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That’s A Wrap: Matt Roth

by in Commentary | April 7th, 2010

Big Ten Tournamnet: Indiana Hoosiers v Penn State Nittany LionsWelcome to “That’s A Wrap,” our attempt to um, wrap up the 2009-10 season. Sit back. Relax. Grab some popcorn. Get your read on.

Final Stats (Two games): Oh come now, is it even fair to put 2 points per game in here? I mean geez, dude only took one 3-pointer. This was a lost season for Matt Roth.

Two points in games against each Howard and USC-Upstate encompass all that Matt Roth was able to muster on the scoreboard this season before a foot injury put the kibosh on a sophomore campaign for the Illinois sharpshooter.

The injury was sort of disappointing, at least for me.

Roth was certainly an experiment in how good Tom Crean might be at identifying and employing effective rotations. (I know that’s come up here at least once or twice, hasn’t it?) At first blush, Roth isn’t much more than a shooter — an incredibly streaky but also ridiculously gifted shooter — and so the assumption was he was one who would see slackened playing time with a strong freshman class coming in.

But I was interested in Roth as a test of Crean’s developmental ability.

If he wants to be successful in the 4-to-5-year time range I think most would agree is fair, Crean is going to have to make a meal of lesser ingredients in a number of different ways, not the least of which is coaxing out of players with somewhat limited skillsets every ounce of potential they posses. Roth doesn’t have to end up filet mignon, but an apricot chicken would do nicely.

How Crean manages and coaches up players like Roth will go a long way to determining how far he can take his program. Maurice Creek is great, but Rutgers had a guy who could score. Ask Fred Hill how that turned out. It’s the complimentary pieces that finish the puzzle.

Roth, to be fair, could be a respectable contributor if a) he can become at least serviceable defensively, b) either becomes unstoppable from behind the arc or develops something of a mid-range game and c) sticks around. (That last point was in no way a subtle hint at a possible transfer, only an acknowledgment that transfers occur on every team everywhere, every year.)

I’m not saying Roth is the second coming of Steve Alford. Hardly. He’s not even the second coming of Jon Diebler. But in Crean’s drive-and-kick offensive sets, Roth has a talent that is immensely valuable, and in few ways teachable.

The bottom line: A lot of this is pure speculation, obviously. What matters is how hard Roth has worked during his recovery, and how driven he is to carve out a place for himself on this roster. Yes, there are other shooters, but I refuse to believe that Indiana would be better off without a player who can be so prolific as Matt Roth. Whether consistency of such success can be achieved, and then coupled with improvement in what Roth offers in other areas of the game, will essentially determine how involved he is in this program next year and beyond.

  • MillaRed

    I think saying what is on our minds regarding recruiting and coaching is actually what Inside the Hall is for.

    Otherwise it would be really boring. I mean, it's a blog………

  • walton

    Bottom line in my opinion: IU needs to bring in some more players sooner than later. Creek, Watford, Elston, VJIII, Hulls, Capo, Sheehy-Oli(for now) – all good, check – roster spots. Sorry if I am missing someone, but its just my opinion without speculating how well someone might improve. Those guys make up a solid enough group for now, but that's only 8 players. Again I think Creen needs to add to this list sooner than later…….and once he does there will be fewer differences in opinions.

  • Outoftheloop

    I played at HPER a few 100 times myself. I actually played with Buckner and May, against Wilkerson. Of course you could pick a group from HPER and beat Crean's first IU squad, on the right days!

  • Taskmaster75

    “Will coach Mack continue to build and elevate Xavier's program?”

    So Sean Miller didn't do anything to help him build that program? He's had 1 year after Miller left. As far as I am concerned, he hasn't proved much, and his teams aren't that impressive (Although I did pick them to reach the Sweet 16). They lack discipline, in that Crawford and Holloway just chock up shots whenever they want without recourse. It's a double edged sword. Sometimes, it keeps them in games, like the KSU game, but also in the KSU games, Crawford chucked up the worst shots I have ever seen (How some of them went in, I will never know). I'm not declaring him a bad coach yet, but I don't think that it's really him that's behind the success at Xavier, but more of Sean Miller building that program to be a great team.

    “When we are getting our butts kicked by the top 6 teams in the Big 10 in terms of recruiting, and all the other non conference local colleges like Cincinnati, Louisville, Kentucky, Tennessee, Pittsburg, Xavier, etc., and we are now the 4th best team in the state of Indiana, I tend to question what is going on.”

    That's exactly his point. What do you think is going on? Tom Crean, in a metaphorical sense, inherited an earthquake ravaged building that was leveled to the ground. At this point, he has brought in most of the resources he needs, but he's just barely cleared away the rubble. He needs time to actually have a chance at getting his building completed. (Huzzah for metaphors)

    “Did Matt Painter take over a Purdue team that was on top? Was OSU one of the best when Matta got there? No and No!”

    You are correct, but they at least had programs that could be sold to recruits. For example, Greg Oden and Mike Conley, Etwaun Moore, Jajuan Johnson, etc. What can we sell? Crean's final 4 run a while back? The banners that some of these kids weren't alive for? Give me a break, it's an impossible task to expect instant results.

    “All i know is that we are consistently recruiting the same type of player to fill the 2 guard and 3 small forward position.”

    That's not accurate. All of these guys are people that Crean believes will fit into his system. We are in the mix for several high profile guys that 2 years ago seemed like a pipedream to even consider Indiana. Would you like big men that won't do anything in our system? Crean could do that, but he's not that stupid. At least, if he is, he hasn't really shown it to me yet.

    “We sit our big guys and fail to recruit them…..great plan.”

    Remember that Moses Abraham guy? Nothing? Maybe Chris Braswell? He sounds just a bit familiar….

    Stop with the generalizations. Crean hasn't recruited a marquee big man yet. That is true, but to say he can't or refuses to recruit them is complete bullcrap.

  • Kelin Blab

    +If Matt Roth is a dime a dozen how come Purdue, Michigan State, Duke all DO NOT have these dime a dozen shooters like Matt Roth.

    +VJ3 did not develop this year, yet he was honorable mention all big ten? That was based on coaches who voted.VJ3 was recruited by Illinois, I think they wanted him pretty bad.

    +VO can dunk like a monster and a solid on ball defender something IU lacks and needs.

    Will Sheehey is too soft for the big ten and yet Austin Etherington is not…Can you explain that please and based on what?….My stats show they are the EXACT same height, Will is 190 pounds AE is 185 and both kids are very good shooters and can bounce off the floor well. No knock on AE but Sheehey played against far far more D1 talent this year than AE. I eagerly await your explanation.

    What is considered stud classes? Again you cannot bring in Frosh every year that are going to be immediate impact players…this years champ Duke didn't have em', Butler didn't have em', Purdue didn't have em'. NOT ONE frosh on any of the above teams made a huge or considerable impact on they're tourny success. You must see these kids in their soph years and later….

  • http://www.cannotfalter.com LTTelamon

    Agreed, and well said. 4-5 years is reasonable – 2 years, clearly not, to evaluate a rebuilding job of this magnitude.

  • JerryCT

    You make alot of very excellent points with logical analysis. If I had Rivers and Creek ( and even Hulls by the end of year ) I think I too would think transition offense would be our bread & butter with dribble drive as the secondary.

    Unfortunately there emerged to be many many problems with this scheme as we saw with our own eyes. This offensive scheme now days is not working for IU any better than it is for other teams who over weight this scheme in college basketball.

    I point to UT, UCONN, UL , Nova and many others who were outplayed consistently by teams who can cut and screen in the 1/2 court.

    For many of us the question is more about us being so single dimensional and committed to a scheme we donot see working at IU or virtually anywhere else ………… except when the team plays consistent killer defense.

    So for me i am not blaming players , rec

  • http://www.cannotfalter.com LTTelamon

    This type of thinking (in this comment thread) is what we need more of. A rebuilding of this program is not an overnight fix. It's going to take time.

  • http://www.cannotfalter.com LTTelamon

    I dunno, Jerry… maybe statistically that's true, but Gordon and Wilmont are very talented shooters in their own rights, and I'd prefer either of them over Roth, Creek, or Hulls. Not by much, though.

  • http://www.cannotfalter.com LTTelamon

    Whoever hires Brad Stevens will have a good coach on their hands, but not a better one than the one Indiana currently has. I'm sorry that you have difficulty grasping that it takes time to rebuild a program from nothing. Stevens certainly did not do so, and I don't see why you'd be expecting different results from him than what Crean has done. Lickliter won 29 games the year before Stevens took over, and that's the team he left to Brad Stevens. Tom Crean got literally nothing from Kelvin Sampson but sanctions and Kyle Taber.

  • http://www.cannotfalter.com LTTelamon

    I like Brad Stevens a lot, but aren't you overhyping the guy a little bit? He did come into the year with the 10th ranked team in the nation… Final Four run shouldn't have been that much of a surprise to people.

  • Taskmaster75

    Ahhhh yes, completely slipped my mind.

  • Brandon Hall

    Knight and Teague are in two different classes. Knight is a likely one and done so I don’t see why he has anything to do with Teague’s decision.

  • dabig

    I'm up in the air on CTC. My perception is clouded, though–I was at IU when Knight started. Knight's situation wasn't all that great when he came (Bootsie White, for God's sakes), but at the end of his second season, he was in the Final Four–coulda won it all, but he ran into Walton and UCLA.

    As I've said before on this site, I'm not seeing this as “Crean's Team.” He hasn't imposed his standard on these guys, that I can see, and I think that's what's needed. Again–my perception is clouded.

  • BaseballBuc

    Kelin, I agree with you. I have pretty much given up on Teague but these little things come up and spark my interest. I guess my thinking is that with all the bad things that has happened to IU recently, that something should go our way sooner or later and why shouldn't Teague be what we are looking for. I would put our chances somewhere near 10/90 in landing him, but in the words of Jim Carrey, “so your saying theres a chance?!”

    Task75: He most certainly could go to UK. Brandon Knight is a senior and if he goes to UK he will be a 1 and done. Teague is a junior so he could come right in and start as a frosh after Knight leaves.

  • marcusgresham

    I agree with you on Roth's game. He IS that Hahn kid from Butler at this point—shoot from 20-24 feet, and not much else. I still think Pritchard is basically not in the spot to do what he does well. He's being counted on to be a semi-major contributor as a scorer/rebounder/defender, and he's more of the Brian Sloan-type of screener/general pain in the ass for the opposition. I think Capobianco may be able to develop into somewhat of an enforcer by the time he graduates.

  • IUbriz

    Also, Matta took over for 1 year at Butler after they went 23-8, took over at Xavier after Skip Prosser amassed 5 straight 20 win seasons.

  • unclekerfuffle

    This brings up an issue that I did a little research on. The discussion during the last few months over the “youth excuse” for IU seems to have some sort of validity based on the rosters of successful teams (Final Four) over the last three seasons. Based on what I was able to look up on the different schools' websites, only one team out of the 12 did not have a majority of upperclassmen; that team was MSU last year.

    If my research is correct then probably there is at least some degree of correlation between the collective D1 experience of a squad and its success. I suspect if the rosters of the Elite Eight for the last three years were analyzed the results would be similar.

    After my unscientific research I just wonder if the “youth excuse” is actually a “youth reason.”

    Just some food for thought.

  • Dirk

    Butler plays the way IU did in their heyday. I see them play and I think that's how I want IU to do it on both ends of the court. I haven't seen it under Crean. I'm not a believer in Crean's system because it seems to rely on having superior talent. Having said that, I recognize the players haven't executed for him–he's not telling them to turn it over or not help on defense–so I still think the jury is out.

  • Disco_Briscoe

    I know he doesn't fit but Gaudio would be a nice pick up for the assistant spot…getting some recruits.

  • Dirk

    Interesting, but I think Crean raided the HPER to fill his first roster, so there may not have been anyone left to fill a HPER roster.

  • Kelin Blab

    Outoftheloop….please keep posting…the Jim Thomas Oladipo comparison is the best I have heard and I, just as my dad were huge JT fans. Long arms, defensive focused, could hit an open 15 footer, and don't get cute with the ball or it is going the other way. I love that comparison.

  • iulineman

    you are not going to have every player develop into a superb player if you base a coaches progress like that then why keep any coach think Mandeville, Lindeman, Larry Richardson their coach was pretty good if my memory serves me right and they really didnt pan out

  • BaseballBuc

    Okay, this is weird and sounds ridiculus but it's true. I'm friends with Marquis Teague on facebook and someone commented on his page and said that he should go to IU. The same person commented later saying “It's ok, no one wants to go there anyway.” Teague's response was “I never said I wasn't gonna go there, I just don't know yet.”

    Now I don't know if we can take anything from this besides the fact that it sounds like he's still mulling it over.

  • iubacktoglory

    I had noticed the same thing on his profile, if we could land him it totally changes the program that much faster! One big time 5 star recruit could be what IU needs to be put back on the map for recruiting anyways!

  • Kelin Blab

    Sounded weird and ridiculus until I read it…100% true……as a very optimistic person…….I can't produce any here BaseballBuc…..it is Ky Ky Ky. I can't even piece together enough rumors, stories, or distant relatives to have me believe IU has a chance in hell. IU has a better chance at Coach K going to the Nets, KI decommitting and coming to IU……..sorry bro.

  • marcusgresham

    Maybe it's the angle of the shot, and maybe it's just me, but in that picture (and others I've seen for that matter,) Roth looks like he has HUGE feet for his height. If that's the case no wonder he isn't very quick.

  • Taskmaster75

    I don't think he will go to UK until he hears about other recruits. Brandon Knight is very likely to go there now that Wall is out of the fold, and with Knight's ability, he would take away minutes from Teague.

    But then again, this is an 18 year old kid, who knows.

  • marsh21

    We're just a bunch of basketball geeks and have nothing else to do but talk about our hopes for this program. Crean will be fine but I've always said it's a 5 year process before we get harsh on him. It all depends upon player development for now.

  • marcusgresham

    Mack is from Lexington, KY. If here were that highly sought after he never would have left his hometown. Heyward was not the level of recruit that Ebanks was, I'm sure, and if he was it was late in the game because he was more of a tennis player than basketball player as far as most people knew. He grew almost a foot in high school.
    You're expecting Crean to get the highest level of recruit to Bloomington, but at this point what does he have in his arsenal to do so other than his own charisma? Until he has a year or two to prove that Indiana is on the upswing what's his pitch?
    You can't win without talent, but the level of talent, and therefore the level of victories, are going to be incremental. No one's going to just sit on the toilet and crap out a 23-win season.

  • marsh21

    Teague must have a very good idea where he's going because he's going to announce it within a week. Players keep their comments as unbiased as possible so I wouldn't hang on any of his words gents. I don't see anything to read into here.

  • BaseballBuc

    Kelin, I agree with you. I have pretty much given up on Teague but these little things come up and spark my interest. I guess my thinking is that with all the bad things that has happened to IU recently, that something should go our way sooner or later and why shouldn't Teague be what we are looking for. I would put our chances somewhere near 10/90 in landing him, but in the words of Jim Carrey, “so your saying theres a chance?!”

    Task75: He most certainly could go to UK. Brandon Knight is a senior and if he goes to UK he will be a 1 and done. Teague is a junior so he could come right in and start as a frosh after Knight leaves.

  • marcusgresham

    I agree with you on Roth's game. He IS that Hahn kid from Butler at this point—shoot from 20-24 feet, and not much else. I still think Pritchard is basically not in the spot to do what he does well. He's being counted on to be a semi-major contributor as a scorer/rebounder/defender, and he's more of the Brian Sloan-type of screener/general pain in the ass for the opposition. I think Capobianco may be able to develop into somewhat of an enforcer by the time he graduates.

  • marcusgresham

    Yup! Kentucky was the greatest team ever assembled this year (or at least that's what I seemed to hear from all their fans I know,) and the only nets I seem to recall them having cause to cut down were in the less-than-stellar SEC.

  • marcusgresham

    …but if you hang 9 threes on Ohio State I'll forgive you somewhat if you don't always guard them well

  • marcusgresham

    As for the kickout aspect, I hadn't thought about it, but there's a comparison to a former Crean player here–Steve Novak. Now, I realize Roth is 6'3″ and Novak was 6'10″, but he avoided the paint like it was still lead-based and he did all right for himself.

  • marcusgresham

    and UK has a few open scholarships after today's announcements

  • Taskmaster75

    He sure could, I agree, but I am sure he is considering that if Knight commits there and doesn't go pro his first year, then he won't have the spotlight or the PT he wants. At Indiana, he would lead the show, and would probably start on a competitive team in the Big Ten. You are correct though, most likely, he doesn't come here. But seriously, how much more bad karma can come our way before it balances out?

  • kesims

    Kelin I also happened to notice right under that article was one about Teague making a decision soon between Cincinatti Louisville and Kentucky. Is Indiana out??

  • http://www.prinsportsblog.com BGleas

    I love how people totally discount the Final Four that Crean went to and all the 20-win season he had at a program like Marquette, including putting guys like Steve Novak, Travis Deiner and Wesley Matthews in the NBA. But one season at IU where he had exactly ZERO players that have been in the system longer than two years, often times had four freshmen starting and lost his best player and best shooter to injury are the end all be all of his coaching career and lead us to make statements like “CTC has yet to prove he can recruit or coach”.

    I'm not trying to be a CTC apologist, but it's like we've lost our minds.

  • JerryCT

    Time for a new WRAP. This one is gettign worn out

  • BFowler

    Wow, this comment thread has certainly been all over the place. First, on Roth, he was about the only player in year 1 ADs (After Denim shirt) that gave us a “shining” moment. We were all impressed by VJ III by the end of the year, but the 9 threes was the one memorable moment from that season. I think that with the play I saw this year, any deep threat could have helped in the close games that were lost (see: at Illinois, vs. Purdue, etc.). I have not heard of Roth's name connected with a felony real estate scheme, suspended for doing drugs, or bringing the team GPA down, so I think he is fulfilling his role on this team. Also, remember, he was a Denim shirt recruit (as well as TP). Take that as you will. Personally, I think he brings a unique talent and I remember a couple of blocks he got in year 1 ADs that, I thought, spoke to better athleticism to come.

    This thread quickly got turned to Stevens. I think Brad Stevens is a good, solid coach with a good program that got handed to him—-in the Horizon League. He is young and had a great run. He also had lightning in a bottle. That was a once-in-a-lifetime run from that team. If they do the same thing next year, I will gladly eat my words. Until then, this is a unique run in a down year for college hoops. Kansas and Kentucky gagged; was Syracuse even a #1 once their center went down? They didn't even win their own conference tournament without him. Yes, Butler plays solid defense and they have some nice pieces, but seriously, they are limited offensively. How many times did you hear, “it's been 6 minutes since Butler scored a field goal” in this tournament. It seemed like every game. I heard the same thing with IU this year, but we couldn't defend like Butler. We talk about good “bigs” all the time with IU recruits, but you tell me who the solid “bigs” are that play for Butler. Howard? He is Tom Pritchard with a better FT shot. Heyward, I can not argue with skill wise, but he is the same height and build as Elston. Don't insult my intelligence with Jukes. Even their guards are not “big”. Were Nored or Mach “towering” over anyone this year? Their small forward, Veasley, was half-a-foot shorter than Singler. I was commenting to my wife during the championship game that Butler looked like the JV team. You could argue that fact shows how good a coach Stevens is, and that would be a valid argument, but I still believe this was a one-time event.

    The next “reason” or “excuse” that is commonly touted and bemoaned is the youth excuse. Granted, Kentucky had a season we would have enjoyed, but in the end, their inexperience bit them. The only team I can think of that was dominated by freshman that was really successful (by that I mean Final Four) was Michigan's Fab Five. But even they lost to more experienced Duke and North Carolina in the final. Even hallowed Butler lost in the first round when Heyward, Mack, and Nored were freshmen.

    Yes, this team regressed in 2 ADs, but wouldn't you if you were completely beat down all season? Can you function at your best when all you get is crappy results? I do not blame Coach Crean yet, as this was only year 2 ADs, and I think that he is really trying to do things the right way. These recruits he is getting in on late are players that were not considering IU until the last minute (see: Selby, Abraham, and Christmas), yet are seriously considering the Hoosiers. That speaks to a good salesman. I am not close to an apologist, as the product on the floor drives me absolutely nuts a lot of the time, but I think it is far too early to tell.

    My soap-box will now be retired for a while.

  • marsh21

    Gee, it sounds from your comments IU should have been playing for the national championship and Butler doesn't have the talent that our IU team has? I'm a life long IU fan but please don't go down this road. Butler would beat IU by 20 points without even scoring in the second half. Howard and TP comparison, really??? TP wouldn't have even scored a point against Duke and would have fouled out within 2 minutes. In fact TP wouldn't even start on that team.

    Let's move on to more positive things.

  • FWHoosier

    That is how I remember it as well. If I remember correctly, Crawford and Holman were still with the Hoosiers and Ebanks and Hollowell were still committed. I believe they all left after Crean arrived (not that it was his fault). He was simply relating how the situation was still deteriorating even after he arrived.

  • FWHoosier

    Unfortunately, we have seen very little of Creek so far in his collegiate career, but I don't think I have ever seen a player with a quicker release.

  • Hardwood83

    I KNOW Collier built Butler, my point was what did he do once he left? Answer: failed miserably at Nebraska. Then Lickliter had a brief tenure at Iowa and now is out of a job. Point is hiring a hot prospect from Butler (Stevens) does NOT equate to guaranteed success. Yes, Matta has done very well after one season as the HC there, so I guess in this sample you call it a 33% success rate. Following the fad and hiring a rising star coach is not a sure thing, Stevens may be a superstar….at Butler. Doesn't mean it will translate to IU or anyplace else.

  • FWHoosier

    I think the end of this season rattled the entire Hoosier Nation as well as the players. We all seem to have forgotten that this team had a .500 record a full one-third of the way into the Big Ten season before the meltdown started. The tough loss of Creek followed by close losses against Illinois and Purdue, in games where this team really put thier hearts out there on the floor, those things seemed to deflate this team and destroy thier fragile confidence. The long losing streaks that followed deflated the optimism of the Hoosier Nation.

    We all need to get it together for a new year. These young men can be competitive and two more big recruits will make a difference.

  • BFowler

    I can not argue against facts. I am in no way saying that IU could have beaten Butler. My point was that there have been many people arguing for “bigs” to come to the program. What I was pointing out was that Butler's “bigs” are no “bigger” than IU's bigs. I believe if you look at Howard's tournament, he was not at all dominant, he was aggressive and tough, things TP could be if he asserted himself. If you think Howard was great in the championship game, I will not argue with your opinion, but I just did not see it. Howard had foul trouble the whole tournament, and I do not remember him getting a ton of points against players his size or bigger.

    I thought I was being pretty positive about my team, I may be jealous, but I feel pretty positive. I was trying to make the point that Stevens is not the second coming, yet. Maybe of Mark Few, or Dan Monson, or Sean Miller, but let's not anoint the kid.

    I was coming to the defense of my team and pointing out that Butler's run was once-in-a-great while type of run, similar to IU's is 2002. But seriously, outiside of Memphis in 2008, when was the last mid-major type of team to make the final game? Utah in 1998. These things do not often repeat themselves.

    I am not interested in getting into an internet post war with anyone, and I believe we would largely agree on things. I just think you missed the point of my post, so I probably did not do a very good job of explaining what I meant.

  • JerryCT

    You are right. TP would not start on either team. People that trash TP however do not analyze basketball very deeply and usually look only at scoring…… for example:

    1. Pritchard kills people with his screens, Howard sets a “nuisance” screen only
    2. Pritchard hedges better than anyone in the b10, Howard does not hold his hedge very long but maybe with his teamates he doesn't have to.
    3. Pritchard does not allow players to get their spot on the floor ( ie Zoubek ), Howard cannot stop them so bangs them to move them, players who try to back down TP go nowhere and bounce off of him
    4. Pritchard alters shots w his body , Howard does not
    5. Pritchard consistently bodies his man off the boards, Howard does not
    6. Pritchard seals on drives very well , Howard allowed BOTH Zoubek and Singler to get to Hayward's 2nd to last shot ………. not good and maybe cost them the game

    Howard, as most people have noticed becasue it is easy, can shoot w either hand, has quick enough feet and moves to get the shot, hits his FT's, and is a clever passer. Therefore he scores more points.

    Yes I am dispoointed in TP's offense this year and we need it to get alot better, but he is very valuable to our team as Howard is to Butler.

  • JerryCT

    BTW . Everything I have said about Pritchard is not an “impression” , it is backed by game film and the facts. This stuff does not show up in box score . Replaying the games , sometimes in slow motion , is the only way to develop an appreciation of all he does for us.

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