Around the Hall: IU at BC, Hulls on Michel, team GPA, more

  • 05/11/2010 8:40 pm in

Around the Hall is recommended reading from the Inside the Hall crew. So go ahead, get your read on, kids.

+ Indiana will play at Boston College in the ACC-Big Ten Challenge according to our friends at The Hoosier Scoop.

+ Jordan Hulls weighs-in with his thoughts on Guy-Marc Michel, who signed a Letter of Intent last Friday.

+ Tom Crean tweeted his team’s GPA for the spring semester: A 3.16.

+ Jody Demling checks in with Jeffersonville sophomore-to-be Darryl Baker, who is healthy and ready to have a big summer.

+ Indiana is among the schools that have visited Lawrence North big man Michael Chandler, according to Kyle Neddenriep.

+ Cody Larson, the former Iowa recruit who recently chose Florida, is facing a misdemeanor drug charge.

+ Bud Mackey, who committed to IU under Kelvin Sampson, was arrested again.

+ Rush the Court reveals its post-NBA Draft deadline top 25.

+ Tournament information for this weekend’s adidas May Classic is now available.

+ Illinois picked up a commitment for its 2011 recruiting class.

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  • JerryCT

    Mit mir kann man Deutsch oder English sprechen. Es ist schade das wir nur English sprechen muss

  • walton

    Might go off track here but…… yeah – he was never really specific with any one type of lineup the whole year. I would definitely like to see more consistent lineups. The team never took an identity and there never seemed to be a certain group that gelled any better than another (until the last NW reg. game). It might be better to use fewer combination of players – a few positions would still be able to play faster. It would be nice to see them mix up the style of play during games too. (posting this topic later)

    A good reason why Crean might not have explained a lot more than we would like to hear was probably straight and utter frustrations. ha ha. Poor guy – i look up to him for what he is doing here.

  • marsh21

    I got it and understand. This whole conversation started over Kelin saying the train was leaving the station and it just hit me that we could be getting this attitude that upper tier talent was not worth going after if they delayed the decision.

    We need the type of freshman we had last year again and again to develop a strong program over time. I think we have two solid kids coming in even though they are 3 stars. In fact I'm fine with this class but we should always push for the big guns as well.

    Sorry to get a little strong with my words.

  • IUfanPurduePhD

    Ha ha, it sounds like we pretty much agreed the entire time! 🙂

    I am not among the train-has-left-the-station group … If Taylor would sign IU's offer tomorrow, I'd say NOT to offer the kid b/c I want JDavis. I figured that Taylor's got multiple offers and wouldn't say yes right away, but it would serve as both a back-up plan to JDavis and increase the incentive for him to sign. I think a JDavis-or-bust approach is dangerous, but I'm hoping Crean can walk the fine line between pursuing JDavis very hard and also having one left in the barrel in case JDavis goes elsewhere (MSU).

  • bluegrassHoosier

    Jerry, very interesting story about CTC not being sure what the teams identity was going to be. I don't mean to be an apologist for CTC, but it is understandable when looking at what he had.

    There was no way for him to truly know how each individual would react to any particular situation. Which players have mental toughness, which players still have the fight at the end of the game, which players truly have a desire to play defense, which players can bounce back from a tough performance, so on and so on.

    Just as the players were leraning him, he was learning his players. It may be easy to say, the coach should “enforce” an identity, but reality is the kids determine a great deal of the teams “identity”. The more the coaches go through the battles with each kid, the more he understands each individual's make up and how to best use that player to benefit the team.

    It was a season of experimenting and learning. Painful to watch? Yes! But it's hard to be an expert chemist when you aren't sure how certain chemicals may interact with eachother.

    More than a lack of identity, I was more concerned that CTC seemed to lose his players during stretches last season. It was difficult for the players and coaches to go through such difficult times. But it concerns me when players seem to just be going through the motions.

    I hope that improves as their confidence develops, and hopefully the record improves. But as much as CTC preaches toughness, I have to admit, I saw a lack of toughness at certain points last year. That does concern me.

  • JerryCT

    Exactly Bluegrass. I thought it indicated how hard it was for him to figure the pieces out. At first I thought that JR's speed and rebounding w Creek's open court prowess was the ID as well as the best idea. When Creek went down and before that , losses to GM and BU etc I think he had to undo his concept of the team ………… but never went radical with the change

  • marcusgresham

    NBA I'd bet is the worst because of the “potential” criteria used to draft. I swear if I were an NBA GM, I'd draft older guys who might not have the “potential” but I know what I'd be getting from them—then in 3 years after the rookie contract expires would I sign the “potential” guy. I don't see the logic in teams like the Clippers or some other turd franchise that's perennially in the lottery to draft a young guy, not have him do anything for 2 1/2 years, then lose him to free agency when he starts to “get it” and go through the whole process again.

  • marcusgresham

    That's why we depend on guys like you. I'll stick to drinking too much beer and cussing at the TV screen during the games.

  • slikyslim222

    Forgot 'biergarten' in your post. :o)

  • cooper

    i wouldn't call that the greatest Hulls endorsement. A good presence isn't exactly an outstanding review. What is he going to say, the guy sucks and we shouldn't have signed him?

    The guy averaged 7pts in JUCO, to expect much of him is foolish

  • Outoftheloop

    Nice touch. Svie bier bitte! I don't speak German, but two frosty mugs always appeared!

  • Outoftheloop

    Nice touch. Svie bier bitte! I don't speak German, but two frosty mugs always appeared!

  • IUfanPurduePhD

    Yes, indeed, PT!!! Not having seen JDavis firsthand (live), I'm assuming he would start at PG for us, at least around the time conference play began.

  • marcusgresham

    Not disputing your point, but I think one major factor in Orton hiring an agent was the fact that he was probably one of the two UK freshmen with a sub 2.0 GPA and probably wouldn't have been eligible next year, anyway. If you're going to have to sit and watch you may as well get rich for doing it.

  • Outoftheloop

    But Orton is thought to be a #10-15 NBA Draft pick in 2010! That is the one place where evaluating basketball talent is serious business because you have to pay millions of $ based on it. Do they, the NBA, sometimes get it wrong? Of course, it is human judgment not science.

  • Outoftheloop

    He did not start because he was behind the #3-5 and the #9-12 NBA draft picks! It looks like Calipari and the NBA scouts agree on this ranking of talent for Cousins, Patterson and Orton.

  • Outoftheloop

    Wait! What recruiting class are you talking about? For 2010 as rated by Rivals Syracuse has #16, 5* Melo a 7' Center, #29 4* Waiters a 6'3 Guard, and #94 4*Fair a 6''7 Forward; MSU has #20 5* Payne a 6'10 Center, #38 4*Appling a 6'2 Guard, and #115 3*Byrd a 6''7 Forward. Of course these rankings are just approximations of talent, look at Jordan Crawford, not ranked, while McGee was #110, 3*. But they are useful as indicators of talent. In 2008-09 IU had Jones #126, 3* and Williams #145, 3* on the team and went 6-25. In 2009-10 IU had #56, 4* Creek (but only for 12 games), #41, 4* Watford, #103, 4* Elston, #107, 3* Hulls, #112, 3* Bawa, plus Jones on the team and went 10-21. For 2010-11 IU will have all of the above plus #141, 3* Sheehey, #144, 3* Oladipo, and U-20 French National Team Michel, with the chance of 2008 #99, 4* Offutt. Quite an upgrade in talent in 3 recruiting classes over 2 full years!

  • Outoftheloop

    The one point that I would remind you of is that NO ONE can make a binding commitment until they sign the LOI in November. So there is no rush with J Davis, except to have him join Etherington to recruit other players like Zeller, Chandler, Thomas etc. I would imagine that Coach Crean not only has a Plan B (after Plan A of Etherington, J Davis and Zeller), but C through Z as well! Remember how much has happened in 2010 recruiting after April 2010.

  • Outoftheloop

    We can speak English (but, hopefully, 1 or 2 other languages as well. I admit I can only speak English unless you count Latin and I don't), but the Generals had better at least understand Arabic and the languages of Afghanistan and Pakistan, that is where we are at War!

  • Outoftheloop

    Like Steve Nash!

  • Outoftheloop

    Question: are Stevie Taylor, Yogi Ferrell, and/or Nic Moore as good as Dee Davis of Bloomington South who IU did not recruit and is now going to Xavier?

  • Outoftheloop

    I hope that J Davis saw my post above that MSU has a point guard, Keith Appling, #38, 4* 6'2/ 170 out of Detroit for 2010 to go with Korie Lucious, #98, 4* (2008) after Lucas graduates in 2011. IU has Hulls (2009), 6'0/170 out of Bloomington South, #107, 3*. Think “playing time” J Davis!

  • Outoftheloop

    You usually have to have a LEADER on the court, usually (but not always) a ball-handling leader, before you have a team identity. It never happened for IU last season or the season before. The coach has the plan (Duke, Butler, Syracuse, Kansas) but the players have to embrace and become the plan on the floor. The big exception is Wisconsin where the coach is the LEADER: they always have 3x 6'10 bruisers, 3x 3 point shooters, 3X 3rd and 4th year program players and, occasionally, a real gifted basketball player, AND if you commit a TO or don't play defense, or don't rebound, then be expecting to RUN laps outside in Madison WI in Dec, Jan, Feb!

  • marcusgresham

    Urdu is the main language of Pakistan

  • Outoftheloop

    I agree.

  • Outoftheloop

    Thanks. But it was my understanding that in addition to Urdu there are many languages and/or distinct dialects throughout both Pakistan and Afghanistan. I was too lazy to research the facts. Thanks again.

  • IUfanPurduePhD

    Here's a question for you though: if nobody transfers and AE stays committed, we only have one scholarship–the oversign. Do you take JDavis or Zeller? I'm taking JDavis. I want JDavis AND Zeller, but if nobody transfers, we'll only be able to accept a a LOI from one of them.

  • Outoftheloop

    I was looking up some other information and saw that for 2008 recruits ranked by Rivals (Jones was #126 3* at IU), the only recruit for Wisconsin ranked in the top 150 was Jared Berggren, #74, 4*, 6'10/220 from Princeton, MN. Now I do not really follow WI intensely, but my impression was that he was an 8 minute/game bench, role-player last season. I am guessing that this year, as a junior, he will be one of their 3X 6'10 front line Big Guys who beat up on everyone in the Big-Ten. No one in WI is calling this guy an underachiever, a project, a raw offensive guy, a near bust player that should not even be on the roster. Please compare to what many posters on IU blogs call Bawa and now Michel. Give the Big Guys a chance to develop! Bawa has 3 more years to get better, Michel has 2.

  • Outoftheloop

    If I am the coach, then you pose a false duality: either A or B but not both. I, as coach, say I want Etherington, J Davis AND Zeller. Further, I know how to make this work. But there is NO point in making it public NOW since I do not have J Davis and/or Zeller ready to sign a LOI, that will only happen in November at the earliest, or make a public and morally binding commitment. In fact it may NEVER happen. As for right now, I take the first one ready publicly to commit, either J Davis or Zeller. As for the other one, I tell him that I have one slot left to fill, I want him, but he must tell me that he selects IU 10 days before we go public or sign the papers. Then I make it happen. I also make it clear that I have other options for this last slot, so we discuss our time parameters. So I must have 1 transfer in my pocket now and 1 more for April. It will be messy when it happens and I must have something very good for anyone transferring. I am saying that “I may have eased you out but I do care about you and will be there to help you.”

  • IUfanPurduePhD

    It's gotta be Bawa that transfers, right? I think Pritchard may be frustrated at his lack of PT this season, but if he hasn't announced his decision to transfer by now, then I doubt it's coming. I was disappointed with him last year, but he was a part of the 6-25 team–and stuck around when people transferred–so, I think Crean has to reward that. Guy is going to be doing what Crean probably thought Bawa would be doing for the 2010 season–and Guy is here until 2012–so somehow it just seems like Bawa would be the likeliest candidate to transfer. Plus, he's the one that could benefit the most from transferring, esp. to a smaller school where he could log 20+ minutes next season (trial by fire!).

    You've got confidence that Crean can and will make it work… I think he can too, but I'd feel a lot better about it if news surfaced about Bawa transferring soon. (And even though it's unrelated to the scholarship situation, hearing that Offutt is coming to IU would also be a bit of a boost.)

  • Hardwood Wizard

    Hopefully I will not get flagged. Not sure what kind of blog this is when a person speaks their mind and gets reprimanded, or why some people want to question my line of thinking and post theirs as if they know me, make it sound like I am inferior, or feel they are the czar of ITH.

    I like that we have two cornerstone freshman to build this program around in Creek and Watford. Not many freshman in the country produced at their level this past season. This team has a handful of guys like Elston, Hulls and VJIII who are hardworking players who are or will be achieving above what might have been expected from them prior to stepping on the floor at IU. The rest of the team I am not a fan of, but that is ok because several will be gone soon, they have to be inorder to recruit successfully.

    I like CTC's passion. He cares about what he is doing and that cannot be questioned. If you have ever played for a coach who gives up or quits on a team, that is devastating to the players and the program. He believes in what IU was and where he wants it to be. I like the fact that he is a recruiting focused whirlwind. My only concern with his recruiting is based on a fact…yes MillaRed…fact. 1) He puts a lot of upfront pressure on a kid to sign when there is time to massage the kid and not try to force his hand. he needs to work on his poker face so to speak. Ask some of the kids he recruits. While at Marquette the coaches and administration felt like he scared off some very viable recruits due to his forceful nature.

    As far as CTC's coaching, i think he is soild, but we have no clue how good he is in game situations, particularly close games because the team has been out of most ball gammes where an out of bounds play or offensive set wins the game. I do agree with many of your points that with a bad team, we need to exhaust all possibilities of slowing down a team. So far we haven't seen that. Hopefully with more talent we can provide CTC with more options.

    Guy is an ok recruit, he makes us better but not a long term solution. VO is ok because I think he will be a defensive presence for at least a couple years. WS and AE I like. One of those two will play a significant role in the offense for several years. I like AE better because he is better with the ball and has a better all around game.

    JDavis in 2011 is a must. We need a better PG. I like Hulls, but an all around athlete makes us better immediately. A versatile big man in 2011 is a must.

    Assembly Hall is unique and a great bball arena. It is loud. It is awesome to see the students behind the team. Imagine the passion if we were winning. Also, they way we have been stung the past few years, the old dog fans will be ready to get off their hands as this program improves.

    Sorry for the “novel” as some put it, just wanted to answer your questions.

  • Outoftheloop

    No! Bawa is exactly the person we all hoped to get for 2010. A 7' Center, Rivals #112, 3*, great person, good student, he can run, he can jump, he can catch the ball, he is long, he blocks shots, he rebounds, he can shoot free throws, he can dunk over anyone! Bawa is a KEEPER. You develop him. He gives you credibility with future Big Guy recruits. You need two 7' guys at least. But no more guesses, it only hurts us now!