Five takeaways from Indiana’s loss at Seton Hall

  • 11/15/2017 9:38 pm in

Indiana kept it close for a half on Wednesday night in Newark, but the Hoosiers were beaten soundly by Seton Hall in the Gavitt Tipoff Games at the Prudential Center. The 84-68 loss dropped the Hoosiers to 1-2 this season.

Here’s a look at five takeaways from the loss to the Pirates:

· Indiana shows progress: A 16-point loss is nothing to celebrate nor is it anything to be satisfied with inside the IU locker room. But through three games, it’s becoming clear that Indiana is a team with plenty of room to grow. Wednesday night, at times, was a step in the right direction.

In its first road game and with two freshmen in the starting lineup, Indiana battled back from early adversity to take a lead late in the first half. The Hoosiers trailed by just one at halftime.

There was a grit and energy to the performance that wasn’t visible in the Indiana State game. Archie Miller told Don Fischer on the postgame show that he was proud of how hard his team played in the first half. Miller has stayed consistent in his message that this team will continue to improve over the course of the season. The first half fight Indiana showed was definite improvement from the performance the Hoosiers had just five days ago.

· Turnovers not proving easy to shake: In two exhibition games, Indiana showed significant improvement from last season’s turnover woes. Through three games, it’s clear there’s still a long way to go.

Indiana turned it over on 26 percent of its possessions on Wednesday night. For the season, the Hoosiers are turning it over on 22.7 percent of their possessions.

Seven of IU’s 18 turnovers in the Seton Hall loss came from Josh Newkirk and Robert Johnson, the team’s two senior guards. Juwan Morgan, a junior, had three. Given its small margin for error offensively, Indiana isn’t going to beat good competition throwing the ball away on more than a quarter of its possessions.

“Two or three, or even four of those in the first seven minutes in the second half were in transition when we had numbers or got a rebound or a stop and threw it in the seats,” Miller told Fischer on the postgame show. “Just some carelessness, to be honest with you.”

· Freshmen come up with strong performances, again: After Devonte Green and Juwan Morgan missed practices leading up to Wednesday’s game, Justin Smith and Al Durham Jr. were inserted in the starting lineup.

In his postgame comments to Don Fischer, Miller said the staff decided that the guys who got the reps in practice would be rewarded with the start.

And although Green and Morgan had positive moments off the bench, Smith and Durham Jr. are showing they are clearcut rotation guys at this point. Durham Jr. had 10 points and no turnovers in 29 minutes. And Smith, who had a team-high four turnovers, had 10 points and four rebounds in 31 minutes. Playing heavy minutes in a tough road environment will be valuable down the line for both IU freshmen.

· Delgado dominates matchup with De’Ron Davis: A key matchup entering Wednesday’s contest was Seton Hall senior Angel Delgado against Indiana sophomore De’Ron Davis.

Delgado, an All-American candidate, won the battle easily. The Dominican Republic native finished with a double-double (19 points, 11 rebounds) and IU had no answer for his aggressiveness at the rim.

Davis, meanwhile, fouled out after logging just 15 minutes and scored just four points with one rebound. On a team with thin frontcourt depth, Indiana can’t afford to have Davis in foul trouble or with that little production.

· Green’s strong first half shooting performance: One of the primary reasons Indiana was in the game at intermission was the strong shooting of Green.

Although he finished just 4-of-9 overall from behind the 3-point line, Green was 4-of-5 from deep in the first half and scored 12 points in 14 first half minutes.

With Johnson and Newkirk now a combined 7-of-25 on 3s this season, there’s a clear need for better perimeter shooting. On Wednesday night, Green provided just that.

(Photo credit: Vincent Carchietta-USA TODAY Sports)

Filed to:

  • Outoftheloop

    No.

  • Outoftheloop

    If Rob would always take 2-3 steps toward the rim after every 3 point shot, he would get a rebound for a second shot or pass about 30% of the time. Do it!

  • Outoftheloop

    IU needs Rob in the game now, Josh not so much.

  • Outoftheloop

    Rob is playing OK, Josh is not!

  • Outoftheloop

    I really dislike talking about Robert and Josh as if they are twins. They are totally different players. Robert is playing OK, but not great. Josh is not playing well and controls the ball when he is in, disrupting the offense.

  • Outoftheloop

    Robert had 12 points, second only to Devonte. That is OK, but not great. Archie said that he will sub out DeRon when he is tired to keep him from fouling.

  • Outoftheloop

    Robert played hard but was overmatched on guarding the bigger, stronger Rodriguez in the paint.

  • Outoftheloop

    Apples to oranges: two guards vs a small forward and a guard. Take Josh out, play Rob, Al and Devonte with Juwan or DeRon and Justin, until Collin is able.

  • Outoftheloop

    Agree.

  • Outoftheloop

    Agree,

  • Guyton25

  • Paul Talbott

    I’d say there is a good chance of that. I’d prepare myself anyway if I were you. 🙂

  • Outoftheloop

    Not Josh right now.

  • Outoftheloop

    He did not guard Seton Hall’s guards. He was mismatched with a very mobile Big, Rodriguez. No fault of the Coach, we just did not have the personnel to cover their good players.

  • Outoftheloop

    Good points. But Al had 0 TO’s with 1 Assist and Rob had 3 Assists and 3 TO’s. That makes your 5 boards plus 3 Assists a wash. But Al has 3 games total, Rob has 3 full seasons plus 3 games. Advantage to the freshman!

  • Outoftheloop

    Rob had 12 points, 5 boards, 3 assists, 3 TO’s. Al had 10 points, 0 rebounds, 1 assist with 0 TO’s, in fewer minutes. But much is expected of your top returning scorer and 4th year starting guard!

  • Outoftheloop

    Absurd prediction. You don’t and can’t know anything about what will happen 3 years from now!

  • Ivan Renko

    ?? I think the majority of fans on here are optimistic that Archie’s program will be ready for that next level in about 3 seasons. You don’t think so?

  • bball at nick’s

    I watched the game again on my laptop, and I agree.

  • runelord

    Borowski and Steratore are horrible referees. I’d almost rather have Ted Valentine for all of our games.

  • Ole Man

    A -to the freakin’- men!

  • Ole Man

    He did.
    RJ had the tougher assignment, however.

  • Ole Man

    Coach didn’t see that or he would have yanked Rob.

  • John D Murphy

    Also much more relevant in the nba over 82 games.

  • John D Murphy

    It is relevant for a large swath of games but decreases as the sample size decreases both in terms of games and minutes.

  • John D Murphy

    I don’t like 3 guard line/ups in general. I think it is fine to go to that for about 15 minutes a game but not as the primary or default

  • HoosierOne

    This is true for any statistic.

  • Arch Puddington

    Depends on the guards and the system, though. CTC’s dribble drive offense worked fine with three guards, particularly when they were Yogi, Jordy, and Victor. And as I noted in one post or another, Victor could defend the wing very effectively. On the other hand, the guards we have now are somewhat limited offensively, especially as outside shooters, and are not a great lineup for a pack line defense. My guess is that Archie wouldn’t even play 3 guards for 15 minutes a game if he didn’t have to. And I’m CERTAIN that he will be happy next year when Hunter, Forrester, Anderson, and Thompson are all available and three -guard lineups are an option, not a requirement.

  • John D Murphy

    Maybe someday we’ll have access to advanced metrics for college games like the nba. I like +- but one game isn’t big enough to judge. The first I always look at is minutes. It tells me the coach that they doing what the coach wants better than guys who aren’t getting the minutes. As long as I trust the coach, and I do. Maybe it is even in practice and hasn’t shown in the game.

  • Genius

    that’s nuts and unfair

  • Genius

    Archie is doing a good job so far. I really saw defensive improvement in the first half of the Seton Hall game. They were really contesting things and making it tough for the Pirates, who are a really good team and will likely climb into the top 15 by years end. The 2nd half was atrocious, they just came unglued from a ball protection stand-point, very careless. There is a certain amount of laziness on the part of the guards, especially Green at times. I’m surprised Archie didn’t lay into him (perhaps he did), but he remained in the game after a couple faux-pas and he should have been benched. All in all, improvement is what they need and now it’s on to South Florida in Bloomington and getting a convincing win at home against the Bulls. At least we won’t have to worry about getting fleeced by the refs in B-town. Go Hoosiers!

  • John D Murphy

    Not so. Turnovers, fouls, rebounds are all as relevant in measuring what they supposed to measure for one game as for a season. I can easily player x had 15 rebounds and I know he was a force on the boards. Whereas player Y had the highest +- doesn’t really mean he was the best player on the floor because it is supposed to measure

  • HoosierOne

    Disagree. To each his own.

  • kaponya44

    I agree with you .. @HoosierOne : I saw the reply to my comment below. I’ve played and coached. As a player I defied the +/- being relevant in almost every game I set foot in over 25 years in any setting whether organized, rec, street ball, or even in a video game. It is totally unreliable in any scenario in which the outcome is in flux. I stand my initial ground, so no need to pick what player I would rather have. I wouldn’t let +/- matter, much less hinge any lineup on it. You’re using +/- as a separating factor when it isn’t relevant as such. and I fundamentally disagree with your approach/opinion since I know it doesn’t work that way in real life.

    A player having a case of the craps,or forgetting to take a vitamin, you name it, can destroy something so feeble as a basis in a split second There are more factors to blow up the argument than there are to reinforce it no matter who is on the floor with whom..As a former and perhaps once again coach in the future it’s about, if not THE LAST thing I would use to run any basketball team, nor have I ever before..This isn’t WWE or WWF or whatever they call it now.

  • HoosierOne

    Not necessarily. What if you have other big men who are doing a great job of boxing out the opposing team’s big men so you’re able to get those rebounds?