off. Joe Crawford said this at our NCAA loss to Marquette:

"He's done more for me than a lot of people in my life," Crawford said. "He changed the outlook everyone had on me. He changed me as a person. He got me believing. He's done so much for me and I love him for that. I don't know how I could repay him, ever."

That was after just one year with Gillispie. So maybe the Crawford family was impressed by Joe's turnaround and want the same with Jordan? I don't know that. I think Jordan might fit the "lead guard" type responsibilities Gillispie wants, but I'm not for sure about Jordan's assist and court management ability. And Kentucky has plenty of depth at the 2-guard spot.

Edit: I forgot to mention one thing. If Jordan comes to UK, I honestly fear for his life in 2009-10 when we return to Assembly Hall. I don't see how he makes it from the bus to the locker room without two gunshot wounds. (I keed, I keed!)

So, a couple of tasteless jokes as I part:

* You think CBS is trying to shuffle this year's UK/IU game off national TV? Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if they did.

* Those chants of "Jor-dan's Bet-ter" back in Assembly Hall will be really, really stinging if Jordan chooses UK. Just sayin'.

Stay strong, Hoosier faithful. I may passionately want your team to lose, but I take no joy from you guys suffering from the aftershocks of a cheater.

i honestly cannot believe it -- i thought he would have loved being in the spotlight next season...

BigA: Can you start a new poll on the homepage that reads "Will Indiana win more than 12 games next season?"

...i think that whole 20 games poll is now so far out of reach we should re-tally

So I open up my email and here's the first thing I see:

Subject: Tom Crean on Jordan Crawford

Body: "Jordan Crawford and his family informed us today that he will not return to Indiana University."

Not.good.

Can someone look into who is advising these kids? I mean seriously Holman and Crawford would have been the big men on campus next season, and they just walk? Someone check and see if Ray McCallum has been contacting Crawford, on the other hand, nevermind. The Kelvin Sampson era has officially ended, we have guys that want to be here right now and that is the most important thing. Good luck J.C.

I'm sick to my stomach

Starting to not believe that crean is as good of a recuiter as we all thought...they needed to keep him

Not a good recruiter? What are u talking about? Get your facts straight

Please look at the history with his brother and how that went down. jordan is younger and even less disciplined than his older bro and he ended up riding the bench as a senior and as the best player on the team.

haha that's funny!! im sure you have been really involved in reading ITH everyday like we all do -- because if you have, you can clearly see (and read!) how GOOD of a recruiter he is ...

Yeah, because getting ten scholarship players over two seasons in an abbreviated recruiting cycle with self-imposed recruiting sanctions is definitely a sign of piss-poor recruiting. Not to mention the invited walk-ons who now look a little less like they'll just be fingers stuck in dams.

Yep, time to fire Tom Crean. This man just cannot connect with the types of athletes Indiana needs in order to become once again one of the top programs in the nation. Hey...I hear Sean Sutton's not doing much these days.

Don't let the door hit him in the ass, I'm glad all of the trash has been swept out the door. Is this really a suprise to anyone? Crawford ran around with Bassett, once he went home it was a done deal. I think Crean knew this all along, now we know why he has been heavy on guards. I don't care how bad the team will be next season, I for one will enjoy watching good kids develop into great players in the B10!! Go Hoosiers

Easy with the hyperbole. None of these kids are "trash," and least of all Crawford who clearly had the grades and work ethic that met the standards of Coach Crean and the new staff. While each one of the dismissed players has to be held accountable for their actions, I think it's very clear that the lax tone set from the top (read as Sampson) was the driving force for the problems that befell the '07-'08 Hoosiers.

I've always been of the opinion that Crawford could have developed into a Big Ten POTY candidate and am truly sad/angry to see him go. It seems to me he'll be a highly coveted transfer candidate and should have his pick of quite a few select programs that could use help at the 2... I'm very curious to see where he ends up.

Crawford is a victim of circumstances and I harbor no ill will towards him whatsoever. Considering those circumstances I think he displayed a lot of the "Hoosier values" that people on this board (myself included) feel define the identity of the program. I plan to follow his career closely and hope he succeeds wherever he lands.

victim of circumstances? He's just mad cause all his boyz are gone and he wont be able to run around campus getting stoned anymore! I wont miss him a bit! The team was out of control last year and a fresh start needed to happen!

And this clearly was all Crawford's doing. No outside forces working on him at all. Crawford was the cancer that caused this team to fall apart down the stretch. Yep.

I really loved Crawford and his potential so I agree with you whole heartedly. Had he stayed he could have been a legend ala DJ White.

I also am refreshed that we are on a new page completely, unfortunately that page is now the preface instead of chapter one.

No need to question Crean's abilities on this one .

I gotta chime in here. I can't stand this attitude of some Hoosier fans. I don't know if this was your attitude, but it seems like this happens a lot.

"Bassett is great, I really think he can be a leader and has All Big-Ten potential". Then Bassett gets kicked off and the sentiment is, "good ridance, he was KS trash".

"Holman has real potential, Crean will teach him and really maximize it", then Holman transfers and, "Holman is trash, I didn't want him anyways."

Now with Crawford. I might be wrong, but I remember the vast majority of the recent posts commenting how much potential Crawford has, and how he is better than Gordon.

When you're a freshmen on a college basketball team, especially the level of Indiana, it's very easy to get caught up in the hysteria and the partying. You see upperclassmen skip classes (you know we all skipped classes at some point) and you think it's ok for you to do to and before you know it your grades are in the crapper.

I think there were one or two bad seeds on this team, and the younger guys got caught up in it. There not bad people or bad kids, and with the proper leadership would have been great players at IU.

accountability! maturity! respect! that is what I want in a team! And I am sure that is all TC asked for. Obviously none of the "youngsters" could handle such simple demands. And if you have heard the rumors that I have heard you would not be so eager give them a pass! Maybe trash is a strong word, but these are not missled individuals they are grown ups.

The problem with to many college athletes today is that they feel they are entitled to something. They are not entitled to anything, they must put in the work and go by the rules just like everyone else, if that is to much to ask then CYA.

First of all they're not adults. I know I wasn't when I was in college.

For anyone that has played a sport in college, you know that 2 or 3 bad apples can influence the whole team. I've seen freshmen that were good kids and probably would have been good players, end up kicked out of school because they got caught up in what a couple disgruntled upperclassmen were doing.

We all know Sampson did not run a tight ship, which makes kids even more prone to this happening. I'm not trying to give them a free pass. Every kids can make their own decision. When I was in similar situations I chose not to let the bad apples derail me, but that's not an easy decision. I lay most of the blame on Sampson, and think calling the kids trash uncalled for.

"these are not missled individuals they are grown ups."

Yes, because we all know that adults never ever get misled. Peer pressure ends shortly after middle school, right?

"The problem with to many college athletes today is that they feel they are entitled to something."

They are entitled to something: not having to suffer the insults of morons on the internet with whom they've never had any contact and who hide behind assumed names, insulting them for making a decision that they feel is right because it doesn't fit in with anonymous poster's archaic view of the world.

Blah, Blah, Blah! ... poor kids they had no leadership, what did Dan try to do? And look what it got him. TC is no fool, he is cleaning house and I love it! Keep making excuses for these poor missled "kids"

yours truly
w. bowling

This doesn't even matter. I'm glad to get some fresh faces into the program with no connection to Sampson. Were not gonna be that good for a couple years and thats right when Crawford would have been graduating. Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. Hoosierbeat I'm still laughing at your comment.

in a few years all these missing players will be unanswerable trivia questions from the Sampson firing era. .Me ? I'm following coach Crean "it's Indiana" it really is. He needs our support this year. HOOSIERS!!

Damn Right!!!!!!!!

Hell yeah!

This is really bad news, because Crawford was a good scorer, with good size, and a sort-of endearing "flare" for the dramatic (at least offensively).

I don't think he was as good as some comments over the last months have made him seem, but I understand where everyone was coming from...when you are the only known scoring commodity on the roster, you start to look irreplaceable. Remember, he was sloppy at times, and played lethargic defense. But, all in all, this is a big loss...another one. I can't say I'll be rooting for JC wherever he goes, but I won't root against him (unless he goes elsewhere in the Big 10 or KY). I certainly don't blame him for getting out of this mess.

"Huh?"...just about sums up my thinking on the whole IU B-ball sitchiation right now.

Your first paragraph was great . The 2nd, not up to your normal standards.

JC shooting % was better than Gordon from 2pt or 3 pt areas. More rebounds, more assists and fewer turnovers per mintue played than Gordon. Which one is sloppy and lethargic ? Based on performance that woud be Gordon.

Yeah, but Gordon also had no leash on him, no one saying "Look, son, that 30 footer with someone in your face, might not be the shot we need right now."

And the entire team was sloppy and lethargic, not just Crawford or Gordon. That's a coaching failure more than a failure in the player. And I think we'll all agree that the coaching situation was suboptimal this year.

"lethargic" was referring to JC's hustle on defense. I seem to recall many transition buckets (particularly 3's) when JC either failed to get back, or got back, but didn't man-up. I'm not reviewing tapes or anything, just my general impression...one that I believe was held by most posters on this site throughout the season.

Man our hoosier's remind me of that film necesary roughness basketball version. is anybody here old enough to remember this movie? Anywho, I guess this is going to be an interesting season. These kids are laying the foundation for the future and I have a feeling that we will all remember each of them for giving IU a new begining.

haha necessary roughness.....great movie and perfect way to put it. thats exactly what this is. Call me crazy but I'm extremely excited about this year. We're back to hard working STUDENT athletes playing for IU. These kids have the chance to be state heroes by just showing up and playing as hard as they can. Can't wait to see what we can do.

Sure JC had plenty of potential but obviously he doesn't care that Tom Crean could have maximized it........and people who are saying Crean is a bad recruiter should not be allowed to talk, look at what he has done in this limited time at IU maybe there isnt any 4 star recruits but he is gettin players that will be there for the long haul...and still has next years commits commited and and added CAPO who is going to be a stud and JH who is going to be good as well


Lets all forget about the Sampson era while we still can and embrace what is now the Crean and Crimson era

GO HOOSIERS!!!

He doesn't have any four star recruits because there weren't any left by the time he was able to get in here and get things rolling recruiting-wise, not because of any failure on his part.

Some Names Still On The Market: and considering IU from Bill Hodge:

# Forward Emmanuel Negedu: Rated No. 31 in Class 2008. Gained release from letter to Arizona following coaching changes. Lists Georgia Tech, Indiana, Memphis, Tennessee.

# Center/forward Gus Gilchrist: Transfer from Maryland. Lost appeals for length of in-league transfer redshirt time. Was once set for Virginia Tech. Considering South Florida, Kentucky, Indiana, West Virginia.

# Guard Tyree Evans: Asked for release from letter to Maryland after media attention to off-court problems. Had yet to be admitted.

# Guard Malik Story: Rated as Super Prospect. Once set for Southern California. Lists Georgetown, Wake Forest, Marquette, Oregon, Indiana.

# Forward Leonard Washington: Once set for Southern California. Lists USC, Indiana, Kentucky.

Tyree Evans has too many off court issues. Not sure where you read that Malik Story was a super prospect he's a 3 star on rivals and scout and hes 6-4. That would be a wasted scholarship. Leonard Washington has questionable character (Crean's not going after him). I would love Negedu and Gilchrist would be a nice pickup because hes 6-10.

Gilchrist might have some serious baggage being toted around behind him, too.

Of course, if it wasn't for the situation in Bloomington, Maryland's defections would be more in the spotlight.

That's just really disappointing. Expletives are tempting, but it's not just not worth it. Crawford had plenty of potential, but maybe it never would have been realized under Crean. This is now Crean's team and he can build it without worry about dissent from holdovers. I mean I'm not worried about Finklemeier and Taber giving him problems.

Let's see what he can pull off with his remaining scholarships and root for the IU team that steps on the floor next year. Now we just have to wait to see what the NCAA committee decides and we can finally move on in Hoosier Nation....

Go Hoosiers!

Guys, I am usually overly-pessimistic when I comment on here but I decided to take a new route. I may be going out on a limb here, but if these kids this year come to Indiana, work hard, and respect the program and the game..then they might be one of the most loved Indiana teams of all time. Everything this team does is going to be an accomplishment in itself. If they beat a good non-conference opponent like Wake Forest or Kentucky. If they beat any decent Big Ten team. Nobody is going to expect our team to win this year and maybe that is a good thing.

The guys we have coming in are no slouches on offense. Defensively I have no idea because you just don't see many defensive mixtapes floating around. I've seen Verdell Jones go toe-to-toe with some of the best guards in the country and put up 25+ points. Nick Williams was a hell of a scorer at LeFlore High School (albeit he had Demarcus Cousins to take some attention away from him). We all have known for awhile that Matt Roth is deadly from downtown. Devan Dumes is a great shooter, too. Tom Pritchard, although kind of undersized, can score on the block in bunches, too.

My point is, we may be okay. We have to keep in mind that we aren't building a program overnight. We're building from the ground up with decent basketball players, and hopefully even better young men. If this team can start to put the wheels of change into motion, then they may go down in the annals of IU Basketball history with the greats like 76, 81, and 87.

Whoa 76,81,and 87. Its way early to even be mentioning this team in the same sentence with those teams.

How do you think JC leaving the program will have an effect on Emanuel Negedu and his decision? I think it could go two ways, either he will accept the challenge and work extremely hard for the Hoosiers or he will shy away from the subpar team for next year. I hope he thinks long and hard about his decision now, because he could make history if he wanted to.

I think we're likely running a distant third for Negedu. I'm thinking it comes down to Tennessee and Memphis.

3-Stars Who Ended Up Doing Well:

Luke Harangody - Notre Dame, Big East Player of the Year
Tory Jackson - Notre Dame
Curtis Jerrells - Baylor
AJ Abrams - Texas
Jeremy Pargo - Gonzaga
Derrick Brown - Xavier
Shan Foster - Vanderbilt, SEC Player of the Year
Devon Hardin - Cal
Joseph Jones - Texas A&M
James Mays - Clemson
Sean Williams - Boston College
Josh Heytvelt - Gonzaga
Derrick Low - Washington State
Trent Plaisted - BYU
Chris Lofton - Tennessee
Paul Millsap - Louisiana Tech
Aaron Gray - Pitt

These are just a few that I caught when I was skimming through the Top 150s from past years.

Es no bueno....and we still have the news on Friday the 13th to look forward to.
I wonder when Crean will hold try-outs...

*clap.clap.clap* - "Never daunted, we cannot falter..."

Oh' Well.... I wonder what Fink and Taber will do now........

I was hoping this would not happen but if IU is going to start a new era then hell lets get it started.....sooooooooo my new starting lineup is....

G-Devan Dumes
G-Matt Roth or Verdell Jones
F-Nick Williams
F-Tom Pritchard
C.-Tijan Jobe

Does anyone know how Devan Dumes is at a point guard? I know he can shoot it, but what about his abilities as a floor general? Kevin if you haven't seen the video yet, check out YouTube "MidStateHoops.com Presents Verdell Jones III-Jerryd Bayless." It's amazing to see the variety of ways that VJ3 can score. I like Nick Williams and Tom Pritchard at the 3 and 4, too. What about Tijan Jobe? What does anyone know about him other than that he is huge?

To answer your question, Dumes is more of a scorer than he is a point guard. However, I would expect him to split time between handling the ball and putting points on the board. I think he has a chance to surprise a lot of people next season and he's a great kid.

Why not start Tabor? He is the best of the two(Fink), knows how to play defense, and can hustle. I personally love to watch him play. He does all kinds of dirty work, and "don't get no" credit for it. Plus, he goes to class.

Jones should be the point and Roth off the bench. Taber will start over Jobe.

Jobe is NOT starting

As far as everybody being concerned about the maturity of these "kids" being influenced by older players, being freshmen, skipping class etc etc lets put this into perspective: we've got 18 and 19 year old "kids" in uniform overseas - this is the toy factory. Any kid that can't get to class when his costs are being paid for I don't want on the team. I truly don't care how many games we win next year - the year could be lost by the NCAA before it ever starts. I'm just looking forward to not opening the paper or the net and finding "NCAA" in headlines about a story about IU. Coach C will have IU working hard next year and building for the future - it will be a breath of fresh air just enjoying watching bball and not worrying about what disaster will happen everyday. Good luck and happy trails to Crawford and all the other ex IU players from this team.

um, one could argue that some of those 18 or 19 year olds are only overseas because they are young and impressionable and got duped into service by either that "army of one" videogame, john cena strutting around in dogtags and camo pants, or their favorite metal bands being played on recruitment commercials. but really, are we going to bring soldiers into a discussion about iu basketball players? seems sort of cheapening.

i definitely agree about the the culture needing to change and as a result i'm not all that upset, but i think its unfair to single out anyone not named Kelvin Sampson. i really don't want to comment on the integrity, attitude, or worthiness of any of these kids, and i don't think it's fair for anyone else to. let's face it--everyone who got recruited by kelvin sampson was mislead and conned in some way or the other, and i don't blame any of those kids for souring on school/basketball/life at IU. it's not only the IU program that needs a fresh start, but kids like crawford and holman too.

Assuming you went to college (I don't mean that as a shot, just that not everyone takes that route) did you never skip a class? I remember struggling with grades my first year and then when I started skipping classes and doing more studying on my own my grades actually went up.

Again, I'm not trying to give the players a free pass, but I've seen this first hand as a college basketball player. Freshmen come in all excited about college and being a big man on campus. The first thing they do is begin hanging out with the upper classmen and going to parties and all of that stuff. All of a sudden everyone loves them and is asking them to go out every night.

If a team doesn't have a strong head coach and leadership on the team that explains to them how to not get get caught up in it all, then young players can easily take the wrong path. Doesn't mean they're bad people, and if they had proper leadership they may have even been great players that normally would have followed the rules and done things the right way.

Very disappointed in this move. I really felt that Crawford had a bright future at IU. Good Luck to Crawford were ever he goes, but he would have been WORSHIPPED had he stayed and been part of the return of the HOOSIERS. We will be the "underdogs" all season and that will make what ever victories that come our way, that much sweeter.

GO HOOSIERS!!!!!!

I do respect the way JC left the program with some respect, unlike some of the others.

I feel Crawford has missed a chance at legendary status at IU and Crean has missed a chance at establishing a reputation for "developing" troubled players as men. Sad all way around I am not blaming TC in any way but we will always have troubled souls on the team so we must have ways to rehabilitate them rather than convert them into quitters.

BTW Roth cannot possibly start. Jones has more facets to his game and every bit as good a scorer but from almost anywhere. Roth not so much

Dumes, Jones, Pritchard, Taber, Williams - 1 st half of season

I agree with you JerryCT. I'm not mad that a lot of the players left, or were dismissed, but I was looking forward to seeing how good some of the guys, especially Bassett and Crawford, would have been under a coach that instituted more control of the program.

I think some of those guys could have flourished under a real coach that actually cared about them instead of just wins. I really think Crean could have rehabilitated some of these guys, but I also understand his thought process of wanting to just start fresh on a clean slate and rebuild. Also, his hands might have been tied on some of these guys with their academics.

Question here that I hope someone can answer - In granting Crawford's release can we put limits on where he plays? Like no Big Ten teams or UDM for example or can he go anywhere he wants?

It's possible, but if Crawford fights it, they're likely to let him go where he wants. A while back Marvin Stone wanted to transfer to Louisville from Kentucky. At first UK said he couldn't go to Louisville, but after it got into the media, UK caved and let him go. I would imagine the same thing would happen in this instance if IU tried to block him from going somewhere. The athletic department already has enough negative press on its plate.

It would be pointless to do that to him and not the others, given at least the kid tried to work things through as far as we know. Also, if we wants to dissappear from basketball civilization.......enjoy UDM and we will see you maaybeee during bracket buster week.

Also......where is Bassett, McGee, and DT going to land, UDM doesn't possibly have that many scholly's

Predictions......

Bassett-UAB
McGee-UIC or Chicago St.
Deandre-Div. III school

I've heard Bassett to Cincinnati or West Virginia.

HA! I can't be the only one that sees humor here...

Two programs known for their outstanding citizens -- right?

Well, both of those programs have the stink of, as a certain former coach put it, 400 hundred pounds of butter sliding up and down the sidelines.

Darn, I am really going to see red if he ends up at UDM.

Not that he couldn't go to another Big 10 school, but I believe if he does, he has to pay his own way.

I don't see why its a shock he would leave. He probably would like the chance to win a championship and that isn't happening at IU for the next couple of years. Not to mention maybe he doesn't fit with the way Crean plays. Think about it, Crean has been able to recruit a number of guards to add to this team, and I'd assume they are players that fit his system. He may not be a fit for this team. All you people that trash these players for leaving or whatever are pathetic, your like the guy or girl that got dumped and now bashes their ex....grow up

well put.

Looking at the potential bright side, DRAKE last year had a great season with little more than high character kids that did not give up on anything on either end of the floor , in practice and in games.

I cannot wait for the kids to start working out together to find out:

1. who will be their leader ------> Dumes ? Taber ? Jones ?
2. who will get the points ------> Dumes, williams , Jones, Pritchard
3. who will lead our defense ------> Jobe , Jones , Dumes ?
4. what will the team be good at ------> ball pressure ?
5. What will we be bad at ------> rebounding ?
6. How does TC handle losing -------> with optimism ?

I think this gives the program the completely fresh start that is needed. Regardless of how next year turns out, we are bringing in the right kind of players and we have the right coach to mold this into a team we can all be proud of....I am not bothered by this at all, next year was going to be a huge challenge with or without Crawford.

Listen to relief the tension here, why don't we have an avatar/picture contest. I think mine kicks butt. I mean when you can combine elvis with Mr. Met you could never go wrong.

My avatar my granddaughter and myself at Midnight Madness (Hoosier Hysteria) last fall. Kicks butt with me!

Mine is of my dog! (or at least one of them)

this from our friends at the Hoosier Report:
Returning scholarship players: former invited walk-on Kyle Taber (Sr.).

Incoming scholarship players who will be eligible in 2008-09: Tom Pritchard (F/C from Ohio, freshman); Matt Roth (G from Illinois, freshman); Devan Dumes (guard from Decatur Central/Eastern Michigan/Vincennes, junior); Nick Williams (guard from Alabama, former Marquette recruit); Verdell Jones (Illinois); Tijan Jobe (center from Olney Central JC, junior).

Returning walk-ons: Brett Finkelmeier (sophomore guard).

Incoming walk-ons: Daniel Moore (guard from Carmel); Kory Barnett (guard from Rochester); Broderick Lewis (guard from Lafayette Jefferson)

wow. next year is going to be interesting, to say the least.....