Around the Hall: A little bit of everything

  • 01/11/2011 11:02 pm in

Indiana head coach Tom Crean greets the fans after a game against North Carolina Central on Tuesday, Nov. 23, 2010, at Assembly Hall. (Photo by James Brosher)

Around the Hall is recommended reading from the Inside the Hall crew. So go ahead, get your read on.

+ Stellar write-up from John M. over at the Crimson Quarry on Tom Crean and the state of the IU basketball program.

+ Herald-Times columnist (and friend of ITH) Hugh Kellenberger writes that Derek Elston’s trip of Alex Marcotullio demanded more punishment over at The Hoosier Scoop. Hutch takes a look at the trip, too, as does The Dagger.

+ The longtime radio voice of Indiana basketball, Don Fischer, joined the Dan Dakich Show on Monday. The interview is worth a listen.

+ Minnesota forward Trevor Mbakwe will not be suspended by Tubby Smith after his arrest for violating a harassment restraining order.

+ John Gasaway of Basketball Prospectus lists his top 25 freshman in the country to date. Three Big Ten players make the list.

+ Ken Pomeroy dives into the use of plus/minus statistic for college basketball. The conclusion: It’s a poor tool.

+ Northwestern fans aren’t particularly thrilled about the contract extension Bill Carmody received on Monday.

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  • JerryCT

    This weekend we play a UM team that is younger than we are, not loaded w talent , no major post player etc ……… in fact pick your excuse for losing ………. they have it and still beat PSU at home and took KU to OT.

    I have no problem w losing games .

    I have a major problem with never being close enough at the end to even scare anybody.

    SO next game we have a matchup of former BEAST coaches with flawed teams ……… it will be very curious to see what impact coaching will have in the outcome.

  • defendtherock

    I have a question for you. Who are you giving the ball to in the last five minutes of a game? Championship teams have a great point guard or a good center, or both. We have incredibly inferior talent at both of those positions. VJ3 cant blow by anyone to get to the basket, and we have a 6’7 guy playing center right now. We have tried to get other people to make plays at the end of games (CWat putting the head down and driving into a triple team, Creek doing the same against Kentucky), but it just doesnt work with the inferior talent that this team has. If we had Guy, we would at least have someone to throw it in to and go from there. Even if Guy isnt a superstar, he can score inside and get fouled or make something happen. We dont have anything at the positions that matter right now.
    Our best option at pg right now is Rivers, but keep in mind if you want him with the ball in his hands at the end of a game, you have to be ok with him taking important shots because nobody is going to come off of a shooter to help on him. Last year that hurt because he couldnt shoot and couldnt make a free throw, this years seems different with the ladder. We should give him a second chance.

  • JerryCT

    I like the fireworks. Finally we are getting entertaining here.

    You could have responded with a comparison to Turkey Lurkey …………. if you guys get together for a beer I will play the role of Ducky Lucky ………………. as long as could meet a Foxy Loxy.

  • defendtherock

    The fact that we dont match up with people has become very evident to most people who hoped for something different this year. Plus, we keep watching the teams that beat us picking someone else off everynight and we dont feel so bad. We just need a win against michigan for sanity’s sake.
    Coach crean should take valid criticism for being to slow on the hook of certain players and things. He also should reevaluate what his teams strengths are and make adjustments to his scheme accordingly. Other than that, there is just a lot of things that are not going our way on the court for the last 13 months. We have had great success with recruiting, but I think the guy from Northern Iowa just hit a step back three from half court against us again and hobnobber just turned and threw in another junk shot at the end of the shot clock. We just cant have it all yet, I dont know why.

  • MillaRed

    I think that’s the very key to any frustration. I didn’t see us sticking to an offense that was a bad fit for the team. Now that it’s a reality, I suppose I could move on. Not sure this philosophy will sell a lot of IU tickets/ jerseys this year. But it is what it is so I can obsess about something else.

    I would say it’s a collection of all of our losses and how we lost them but I get your point.
    Keep it up Kelin I think you might have a future in this blogging gig.

  • MillaRed

    Jerry I think you and I are boiling down to a minority when it comes to this frustration so it may be time to join the majority. We ain’t changing the O!

    Can we beat Michigan? Certainly. Will we beat them? If we play the NW game, NO. If we play the Minnesota game, YES.

    What’s it gonna be?

  • MillaRed

    I like it. Well said.

  • HoosierFromCT

    How many first rounders were in the championship game last year? 1?

  • Plane1972

    I will issue the inaugural post in “Apologypalooza” suggested by IUMike. Sorry for the cheap shot I took today in reference to your man-crush on Pritchard, Jerry.

  • Plane1972

    I made that same comment about Daniel Moore yesterday, Luke. I’m all in.

  • I’m with Kyle on this one; I don’t think we look worse. We look the same as last year (who knows what a 100% Creek would mean), and since everybody in the B10 got better than last year, comparatively we look worse. I’m not saying the lack of progress isn’t disconcerting, but I don’t think we are worse than last year.

  • Those articles are all well and good, Alex, but I find myself asking, “What does Don Jellison think?”

  • Anonymous

    Yeah, as frustrated as I am now, I am starting to take the long view. I still plan to go to Atlanta in April of 2013 and Dallas in April of 2014.

    Eyes on the Prize.

    I think the Quarry article is a voice crying out in the wilderness. Great perspective.

  • defendtherock

    Dude, same question to you as I’ve asked many others….How do you expect this team to have great success in a loaded conference with NO TALENT at the two most important positions on the floor (PG and C)? We have a mediocre shooting guard playing point guard, a still too thin SF forced to guard power forwards and expected to score in the post in this beasty conference, and we have a 6’7 SF playing center. You expect us to be good? Really? Getting Cody Zeller will make us a lot better because he is somebody who can score inside and draw a foul without getting his shot blocked every single time he shoots (CWat).
    Even next year, we are going to lose some games we shouldnt because when Zeller gets in foul trouble, we will be right back at where we are now. We still will have not point guard to speak of. I disagree with Alex about what we need for next year. We need a driving/scoring point guard more than anything else inside. We can overcome a bad point or a weak center, but not both. If we have a decent option at both of those positions, we should be pretty decent next year.

  • Diesel

    I appreciate the background work, but you can’t just throw out the senior class and state that IU is underachieving based on “stars”. If the teams we compete against sit their seniors on the bench for the whole game, I’ll buy it.

  • Anonymous

    Plenty of talented teams with NBA all-stars never come close to the Final Four. How many times in the past decade has Kansas alone had a top seed and flamed out early?

  • Anonymous

    There have been some of us posting some of what John wrote on the Quarry, we just weren’t as eloquent or detailed. But you’re right, there’s been a lot of doom and gloom.

    That said, next year is going to be better but still won’t be “back”.

  • Kelin Blab

    Imagine Hulls and Yogi going at it in practice instead of trying to stop daniel moore….no offense danny.

  • Kelin Blab

    interesting…..watching Puke tonite and guess who runs an offense quite similar to the IU no screening offense….Puke. I guess the blue chippers love the dribble drive.

    Ok that is it I have complimented Painter and Puke in one day…..enough already

  • MillaRed

    I guess for me with a another year of experience in the system I thought we
    would be better. Are we worse? Maybe not. But with the extra year I thought
    we would be more competitive.

  • MillaRed

    If we are the team that played Northwestern on Saturday I’m not so sure. If we are the team that played Minnesota, I agree. Let’s hope for the latter!

  • MillaRed

    If we are the team that played Northwestern on Saturday I’m not so sure. If we are the team that played Minnesota, I agree. Let’s hope for the latter!

  • MillaRed

    Any negativity I have is a result of the terrible effort I saw against Northwestern. We can pretend all day long this or that isn’t happening but that game really knocked me down a notch.

    We have Michigan on Saturday, as always, I will be rooting for my Hoosiers. But if I see Northwestern Part II, I’m not going to be a happy camper. Not sure why it bothered me so much but I was honestly shocked we could look that bad at this juncture.

    It’s a new week, so I’m ready to move on. And by the way folks, I cannot stand Bo Ryan. All I said was he is a good X and O coach. But watching him on the sideline makes me ill. He will never recruit as well as Crean nor will he have the charisma. I have met him a few times and he just isn’t that interesting.

  • MillaRed
  • DJ5

    Singler and Plumlee (2012) are both 1st rounders, according to mock drafts. The other Plumlee is projected to go in the 2nd round, and the way Nolan Smith is playing, he could squeeze into the 2nd round. Duke may (going by memory) be the first since 1999 not to have 2 first rounders (UConn – Hamilton) , but will definitely be the first since 2003 (Syracuse – Warrick and Anthony) not to have 3 first rounders

  • Plane1972

    I’ve been on the “Defend Daniel Moore” campaign as of late. I would rather take on someone who takes possessions off than someone like Daniel Moore who never stops. I’m not accusing Jordy or Yogi of slacking off, but Daniel Moore is no cupcake to deal with on the floor. At least he makes you work as a defender. Given the state of things in recent weeks, the kid needs to see the floor more now than ever. He brings an intensity, even if he lacks the pedigree of some of his teammates. If we’re not competing to win games, we should be competing to see the floor. We all loved Erick Suhr for the same reason a few years ago.

  • Anonymous

    The main problem with the article is that the reporter is following a flawed premise: we should have a better record this year simply because it is Year 3, and that is the year we expected a return on the CTC investment.

    Now that we are in the Big Ten schedule, look up and down the opponents and pick games we “should” win. Sure, IU is improved over last year (at least I think they are), but their opponents are improved as well, and in the conference, they are more experienced as well. My contention is that an improvement for the program this season does not necessarily mean we will have a better record than we did last season. We can get all bent out of shape about it all we want, but it doesn’t change the fact that we may only win 10 games all season…and still be better off than we were one year ago.

    The reporter freely admits that we have won all of the games we were supposed to win except PSU @ home. Of course, after PSU’s win v. Illinois, that loss doesn’t appear so terrible after all.

    Of the non-conference games, only N. Iowa was a “bad” loss, imo. One could argue that we should have beaten Colorado, but they are 13-4 even if they have played a schedule pretty similar to ours.

    The thing is that young teams like IU are going to lay a few eggs throughout the season. None of us have to like it, but it happens.

  • JerryCT

    I agree completely on Moore. He rarely hurts us and he works his butt off on D. I can see him on the press or trap doing well. NW and PU have guys just as small playing lots of minutes

  • MillaRed

    Well it’s a pretty popular place for IU fans to read about the state of the
    program. Your are entitled to your opinion. I would say that many fans
    outside of the ITH community are not in agreement in terms of what is
    happening out there.

    The best medicine is a win versus Michigan. And if we lose, let’s just not
    lose ugly!

  • Anonymous

    It may be a popular place to gather info about the program, but popular is not a synonym for accurate.

    I don’t think CTC is above criticism, and I don’t think he believes that he is either. I just think that it is a flawed premise when one states that we should see an improvement in record simply because it is Year 3. For every win, there is also a team that loses, and in the Big Ten this year, who are we better than? Iowa? Michigan? I think this year’s team is better than last year’s team, but just because we are better doesn’t mean that we will finish .500. Hopefully, this team can turn it around and approach that mark in conference, but if they don’t, that doesn’t mean the program is worse off today than it was a year ago.

    But I agree, let’s go beat UM and put some of these arguments to rest….at least until the next game!

  • MillaRed

    Ya know Calbert I’m sure you are a nice guy but we live in a sports world
    that is all about W’s.

    So are you saying after we add Cody and AE next year and if we finish with 7
    wins it’s OK because the Big Ten was even better? Because we were “a better
    team than 2010?”

    In 2012 the Big Ten was even better and our 4 wins were OK etc etc.

    I kinda see your point but if we look back on this season with even 12-13
    wins I would say that it is a disappointing season. Especially after the
    cupcake schedule we set up. Why is this so hard for people to swallow?

  • Anonymous

    I am a nice guy, but even nice guys don’t like having words put in their mouths. Every time I have mentioned this, it has been in relation to Year 3 (this year).

    You and I both know that the calvary is coming, so to speak, starting next season. Whether you want to admit it or not, IU blew up the basketball program and started basically from scratch. Would you expect a basketball program to finish .500 in its third year? Would you blame the coach if the record didn’t reflect the improvement most people acknowledge? I wouldn’t.

    Our program is better today than it was one year ago. I expect that the same should be true in 12 months as well. If it isn’t, then we have something to discuss. Personally, I don’t think we can start to expect a quality record in the conference until the ’12-’13 season. If our record is 5-13 in the Big Ten that year, I’ll be on your side, but until then, I believe patience is the key.

    Unfortunately, it is a virtue in short supply on these message boards.

  • millzy32

    If the only way your system can work is with top tier talent are you really a coach or are you a recruiter and salesman of the program?

    I am probably crazy but I thought a coach made the best out of the talent he was given.

  • JerryCT


    I assume “from scratch” means that our players are still not yet developed or were not at a high talent level ………… right ?

    What about playing 4 freshmen ? Is that what from scratch means ?

    Consider that UM appears to be more competitive with :

    no seniors, 2 juniors, 2 sophs and 4 freshmen as the only players w >100 min . How talented are they ?

    To me the record is a meaningless comparison while the competitiveness tells us everything.

    This weekend we get a chance to see 2 teams that have virtually the same “excuses” for losing and 2 former BEAST coaches working their systems.

    Personally I think fans, players and coaches all have a right to expect improvement during a season and between seasons. I guess this weekend will be our best guage to see how improved we are.

  • JerryCT

    eeewwww Millzy ! Nice kick in the hang me downs. Ouch !

    FWIW : I talked to a former player for UCLA under Wooden a month or two after his death and he told me this was his greatest strength as a coach. He went on to describe all the different offensive changes and defensive changes by team. How he decided who played well with whom and when.

    I hope CTC would agree with you.

    I always offer my own feeble ideas , with no day to day understanding or insight of this team, only because 1) we are losing and 2) I do not like to be critical w/o an idea for change.

    My puzzlement is that we have not changed much but expect a different result.

  • Anonymous

    From scratch means that any player of consequence either graduated, transfered or was dismissed from the team when CTC came to Bloomington. This is the difference between IU’s roster and UM’s: while UM might be very young and inexperienced as well, everyone but the freshmen were able to watch and learn from seniors who had been in that program for four years. UM had leaders (and a pretty solid couple of seniors despite their 4-year record).

    IU hasn’t had much of that during CTC’s tenure. The scant few seniors we have had have been a) JUCO or transfers who have had as much experience being Hoosiers as sophomores, or b) untalented players who rarely played significant minutes.

    Much like any young and inexperienced team, UM has played very well…and very poorly this season. That is a trademark of any young team regardless of how talented they may be.

    This game will be a good measuring stick. Let’s hope we play well!

  • Anonymous

    Also, Beilein is in his 4th season compared to CTC in his 3rd. UM took a step back in Beilein’s 3rd season actually. They were 20-13 (9-9) in ’09, but regressed to 15-17 (7-11) last season. And they had 4-year seniors during that entire stretch. Beilein didn’t have to deal with what CTC has to build his roster to what it is today. Apples and oranges. I think Beilein is a good coach, but I wouldn’t trade CTC for him any day.

  • MillaRed

    There are no sides. We are on the same side. The IU side.

    “So are you saying” is a question. Not putting words in your mouth.

    “The program is better today.” Agreed. The team is not IMO.

    I think there are coaches out there that could have this program at .500 in
    the 3rd year of this process. Maybe even this team. IMO.

    We’re on the same side Calbert. Trust me. I hope we get better. That’s all I
    am asking.

  • Anonymous

    You took a comment I made about this year and applied it to next season, which is not at all what I was trying to suggest. Regardless, it doesn’t matter. I’d rather not get in a semantic debate over it. I believe that Crean is the right guy for the job right now, and I stand by that opinion. Of course, it is just an opinion, and you are entitled to yours. Let’s hope that a big W this weekend will stiffle this type of debate for a short while! Go IU!