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The Minute After: Purdue

by in The Minute After | March 3rd, 2010

FINAL SCORE: 74-55 | Box score

Kicking it old school tonight.

THE GOOD

1) Derek Elston. Not sure if Elston got more run tonight because he limited his defensive mistakes tonight, or because well, he just deserves it. (Because I think he does.) But he pumped in 13 points and seven rebounds in 24 minutes before fouling out, on 5-of-10 shooting from the field. He offers a nice, controlled, smooth, inside, outside dynamic on offense, and for a team full of guys that turn the ball over time and again, Elston turned the ball over just twice tonight.

He needs to play this much every night. He’s a guy that, if he defects and transfers this offseason, it would be a shame. The freshman has a shot at developing into a solid player in the years to come.

2) Motion and creation. At times tonight, this IU squad looked like the competent version from earlier in the season against lesser foes: Jeremiah Rivers was penetrating and it opened up more opportunities on offense. When this team dribbles and holds, holds, holds the ball around the peremiter, they’re unimaginative. When Rivers and Verdell Jones drive and move the ball off the top of the key, there’s more there for IU, because defenses have to rotate and adjust.

One particular play that stands out in the first half: Rivers took the ball from the left wing, dribbled near the hole and passed it off to Bobby C. Bobby C. found Daniel Moore near the top of the key. Moore shot-faked, got his defender up in the air, and then had a nice open shot just in front of the three-point line. He missed. Bad.

Someday, this will be Maurice Creek getting such a shot.

IU also tried getting out on the break and transition at times tonight. It wasn’t always successful, but these were two dynamics this team had early on, and have the Tom Crean seal of approval all over them.

IU just simply doesn’t have the personnel or talent to execute in these schemes night in and night out yet.

3) Bawa played. And scored! Then Tijan poked him in the eye. Bad Tijan.

THE BAD

1) Dear ITH reader,

I will pay you the sum of $1 million U.S. dollars if in IU’s remaining slate of games, they go the entire 40 minutes without catching a pass, having some sort of brain aneurysm and randomly traveling for no good reason at all. Ha. Just kidding. No. I won’t do that.

It’s a mental, timid, unsure hiccup,  like going in to kiss a girl, and putting your lips to her eyes.

How many times has IU done such a move this season? By my count, it’s eleventy gillion.

But, for serious: IU had 18 turnovers tonight. And Purdue was able to score 22 points off these turnovers. Stop me if you’ve heard this one before.

2) Lots of fouls tonight. Purdue didn’t do the greatest job of converting (they were 21-of-31 from the line) but when your best two true bigs — Tom Pritchard and Bobby C. — along with Elston all have four fouls with just over 10 minutes to go in the second half, this is not a good thing.

3) Defense. Way too many open threes in the first half. Some difficulties helping and rotating.

And honestly: Yes, I know IU lost by 19 points tonight. And its the same as it ever was these last 11 games now. But let me paint you this picture. Say IU doesn’t dribble the ball off their feet and turn the ball over like the local Y team this evening. Say they close out on shooters, and instead of fouling so much, they make Purdue work for their points, and make them miss here and there.

This game is much closer. This is not IU down in the mid to high teens when it matter most; it’s IU within high single digits with a chance to strike and make things interesting. Of course, I’m not saying IU wins this game. That’s silly.

But I am saying that if this team can cut out some of the nonsense come Big Ten season next year, Creek and Roth return and the program doesn’t see wide-scale defection, the seeds are there for improvement and success.

And at this point, that’s all anyone’s asking for.

  • http://ryancorazza.com Ryan C.

    See my comment above in reply to Andrew.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1790604551 facebook-1790604551

    I really I really don't think that anyone on the team will transfer, we will be luck if rivers does personally but I don't see that happening, 2 for sure staying, Hulls and Elston! Both from Indiana and been their dream to play for IU! All this crap about Watford transfering is dumb, there is no proof! Plus it's worse than we expected this year, manly because of the lose of Creek and Roth, bit watford knew the first year would be tough and he still came here! Tom crean is a great recruiter, he got this top 10 class in with the mess from last year! So he can keep them here, espically since there is a bright future with this class!

  • Kelin Blab

    First…Thanks Ryan for getting this up quick. I like being one of the first ones to post, it has become a little therapy for me and it helps me sleep.

    The Good
    + Elston…nuff said!
    + Jordan Hulls, played a sound game within himself, did what he was asked to do, limit turnovers, make open shots, typical hulls day
    + One game closer to the season ending

    The Bad
    + At one point during this game I said to myself, Mike Davis is a better offensive coach than Crean…do I believe this ….the jury is still out. Too much standing for me, no no no off the ball screens to get people open on the block or our lone shooter hulls. Ryan..I hope you are right, with different pieces this offense will look better.

    + I can no longer watch J.Rivers, missed lay ups bad passes, more missed lay ups…..

    + The “Transfer Watford” Chants were priceless along with the sign, “I could play for IU”

    + CW has to get in the weight room as I say every week, he just keeps getting pushed around be EVERYONE

    + Not ONE charge taken or attempted all night, that pissed me off the most

    The encouraging
    + Bobby C is playing more physical
    + Elston is playing with more confidence
    +VO is the Kramer type of player we need

  • Andrew

    Ryan, your Daniel Moore/Mo Creek comment is freaky…I said the exact same thing to someone during the game. It's amazing how much better a coach Crean will become when Creek comes back and these freshmen get older. Your Elston defect comment strikes me as a little odd, however; unless you have something concrete with which to back it up, why even mention that in this particular forum, the post-game wrap? There has been so much transfer talk around here lately, I guess I really don't understand. Are people just bored b/c the team is so bad, and this is something to discuss? What if every single player transfers, and IU is unable to field a team next year???

  • valpohistory

    I cry laughing every time that I watch this video!

  • valpohistory

    I'm here to eat my words from last week. I know that we had a few costly turnovers, we could've been back in the game, and so on, but they quit tonight. It makes me sick, because I have defended them since day one, but they quit. I won't comment on what one player did, because everyone on this board already unfairly likes to jump on him, but it was the most telling sign I have ever seen that they are no longer buying into Crean's system. Sure they still run the same offense, and things of that nature, but they aren't “buying” what he's selling. He's still out there, making the substitutions he feel will give us an opportunity to compete as well as develop players, but the team isn't responding anymore, which losing can do to you when you're young. But, I will say, they quit. Please don't ask me to elaborate on the specific player, because I won't do it. Anyone watching, probably saw it happen.

  • gdb

    Yeah, is there any basis for suspicion that players will transfer? Wher

  • BaseballBuc

    First off, let me say that I HATE PURDUE! everything about them. Their fans, their players, mascot. It burns me up inside to see us losing like this, let alone to purdue. We just flat out don't have the talent. The way we win games is to out play and out hustle the other team. We all knew that Purdue playing at home on senior night, with a chip on their shoulder after a loss, then mix in that they are playing IU, a bitter rival. That equals a lethal combination and didn't bear well for IU. Of course Derek B.A. Elston played very well. He still makes me nervous when he gets goin full speed, because it seems like his feet tend to move way faster than the ball and the rest of his body. With that being said, I love his future. We still of course have zero inside game and the only way to defend johnson was to foul him. Let this season be a life lesson for all of us, to just keep doing what your doing, even when it gets tough, because thats the theme that this program will be built upon. That's the great thing about basketball as Don Fischer would say, “there's always another game.

    On a side note, it killed me to sit and watch Eli Holman put up 24 and 15 on Valpo tuesday night. That kid could of been a star if his attitude wouldn't of got in the way.

    Also, I was really upset after this game so I had to watch this to cheer me up and make me laugh.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdm4Oi1YRZY

  • http://ryancorazza.com Ryan C.

    Bottom line: kids transfer all the time. It's happened under Knight, Davis, Sampson and Crean. Remember, Nick Williams and Malik Story — both freshman — transferred after last season.

    It's just a reality of college basketball.

    And kids are more prone to transfer earlier in their college career when they still have some good years of eligibility left — unless you are Marco Killingsworth. Add in a likely 13-game losing streak to finish out the season, one in which you're getting assaulted night after night, and there's a higher probability that a defection could occur.

    Does this mean it's going to happen? No. Did I say it was going to happen? No.

    But talking all the facts and previous history into consideration — and add in the player in question probably possessing the talent to have gotten more playing time, but having one aspect of his game holding him back as far as the coach is concerned — and I think writing one sentence saying it would be a shame if a guy transfers (because I think he has promise) is completely and totally fair.

  • http://ryancorazza.com Ryan C.

    See my comment above in reply to Andrew.

  • btowncain

    LOVE IT!!!

    I still think about coach RMK, you'd like to wonder what would have been had he not gotten fired, 1-2 national championships? 3-5 big ten championships? good player's on and off the cout? anyway, i'm behind CTC all the way but i'm second guessing his coaching this season. I don't know if it's just me but he has been running a zero offence in my book and terrible sub patterns, no reason for a BobbyC, Elston, Watford, VJIII, Hulls to start and playing bawa at least 10min every game, every time jobe plays over bawa or at all i want to know why. rivers has hurt this team in my opinion, he blames other players for his stupid play and i don't watch practice but is he working on his shot at all? even though these kids we have coming in next year are 3 star players, i'm pretty excited for them, i have a good vibe on VO to be a super sub like aj moye and play great D!!! and Will S has a complete all around game and has a great attitude, it will be nice to see Dumes gone as well as “doesn't play well with others” Jobe because let's face it both off them were brought here because we had nobody else. Next year will be better i promise that and I still think by the time VJII and Pritchard our Seniors we will compete for a confrence championship andmaybe more. Keep cheering these boys on because it's a though time for them and all of us who bleed Hoosier basketball.

  • valpohistory

    I agree 100% about the Daniel Moore, Mo thing. He would have cashed that bucket Moore missed terribly on. He will make this team leaps and bounds better next year. He's getting stronger and smarter as a basketball player right now too. We may surprise a LOT of people next year.

  • valpohistory

    Sorry for double commenting, but the Elston thing: it's been widely speculated(and I think there could be some truth to this, not concrete however), on message boards for IU, that one of Elston/Watford will be transferring after the season. I feel it would be a tragedy because they both have IMMENSE amounts of talent to be developed, but transfers are a everyday thing in college basketball.

  • tyguyhunt

    I think it is unfair to discuss transfers like this. IMO Story and Williams may have felt forced out. They were thrown onto the team so that we could have a team. I really want to believe that the players will stay with IU and continue to evolve their game here. This would be great for this program moving forward. If someone like Watford transfers it will be a big set back IMO. I don't think Elston would transfer. He's an Indiana guy and I imagine loves playing for IU. It's one thing for fans to speculate and start rumors on message boards, but I think it was inappropriate to fuel the fire in this post.

  • Kelin Blab

    Oh….this just got saved in one of my favorites. Thanks for posting this video……I am still laughing…leave it to bob to put into perspective how I feel about Purdue.

  • Wish

    Hulls update: 30 minutes, 0 assists, 4 turnovers. This is becoming the norm for him.

  • LDIU

    I think Rivers is just aweful. How a kid can have access to a gyn all the time and make such poor decisions and be so fundamentally unsound is beyond me. Great to see Elston play more and better. His defense is questioned by some, but he is not worse than anyone else. They ALL need to improve. Elston could and will be a very, very good college bb player. He does play a little quck as times, but that is better than being too slow. I sure hope nobody transfers as this will set us back again.

  • Butch Joyner

    CW should easily have gained 20 lbs this year from all the leather he consumes each game day. As for JR, he needs to go to the pine even though he is very consistent. TO after TO, no offense at all and he is NOT a very effective defensive player. All in all a very hard team to watch as they show no improvement on the court and are not competitive.

  • JerryCT

    You are walking the plank with that stat man. Yes he turned it over early twice to start the game.

    However he actually played a real nice game thereafter and maybe his best game of the year. I say that because he defended Keaton Grant and did a real nice job in general on defense. He was not assigned lewis Jackson or another non scorer either. He also looked for and found some shots which we needed. He played hard , something JR had a difficult time doing in the first half.

  • JerryCT

    Was anybody else out there secretly hoping Capo and Pritchard would foul out so we could see Bawa ? I was elated when he got to play then Crean “sent in the goons” ( ala John Cheney )……unfortunately Bawa was the victim.

  • D-Boi

    This season has been dissapointing, yes. A lot of that can be credited to the injuries to Creek and Roth. However, there is no excuse for getting blown out like we have for the last 6 games. Many of the players seems to have lost interest and I wouldn’t be surprised if we saw some transfers, which would be devastating.

    I’m excited about Jordan Hulls though. He will be a great 4-year player that never quits and will only contiue to improve. CTC needs to get this crew behind him again. If he doesn’t, and guys like Watford and Elston transfer, we’re doomed.

    I’d like to think that this Moses Abraham kid could turn things around next year, but its doubtful. He’s ONE GUY and he’ll be a frosh. He’ll certainly help, but then again anyone who knows how to put in a layup that is over 6-7 will be labeled as an improvement of Pritchard. Pritchard is garbage. We need to just throw Bawa in the game and let him learn. It’s not like we are a bubble team and can’t afford to lose any games.

    The guys that excite me are Hulls, Watford, Creek, and Elston. If those 4 stay next year (and stay healthy) then we could be pretty good. And by pretty good I mean 15-18 wins.

  • ronb

    Your right he only had 8 points and the numbers you give are right. He had a poor game against a top rated team on their court. To have assists players have to get open and then hit the shot after you throw it to them. Assists are way down in the last 11 games because players are not hitting their shots. Hulls has the best turnover to assist ratio on the team and his numbers are nothing to crow about. Elston had a great game! After the game his comments were “I know if I play good defense and rebound I will get more playing time”. “Coach and I talked about it before the game tonight and I got more time on the court”. He understands why his minutes are low and he is responding. He is an IU kid and I can't believe he would ever leave IU. His future is bright for the next 3 years. Watford has got all the playing time he ever wanted and he is one of the best freshman in the Big Ten this year. Why would either one of these guys leave and go sit out a season??? I can't see that happening. In the real world there are thousands and thousands of IU fans. Just because a few Purdue fans and Coach Crean bashers post that crap on blog sites does not make it true! In reality they make a tiny group and they will post under many different names trying to stir up crap. The core of good players will be back next year hopefully stronger and more determined along with 2 athletic freshman.

  • ronb

    Jerry, You are right Hulls defense has improved since the start of the season and he did well with it last night. Jones was the one who got lost on defense and his guy hit some open 3's. I think he has improved this year and will get better next year if he can add some weight. Valpo, I saw the same thing. Coach needs to find a pine seat for him to set on.

  • Will

    Good players come to IU and Crean’s development program is at best questionable! Many coaches would like to have IU’s recruits to develop. How can you blame these kids when TC publically beats these players down. Crean is a master of deflection from his taking responsibility. Forget about developing an inside force, his track record is pitiful. Too many early warning signs of serious internal problems. I suspect the end of season fallout will be unbearable.

  • Kelin Blab

    Jerry I wanted the same thing. I just want to see bawa out there with the 'main' guys, given some touches on the offensive end, playing defense against J. Johnson and seeing what he can do. No use of protecting him at this point in the season. If you send him out there during garbage time he runs the chance of getting slapped in the face by Tijan….oh wait that did happen.

  • MillaRed

    I really wanted to hold off until after the Big Ten Tourney before I posted this but the season is over anyway so why not? I will preface it by saying I do not want CTC fired. I am rooting for IU, rooting for the players, and rooting for Coach Crean. But………..

    I am not impressed with how Coach Crean handled the team this year. There are many measurables and I will try to touch on a few of them.

    Player development – Creek was an anomaly. No one saw him coming. VIII picked up where he was last year. Hulls and Elston got a little better. However, Pritchard sunk very low. Rivers got worse and WORSE. Dumes was half the player this year. Watford was not able to make adjustments. The overall team hit rock bottom (literally in the Big Ten) rather than steadily improving. He lost the team.

    The Offense – Do I really need to elaborate here? What the h_ll are we running out there? This is the best you can do? Good grief!

    Playing Time – We have been on this topic all year. Where was Elston? Bawa? Hey, if we're gonna stink it up out there, put Rivers and Pritchard on the bench and DEVELOP the future. WTH?

    Recruiting – Yes, we had a good class this year I know. But the next two are not looking good. As a matter of fact, we are essentially the same team the next two years unless 2-3 players get Mo Creek like abilities in their sleep.

    The Record – 3 more wins? Really? Go ahead and play your Mo Creek card on this one if it makes you feel better. 3 more wins? OUCH!

    The 2011 season – Is Mo really going to be enough? Man I hope so. As it stands right now I will not make the mistake of having high expectations of an IU team. I would rather be surprised.

    End of season grade is a C-, hovering around a D!

  • Kreigh_Smiths_Short_Shorts

    I don't think they quit. They played against a top 10 team! Even without Hummel, they're really good. And IU isn't. Not yet anyway. I hate to say it, but the Hoosiers just didn't have the dogs to run with PU. Maybe got a little lazy, but they didn't quit. Maybe recognized they were overmatched and got dejected by that. But they didn't quit.

  • floridahoosier

    I've enjoyed the comments on this post and all the 'insight', however, I have not seen any comments about why our big men aren't doing so well. Incoming freshman need to be shown
    how to play the post, inside, the wing, because they've never played college before! Who's teaching the big men? What big man coach do we have? Does Crean's system even lend to teaching a big man? I have never seen such pitiful play from four guys that are 6' 8″ or over! I've coached B-ball and had little men do a better job than these BIG men. Athleticism can only benefit if you know how to play your position. I can't remember when I've seen someone 6' 8″ get his shot blocked as many times as CW has this year. Who's teaching this kid anyhow? What ever happened to the head fake? I guess, as a guest, that I'm frustrated because I don't see ANY BIG
    helping us unless the system changes to incorporate them. Thanks for letting me rattle.

  • kesims

    WE NEED TO USE THE NEXT TWO DAYS TO SPREAD THE WORD ABOUT MOSES ABRAHAM BEING IN HERE ON SATURDAY. UNFORTUNATELY, I DO NOT LIVE IN B-TOWN AND HAVE NO CONNECTIONS FOR DOING SO BUT I WOULD IMAGINE SOME OF YOU WHO FREQUENT THIS SITE DO. WE NEED MULTIPLE CHANTS AND MULTIPLE SIGNS. YOU ADD MOSES TO OUR LINEUP WITH A HEALTHY CREEK AND WE ARE COMPETITIVE AGAIN.

    MOSES
    WATFORD
    VJIII
    CREEK
    HULLS

    Sorry for the caps im not retyping. But that is a pretty strong lineup, especially when you think about the subs being the likes of elston, VO, Sheehey, Rivers, Capo,. Our team may have ended the season below expectations but I see a pretty solid athletic team if we can land an athletic big man. Watford will be dominant once he gets to play his natural position and him playing a big man this year will only help him in the long run and he will be more versatile and tougher.

    We have to make Moses feel like he will be a star and savior in bloomington. Please students go all out.

  • BoilerCat

    I think IU could improve themselves maybe by cutting ties with Jeremiah Rivers as the PG. He is not a true leader on the court and seems to take criticism not well (Refer to the 15:09 of 1st Half last night when Crean gives him an earful and he writes off the coach after he turns around.) He is an extremely poor mans John Wall at best. His jump shot is not there as a RS Jr, even though he has practiced with the team for almost two years now. Who knows I may be wrong? Losing Creek was a big factor in a disappointing season but, the lack of leadership by Rivers may of had as much impact.

  • CreamandCrimson

    -Victor Oladipo COULD be the Kramer type of player we need. If he is, it will be a huge help.
    -Could not agree more with the Rivers comment. He has been absolutely horrid for the better part of this season. I honestly don't understand why he is playing the primary point at this time in the season. His decision making has become increasingly poor, he can't contribute on offense and his defense hasn't been great during most of this losing streak.
    -I am only 22 so I have seen a lot of bad IU basketball. However, this team takes the cake as the hardest to watch. Please end this season now before I lose ALL hope for next year!

  • chitowniufan

    Elston finally plays more than 10 minutes! Well deserved. I know his defense can be a liability, but it could not be any worse than TP or Rivers the Clown turning the ball over every 2 minutes? As far as Elston transferring could you blame the kid? He has sat in CTC's dog house all season watching from the bench as the starters make the same mistakes over and over and remain on the court. Elston will be a great player if given the chance to develop. You are all kidding yourselves if you think CTC helped Elston develop as a player this season. He never gave Elston a Clap, Clap, Tan, Clap, Clap, Tan, Clap, Clap. He sent him to the bench every time a mistake was made. I hope he stays, but I do not trust CTC in giving Elston the PT he deserves or the chance to develop into a great player.

  • CreamandCrimson

    A couple of notes about recruiting for the next two years.

    1. Next year's class has two players that fill a big need. VO and Sheehey are both solid players that bring athleticism to the wing position. If (big if) Moses Abraham is added, he will be a huge addition to the front court.

    2. The 2011 class isn't complete. Matt Carlino is a really good player and Austin Etherington is solid and could develop into a very nice piece for the Hoosiers.

    I understand your frustration with this year's team but recruiting is not a big problem right now. We could definitely use a marquee player or two and a couple of bigs but recruiting is not a huge issue at the moment.

  • JerryCT

    I cannot disagree with you but I have a slightly different understanding but give the same grade.

    OFFENSE STRATEGY: I think CTC rightly chose to overweight the transition game because it fit JR,Creek and other players in general. Against UMISS in the first few minutes it was awesome. What happened is that we were never good on defense to get the stops to be effective at transition throughout a game. Then Mo goes down and he stuck with it too long thinking it could be fixed or Hulls could be Creek or Roth would come back. GRADE=D for not making a radical shift in scheme

    DEFENSE: This is difficult to develop because a player cannot develop this alone with just a ball. We had too many freshmen to develop and Jones may be impossible. So what does CTC do ? Play zone and retard the growth or suffer with the man D. We ran both but not effective at either. GRADE= C-

    DEVELOPMENT: Except for a completely depressed JR , Jones on D, and Pritchard's offense I feel they all got better, Hulls is battling through screens more often, Dumes in more control, Capo plays some decent minutes, and IMO Elston has the most potential on the team because he plays quick, head is up to pass, bangs/scraps hard and fast and has a nice shooting touch.GRADE=B

    PLAYING TIME: I have not liked the rotation all year having wanted a bigger lineup more often, a defensive lineup more often and more development time for Bawa . GRADE =C

    RECRUITING: There is a SCOOP article on CTC's recruiting approach which after reading I was forced to agree with him and see that his recruits are in fact exactly what he wants. GRADE=B

    CREEK: I am worried that his knee will effect him and his game has not progressed for a full season. Keep in mind his D was not good except in open court and his game was open 3 in transition or layup in transition and not much in the 1/2 court scheme. I think burdening him with too high expectations is something to worry about

    Sorry to be so long winded Millared but I believe we will be a different team next year and CTC will be a different coach in some respects.

    My Question: If we keep recruiting so many versatile players who can handle the ball, and Elston/Capo can pop and pass from the post, Then why not make the Princeton Offense our secondary offense after transition ? My case would be that JR, Creek, VO, SHeehey, VJ can all backdoor , it better fits Hulls at PG and Pritchard, Capo can focus on screens and passing

  • the bus driver

    jeremiah rivers is awful, i wouldn't even wish him on purdue.

  • http://insidethehall.com Ben_M

    I honestly think the only players that should return are:
    1. Watford – SF
    2. VJ III – SG/SF
    3. Mo Creek – SG
    4. Hulls – PG
    5. Elston – PF/SF
    6. Roth SG
    7. Bobby PF

    then we would have
    8. Sheehey SG/SF- who I think is going to be a great player for IU
    9. Victor SG/SF- I really like the way he wants to be a hoosier

    Then we could
    10. Land Moses C
    11. Juco – center
    12. Juco – power forward
    13. Juco – point gaurd
    (14.) Moore PG (walk on)
    (15.) Rivers PG (sort of) (walk on)
    This would make a lot more sense bringing in 2 6-5 guys (Victor and Will). Juco's would bring some better experience and leave schollys open for a later date. I wouldn't really like so see River's pay for his own scholly. I didn't think that at first, but the guy hasn't proven to be scholly worthy.
    I really think Tom Pritchard is hurting us because of our style of play. Crean doesn't have a half court offense and Pritchard wasn't made to run. Probably better for both parties. I would love to see a simple play for Bawa to get a dunk, but its not going to happen. Whats the point in playing a guy 20 minutes a year during garbage time. This is what IU needs to do.

  • MillaRed

    C and C I share in your prayers for Moses (no pun intended). But with Creek and VIII being our best players I am not sure what the two new kids can bring.

    In my twisted perfect world, with a stronger, more experienced VJIII, he goes back to point guard with Mo at the two, CW at the three, and some combo of Elston, Capo, TP and Bawa at the four and five.

    That starting line-up makes Rivers (Who if never is heard from again is fine with me) and Hulls as the back-ups at these spots. Maybe these new guys can back up Watford at the three and spend time at the two? It sure helps with depth.

    As you said, 2011 isn't complete, nor is 2010. If we can add a legitimate big man to one of those clasees I will feel better. Preferably a 4-star if you catch my drift!

  • GFDave

    Well, in several recent interviews Coach has indicated that this team lacks toughness and that some soft players may not be back (paraphrasing). He said this with Fisch post game last night and I've heard it before. So who are the players that lack toughness?

    1. Pritchard. His problem seems to be be mental toughness and the ability to translate skills from practice to game. He is losing playing time.
    2. Rivers. He just simply thinks that he is better than he is. When he went down the lane last night and chose to do the fancy layup, which he missed, rather than the two hand slam I screamed. Rivers is feeling very enabled right now. Is respect for the game an issue?
    3. Watford. Physically weak. One post move. Mentally slow on D. Good shooter. Active rebounder. High potential to be better.

    So I guess that Crean will probably ask for a transfer or two. I would be real surprised if Watford is asked to go. So, the real issue is whether someone we don't want to lose transfers (eg Wat, Elston, Hulls). At minimum, I would say Pritchard is not going to be back next year. Maybe Bawa too.

    Finally, this team is bad. Young, but bad. Changing a few of the pieces isn't going to bother me much.

  • aceman07

    Okay, I've sat here and read every post so far and I purposefully held off on posting last night because I wanted to see what most of you had to say after this game. So here's what I think: I think this team played hard and gave everything they last night. Unfortunately, everything they had was 19 points less than a Hummeless PU. Just think about this . . . throw Mo Creek out there and his 16 point per game average and all the sudden they're best becomes a 3 point game.

    Elston, Hulls, Watford, Jones, Capo, and even Pritchard played hard. To me the weakness and downfall of this team this year is JR. I think back to the Purdue and Illinois games earlier in the season and as I recall Hulls and Jones had good games and JR turned the ball over, gave us nothing on offense, and really didn't make others around him better. Against the Illini he contributed 6 points, 3 rebound, 1 turnover, and 2 assists in 28 minutes! Against PU he gave us 7 points, 2 rebounds, 4 assists, and 3 turnovers in 27 minutes. And his numbers have only declined since then. I see the looks on his face, his shaking head, his ignoring the coach and even sticking his nose in the air and I begin to think that HE IS THE PROBLEM ON THIS TEAM. The player on this team that by age and experience should be the leader isn't! He appears to be the problem. If there's a cancer in the locker room dragging this team down it's JR. Watching his game and his apparent attitude would tell me that he shouldn't touch the floor the rest of this year and next year unless there's a huge change.

    I think there is a future. I don't know about Bawa because we don't get to see if he has developed anything, but I'll give up on that and just go with what I see. Derek Elston is going to be a very good college basketball player. Soon, his mind and body will catch up with his very quick feet and he will possess a very solid inside/outside game for a big man. CW is going to be a very solid college 3 man. He will continue to improve his shooting and get stronger and I DON'T SEE ANY REASON FOR EITHER OF THESE GUYS TO TRANSFER SO I DON'T THINK THEY WILL!!!

    Think about it! They saw their teammate and probably their friend go down for the year with a freak knee injury. They see how the season has turned from that point. They are tired of losing, yes, but they probably understand what's going on and I think once the season ends they will feel relief but look forward to next season with Mo Creek.

    Last, I think the recruiting class is actually what we need especially if we can land Moses Abraham and here's why: Sheehey and Oladipo are both athletes and we don't have many of those! They can run, jump, and should be able to defend athletic players. Give us one super athletic defensive stopper to slow down players like Moore and E. Turner and all of the sudden the other guys aren't having to suck off their men so much leaving open threes and dump offs. Throw Moses into that class and all the sudden it's one of the more athletic classes we've seen at IU in a long time. Athletes, athletes, athletes is what this team needs. Whether they're high flying scorers, or just high flying rebounders and defenders, they will help!

    I'm going to start praying everyday that Abraham goes with that “I can be the hero who turn IU around” attitude and comes out to Bloomington because I think if he committed then all the sudden IU is a possible tournament team next year. Yes, I said it, NEXT YEAR! As it stands now, I still think it's possible for these guys to finish NIT eligible next year if Mo Creek is healthy and the players we have stick around and work hard to get better but I don't think that JR is a piece to that puzzle.

    How could we possibly be disappointed if IU was an NIT team next year and wouldn't you be thrilled just to be a one and done NCAA tourney team with Abraham as a freshman?

    A future with the following would be promising:

    Hulls
    Jones
    Creek
    Watford
    Oladipo
    Sheehey
    Elston
    Capo
    Pritchard
    Abraham
    Bawa (maybe)

    That's a pretty deep and pretty athletic team with at least a competitive talent base!

    I respect everyone's opinions on here even though I disagree sometimes but these are mine!!!

  • MillaRed

    Well said Jerry. I like it. We're mostly on the same page. So Crean is getting the players he wants. OK we'll give him that. But the jury is out if we keep getting outrebounded and pushed around. We're in the Big Ten, not the Big East. It's a different game.

    It cracks me up at how the commentators note how IU was such a good offfensive rebounding team. When you shoot 30% from the field it isn't hard to do!

  • MillaRed

    Rivers looks to have the patented “My dad is a millionaire” attitude and thinks he can do no wrong.

    JR is NOT the answer for IU at the point. He came off the bench to pressure the best scorer at GTown. And that should be his role at IU. Major dissappointment.

  • MillaRed

    One thing that scares me is if Crean scoffs at JR, how does daddio reflect on him and the program? The guy could be donating 100K a year for all we know.

    This is the downside to locking up a kid with this kind of background. If he doesn't deliver you are left holding the baggage.

  • mltiu86

    I am disappointed on how Crean has developed those centers…… Bawa, Jobe, Pritchard and Capo. No improvement in the post at all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Bawa and Pritichard should be better contributors at this point.

  • JerryCT

    Sorry GFDave to disagree but I donot think any transfer makes the team better.

    1. Pritchard – sets the best screen, the best hedger in the B10, always bodies his man on D rebounding ……we have no one to replace him . We are better off either changing the scheme to use his screens better and/or develop his offense skills

    2. JR – he is almost always the most athletic player of either team on the floor. He appears to be mentally disheartened now and needs some counseling to repair his floor game. You played basketball and you know that a player can learn a little touch on his shot. JR has even begun to hit FT's lately

    3. Watford – He needs work but mostly on his physical core strength and foot quickness. He is still our best player right now

    Toughness – the only player who make lack “toughness” , other than JR's attitude right now is Jones on defense. Has he made it over the top of a single ball screen this year ? I love VJ but he kills us on D.

    I think we are in good shape for next year if we maintain continuity and heal from the down hearted attitudes I see right now

  • http://insidethehall.com Ben_M

    I think you want Tom Pritchard to be better than he is. What he is…… is 2ppg and 3rpg. Thats not going to cut it for a starting center in the big ten. He can't hit bunnies….nor can he hit free throws. With a little coaching….anybody can set a screen…I'm not impressed by that.

    The only thing saving Rivers from leaving is that he is a tranfer senior…and his dad. The kid is terrible. Trust me there is nothing I would like to be saying more than ” Wow Rivers is the best driving point guard IU has had in a long time.” “I'm really impressed with Rivers leading the Big Ten in steals.” “Wow with this guys shooting ability and mental toughness Georgetown really missed out on this kid.” The fact is the kid can't play the game in order to make the people around him better…and thats not a good trait of a point gaurd.

    Watfod is going to be a great basketball player. The first thing that needs to happen is he needs to play the small forward. Having a 6-9 small forward would be a huge advantage to Indiana. Similar to a Jefferies type player. He needs time to get his low post game together. What worked in highschool obviously doesn't work in D1 ball. He also needs better players at the power forward and center to keep the defense honest on him and allow him to dish the ball off. I really feel for this kid. I mean here is a kid who was touted as a great player and now he as at Indiana loosing left and right. Give it time Watford things are going to get better and you will be respected as a great part of Indiana basketball history some day.

  • aceman07

    True, but two things come to mind at this point in the this. The first is “who cares”. What damage could be worse than what IU is suffering through already? Second, we know what family contributes the most money to the school and to the program. The new basketball center is going to be named after them not Doc Rivers so how bad could it hurt us? Do you agree that it appears as if Rivers is the problem at least during games? I watched him pretty much blame someone else for a huge turnover last night when there was no possible blame to be placed on anyone but himself and he appeared to even stick to that story when CTC attempted to coach him.

  • IULaw10

    Too many posters are forgetting or ignoring player development. It's easy to think of VJIII's defense as a constant or write off TP completely as a bust, but these supposed “veterans” are merely sophomores. They have so much time to grow as basketball players. I do not want to see any player from the class of 2012 transfer.

    As for Rivers, perhaps we've realized he's not the offensive lynchpin many of us were hoping for, but calling for him to leave is absurd. He is far and away our best perimeter on the ball defender and our most athletic player. If he focuses on good passes and being a lock-down defender in his senior season, he's an important component of our Indiana Hoosiers.

    I'll be in the student section for the NW game praying to Moses, but I'm unconvinced he's the game changer for the program. I think that role falls to Marquis Teague (if he wants it) and DSR.

    Reports say Moses is still very raw offensively (something that was also said about Bawa). However, I saw the video of Will Yeguete on Peegs and have to say that he's just a player. I really, really want him to be a Hoosier. I don't care how many stars he has next to his name. He put up 16 and 9 against some really good (and physically big) competition recently.

  • tyguyhunt

    Question…Does it seem like Moses' guardian/advisor/whatever is kind of making the choice for him? All the comments are from him and I've never heard anything actually from Abraham.

  • MillaRed

    I'm with you Aceman but we are not Crean and Doc Rivers is a major player in the realm of U.S. basketball. I'm not trying to create a story that doesn't exist. I'm just thinking out loud.

    If you are really, really, really bored, look back on my last 50 posts. I'm sure they are 75% “I can't stand Rivers.”

    He is that guy in pick-up games. The one that gets on your _ss when you don't block out then throws a pass to New Zealand and acts like nothing happened.

    Dribbles off his foot, “My bad coach, my bad.”

    Quardruple clutches a lay-up brick………

    Passes the ball to an opponent standing 10 feet in front of him, then hangs his head and gives up the layup anyway?

    Who cares if this guy can play defense? It isn't enough to overcome the 10 horrible aspects of his game.

    When I saw him shrug off Crean last night it was lights out for me. I ABSOLUTELY believe he very well could be bad for spirit of the team. He doesn't seem to respect his teammates, his coach or the game itself.

    Most importantly, he doesn't have the mental toughness or intelligence for the game.

  • IUDan

    Don't disagree with your overall premise, but did want to add to the discussion on player development. One thing that is very essential in player development is having upperclassmen who can help take some of the development burden off the coaching staff. We obviously don't have that. The other thing is that it's hard to develop a project type player like Bawa (for example) when the starters/main rotation players need work as well.

    So I agree with Jerry's B on development – I think this area will get better as players get more experience.

    Was great to see Elston have a good game last night – I think he's a big piece to our future success.

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