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The Minute After: Iowa

by in The Minute After | February 28th, 2010

FINAL SCORE: 73-57 | Box Score

It’s easy to chalk this one up as uninspired effort by the Hoosiers.

But this loss was somewhat different than what we’ve seen lately.

Let’s break it down:

SHOOTING

It may not have felt like it the way the Hoosiers started out against Iowa, but they hit 45.0 percent of their shots tonight. Only twice previous to this matchup during this now 10-game losing streak — at Wisconsin and the home loss to Purdue –  have the Hoosiers shot over 40 percent.

In fact, they actually hit 11-of-21 shots in the second half, good for 52.4 percent. Two reasons for this: 1) They went down low to Christian Watford early. It appeared as if this was a point of emphasis in the locker room at halftime. 2) IU’s guards took it to the hole for some higher-percentage shots around the rim.

Iowa also only had three blocks, which means IU beat out their 13.2 percent opponent block percentage and didn’t waste so many chances on the offensive end. (Yes, it’s risen to 13.2 percent. IU now ranks 340th out the the 347 Division I teams in this category. Oof.)

Verdell Jones, who hasn’t had a scoring outburst he’s capable of in a while, re-emerged tonight with 22.

I know it’s yet another loss, but outside of IU’s 1-of-8 mark from beyond the arc, this was actual a pretty solid offensive effort for the Hoosiers tonight. There was more ball movement, more passing and they got some better looks because of it.

SO WHY DID THEY GET SMOKED AGAIN?

Iowa was able to negate the Hoosiers’ two best strengths: offensive rebounding and free-throw rate. The Hawkeyes grabbed 11 offensive boards, which led to eight second-chance points. Iowa also got to the line 38 times — a staggering 31 of those came in the second half — and converted on 26 of those attempts. The Hoosiers did hit 20-of-25 from the line for a solid 80.0 percent, but with them scoring four second-chance points and making six less free throws — there’s 10 points left hanging.

But the 20 turnovers are really what killed them tonight. Time and again, IU turned the ball over — many times unforced, mind you — and Iowa did a terrific job of getting out on the break and making the Hoosiers pay for their mistakes. In all, Iowa scored 23 points off IU’s miscues.

That’s a lot.

Cut that in half, and we suddenly have ourselves a ballgame.

And due to IU’s 11 first-half turnovers and Iowa’s better job on the offensive boards , the Hawkeyes had 44 attempts from the field in the first half to IU’s 24. That’s 20 more opportunities to score.

That’s a lot.

Had the Hawkeyes been more than 1-of-12 from 3-point land in the first half, the Hoosiers would have been down a lot more than nine at the break.

So yes: a better, more focused scoring effort for IU tonight. But it simply wasn’t enough to make up for all its other deficiencies.

  • Guest

    its tough to create for others when they dont convert or turn the ball over. when creek was healthy hulls had a much higher assist total a game because when he passed him the ball or should i say “created a shot” for him, he actually made the shots. he’s shown the ability to penetrate and will only get stronger with a summer of getting more strength and lateral quickness. there is a reason he is a winner at every level and with all the hype it was never said he was an impact scorer. thats not his game and yeah when he has more capable scorers around him and matures his game, he will flourish and those who are disappointed with him will see what he is worth.

  • Wish

    Hulls: 33 minutes, 1 assist
    JR: 23 minutes, 0 assists
    VJ III: 37 minutes, 1 assist
    That's the starting 'backcourt'. 2 assists, 9 turnovers.

    15 boards out of CW, Pritchard, Capobianco, TP and Elston. That's the frontcourt.

    Those are two huge problems to solve. I know some of these guys have to be here next year but outside of CW, VJ III and Creek, I'm not sure who I'd want. The young guys, except for CW, are getting their butts handed to them by everyone in this conference, including other freshmen.

  • http://insidethehall.com Ben_M

    add hulls and elston to that list

  • Kelin Blab

    Great article and I am glad you pulled out some good from the bad.
    My good is:
    + One game closer to the season being over
    + Christian Watford was more effective in this game and I only saw three of his shots bet blocked. CW is a 3 man until he puts on some pounds
    + Mo Creek looks healthy

    I am not sure what Bawa has done or not done to earn ZERO minutes. He played against Purdue and see's not time against Iowa..come on coach, he can't do any worse. Secondly, I would play give some of Rivers minutes or Dumes at times to Finky….again, he can' t do any worse.

    Looking forward to this week….
    + Will IU get up for the PU game or get beat by 40?
    + Senior Night vs NW…will Tijan play or start or neither.

  • http://www.prinsportsblog.com BGleas

    My only thought about Bawa during today's game is that Crean is hoping he transfers. There's no other reason to not at least throw him out there for some minutes.

  • Kreigh_Smiths_Short_Shorts

    IU just has very few scoring options. Once you get past VJIII and CW, there's nobody really. Maybe the occasional Dumes getting hot, or Hulls throwing down some treys, but there's not much else. The scoring output has just been abysmal.

  • aceman07

    I totally agree with Bawa!!! What the heck does he have to lose? Also, I saw some good things early from Elston only to see that he finished the game with 12 minutes, 2 pts, 4 rebounds, 1 asst, 0 turnovers, and 1 blk. Why the “blank” didn't he play more??? I missed the second half of the game but the only positive I can take from tonight's game was that I won some money playing cards instead of watching the second half!!!

  • http://www.prinsportsblog.com BGleas

    I agree, I think losing any of Creek, Watford, VJIII, Elston or Hulls is tough to recover from. Some from a talent perspective and others from more of the perception it would give. We can't lose any of those guys IMO.

    With that said, Hulls has been a disappointment to me so far, although some of that is due to how some people hyped him up. I realize he's only freshmen and he's probably a guy that benefits more from having good players around him, but at this point I'd even say Cully Payne is the better player.

    I'm probably going to get crushed for this post, but I thought he was going to be a guy that was going to be able to dribble penetrate and create shots for others. I hope and think he'll be able to do that down the line, but right now his main purpose is to just get the ball across half court.

    I was a Rivers guy coming into the season, and fully admit I was 100% wrong on that, but man, both these guys have really disappointed this season.

  • http://www.prinsportsblog.com BGleas

    I don't think Elston should have been pulled for this, because the entire team pretty much stinks, but when Elston came in at one point in the second half he immediately gave up a rebound/layup on the missed free throw and came right out of the game.

    He played decent minutes in the first half. I think Bawa is as good as gone.

  • SeattleHoosier

    What happened to that team that took Purdue and Illinois (on the road) down to the wire??? It's hard to believe we show up like this against Iowa.

    On the positive side, it was nice to see Crean and the team pushing it so hard at the end when they could have just given up.

    It's getting hard to be a IU men's baskeball fan…

  • Casey

    I have pondered the same thing, but you would think he's at least as good as tijan. Effort in practice maybe?

  • Kelin Blab

    BGleas…..first…. you may be right on Bawa, I cannot cannot cannot understand why he isn't getting any minutes on this team at this point in the season, and that may be a tough decision Crean will have to make…it may not be left up to bawa. Good point….

    Not sure if you saw Hulls in H.S., but in all honesty, that is who Hulls is, the steering wheel of the team. He never wowed anyone at South, he never 'took' over games so to speak, but he was always the smartest player on the court, the player you knew who would not hurt you, and the leader on the court. He is the guy that makes the play that leads to the play…..

    Don't give up on him, I promise you, Hulls will be the leader of this team and we will be the better for it.

  • Kelin Blab

    Gleas…..you know that is the 11th commandment….Thous shalt not give up a rebound off a F/T. Your coach, my coach, hell my mom would have pulled my ass in a heart beat for that. I like how Elston and Bobby C are the 'nasty” guys on this team. They may have found their niche…

  • BaseballBuc

    I agree with you to an extent on Hulls. You are right about him not producing. But think of it this way, if Hulls goes to any other program, lets say Duke or Purdue. Do you really think he would play, let alone start his freshman year? I think Hulls is hurt by the fact that he is small and he can't create his own shot. I still LOVE what he brings. This is why: he is a very smart basketball player and we all can see that. He is a guy that knows IU bball tradition and is going to come in and play 110% all the time. Even though he is a frosh, he brings a leadership and a toughness IU just doesn't have right now. We all know about his shooting ability. Of course, this is all my opinion, and I adhere to your frustration. As far as Rivers goes, I agree absolutely 100%. I think we were all dead wrong with him at this point.

  • aceman07

    My only question then is who the heck does CTC have coming in to replace him. I understand hoping a couple guys transfer if you are reloading like a Duke or Kentucky but right now nobody wants to play here anyway so who is going to fill the spot? We already have one open scholarship so are we just going to let 2-3 ride a couple year until a 4 or 5 star recruit wants to come? Seems like cutting off your nose to spite your face to me!

  • Kelin Blab

    How rivers fooled us…
    + His name, Dad, and Brother….
    + Went to a final 4 with G'Town
    + He was an upperclassmen on a young team
    + He is a coaches kid

    What more could you want in a transfer. Where is Marco Killingsworth when you need him?

  • Kelin Blab

    aceman07…. if it even happens, you take a guy who doesn't and won't play, use that scholly on another kid in the LOADED 2012 class. Now you go from signing a DSR, Hollowell, and Patterson to sigining another from that class….If Crean does well with 2012 kids in Indiana alone, that vaults Indiana quickly….

  • jaygo97

    I just can't hardly watch this team anymore. Instead of progressing we're degressing! We look like a J.V. team against Iowa! Are you kidding me!

  • MillaRed

    If Hulls got major minutes with a Duke or other top 10 team he would be averaging 4-5 assists per game. IU has no fast break, no finishers and no one to give him consistent looks at an open 3. I just think it's a tough year to judge our freshmen. If he is playing at this level as a junior, we certainly missed on him.

  • runelord

    Their shooting is terrible and the 45% is misleading as there was about 6 layups in a row when it was basically over to pad the stats. Most of the game the shooting was bad, coupled with turnover every other minute, then you are going to get smoked no matter who you play. Sooner or later some shots will start falling consistently and we'll be competitive again. They played hard but just shot the ball very poorly.

  • LDIU

    It does seem that CTC has Elston on a much shorter leash than any other players. Rivers can commit turnover after turnover and just dribble, dribble to death and still plays a lot of meaningful minutes. It baffles me how a coaches kid that has had access to thye gym all his life can be so findamentally poor. I don’t understand Crean’s substitution pattern at all. We make a run after a horrible start at 17-4 and get it back to 21-17 and then he subs out 3 of the players that helped in the run. I would love to see what Elston and Watford could do together if they both played 30+ minutes.
    Rotate in Pritchard and Bobby C. for the other minutes. Also, I am not liking Bobby C’s yapping at the other players. To think that things might improve next year may be wishful thinking.

  • vslice

    Agreed, with everything about Hulls. He wouldn't be playing much at all on any other team right now. Even non ranked teams with experience would not be giving him the minutes that he HAS to play here at IU. I like Hulls and think he will be much better, along with all the other guys, next year. Even though these kids have gotten throttled by everyone Im telling you all this experience is going to pay off eventually. Maybe not next year, but eventually these tough lessons will be put to positive use. As for Rivers, man I dont know what to say. I really thought he was a much better ballplayer. He seems lost, out of control, scared to shoot, and on and on. He does rebound well, but outside that he doesnt add much to this team and I think he knows it.

  • trillman88

    Elston a knucklehead? handful for a coach? well i can assure u that is not the case. Other than hulls, i would guess he the first player in line to listen to what CTC has to say even if Crean has something against him…

  • Wish

    I'd take Cully Payne in a heartbeat over Hulls at this point. I don't think it matters what program Hulls is in, he is what he is. He wouldn't play for an elite squad and we're seeing what he can do on a mediocre, at best, squad.

    I'd keep Elston if I thought Crean was going to actually play him. It would be nice to see an IU opponent get hammered to the floor one time when going for a layup.

  • Druid

    Well guys, it seems the “youth” excuse can't be used for this game. Iowa is just as youthful. Which brings me to a question I have, and that is were we out coached? Our team was consistently out of position on defense which lead to easy shots dropping for Iowa and we couldn't buy an open shot which meant they were where they were suppose to be on defense. It seemed our bigs were out of position on rebounds on both ends of the court and theirs weren't. Our bigs evidently can't jump more than 6 inches off the floor either. I saw some rebounds where their bigs reached over the heads of our to grab a rebound and we were either standing flat footed or barely off the ground. Speaking of our bigs, would someone please explain to me why when your 6'8″ or taller you try to lay up a shot under the basket when you can be sure it goes in by dunking it? This drives me crazy!! To further my rant, our guards can't beat a middle school team off the dribble. Constantly moving the ball around the perimeter until the shot clock is under 10 seconds and either turning the ball over or jacking up some desperation shot is ridiculous. The bottom line is that Iowa is just as youthful as we are. They have beaten us twice this year by double digits each time. How is this possible after the way we played against purdue, illinoise, Minnesota, michigan, and Penn St.? We had the “top 10 recruiting class” and Iowa didn't. What the hell is going on in B'town? At this point in the season, which I might add is way past lost, wy aren't we playing some of our bench players? It is obvious that our starters aren't getting it done and have obviously given up on this season, which really pisses me off. We need a team of Michael Lewis' who are tuff and will never give up. I say give all of our bench players the remaining games to play this season and sit the starters down. Perhaps that will clarify some things for them. If not, don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

  • marsh21

    So true….

  • JerryCT

    The team seems to be in a rut and they are now immune to CTC's enthusiasm. We need a shake up. I proposed a radical idea that CTC hire an outside consultant , eg Lute Olsen, Dick Bennett etc, to bring fresh insight into the product ……in order to avoid ……….”Breathing your own exhaust”

    I saw some positives last night , but i was trying hard to see them:

    1) Hulls getting better through ball screens but still no cigar
    2) Some motion offense and off ball screens
    3) Finally going low to CW
    4) brief glimpse at the end of the game of the JR we had in the early season

    I like VJ but his defense is killing us

  • marsh21

    Elston plays zero defense and cannot block out to save his life. His impact is negative. Ex. During a FT for Iowa, Elston could not put a body on the second block position, lost the position and Iowa scores on the offensive rebound. Crean took him out the next dead ball.

    I like the kid, but he needs help.

  • Kelin Blab

    JerryCT–

    I am not sure an outside voice would help if most of the problems are internal. I think this teams issues fall into their youth, execution, lack of leadership, talent, and Crean's system. I don't know what a new voice would do especially when you have to D-1 head coaches sitting on the bench.

  • plane1972

    I posted before how I think too much has come too fast for VJIII. It will be interesting to see how he responds to being the 2nd or 3rd scoring option when Creek returns.

    On a grander scale, two years in the cellar is hard to take for the players (though, most were only here for 1 of those years and watched the previous year). Crean deserves a few rounds of golf and a couple of days by the pool, then he needs to hit the Diet Coke and get after it again this off-season. This season needs to end before another injury or some implosion of personalities occurs. The last 10 games just highlight how the loss of Creek devastated this team that had zero margin for lost talent. These freshman will all be better next year. I like Elston a lot, and think he is going to be a strong player, but he strikes me as something of a knucklehead. I can imagine him being a handful to coach. If he can survive paying his dues, then he'll be something. I agree with Kelin that Hulls will be good, too. Hopefully CW can find his way to the 3 with Creek back in the lineup. Darkest before dawn.

  • kentuckyhoosier

    Hmmmm , Im tired , disgusted , angry , let down and dissapointed . My brain has cramped up thinking that i can find something positive about this big ten season . All im sure about is that I really thought that Crean was better than this.. and again i dont see any difference makers coming to bloomington next year . Iowa is just about as young as us , and they beat us down like everyone else , Lickliter has OWNED Tom Crean this year in everyway possible .

  • Hoagland

    This is why I love this site. What do any of you really expect here? Could Hulls play better? Absolutley but why does he not get the same coddling that Watford gets for being a freshman? Watford can put up double digit points yea, but when he does, it takes getting blocked 3 times and about 1/3 of the teams possesions. When hulls puts up double digits, its with 7 shots or less and we ended up being close or winning most of those games. So he had 1 assist tonight, this is true when looking at a stat sheet, but where should he be getting more? The offense right now is for him to pass it off to Rivers, Jones, or Watford, then no one else touches the ball the rest of the possesion, unless they can't create anything, then Jordy has to run and get it and start all over. This offense is terrible and doesn't give our point a chance to get an assist.

    Here are the keys to next year for this team and Hulls is a HUGE part of them, he's one of our only kids who understands basketball, no matter what his size is. Here are the keys to next year and moving forward:

    1. The Hulls and Creek relationship. Plain and simple. Hulls is our only point who can hit him with a pass in the chest when hes in position to score. Rivers throws balls at knees or just drops it out there. Creek and Hulls room together and you can see them talking on the bench all the time. If everyones savior, fallback excuse, and legitimate best player on our team thinks Hulls is important, shouldn't you? Creek seems to love him some Hulls, and now with the minutes he will get, I bet he will love playing with him next year, a lot more than he enjoys playing with Rivers who thinks about himself first. Which leads to…

    2. Rivers, Verdell, and Watford all need extra film sessions to realize they aren't superstars and while they might be the best athletes or put up points for this team, everyone knows Creek is coming back, and being one of the 3 best on a sub 10 win team, doesn't mean much. They either need to play as a TEAMATE, or ride the pine. We absolutley need Verdell and Watford out there, but if they can't buy into any production that doesn't involve them scoring 20 points, but taking them 40+ possesions to do this while we drown as a team down 20+, then they need to sit until they figure it out. Also, Verdell, you play cuz we need you buddy, but if we had anyone else, any talent behind you like may be coming, you wouldn't see the floor cuz your defense is awful. Just terrible.

    3. Adjust the looking glass on Pritch. The kid is obviously pressing so hard from all the critisism. He came here to be a boarder and a big body. He does that pretty well. Take out the first 9 games his freshman year when he HAD to touch the ball and score for us, and would anyone really expect him to be a first team all big ten center? He used to put up more points, but he also touched the ball a lot more in the offense. No plays are run to him, he only gets a shot off of boards he creates himself. The platoon of him and Capo works if they can both board, play solid D without fouling, and slip a few screens/grab boards for put backs and 8 to 10 points. They can do this if everyone stopped freaking out when neither kid performs like Demarcus Cousins. Pritch would fould out even faster if he tried Cousins post moves and hooked with his elbow like that.

  • tg1438

    I completely agree with the few scoring options. I've thought a lineup of Hulls, VJ3, Dumes, Elston, and Wat (definately playing a zone because of the lack of defense) would provide the best offense if played together in spurts.

  • tg1438

    I was thinking myself that with the lack of enthusiasm from some of the guys lately that maybe a few of the walk-ons (Finky) get a shot again. Maybe these freshman are feeling a little entitled to things because they have to play. Maybe give a wake-up call to some people. Because with so little talent last year, the one thing you could never say was that they didn't play hard all the time.

  • RJS

    well, I will continue to support and root for my Hoosiers no matter what my come. Here’s looking forward once again for Midnight Madness and 2010-2011 season. I just know in my heart that the post season is somewhere on the horizon, please!!!!!!

  • JerryCT

    ” problems are internal” ……..that is exactly my point………too much in-breeding of the player rotations, schemes and practices etc. I think an outside perspective could never hurt a coach and team who are losing .

    They are not just losing either , they are going backwards……..something needs to lighten the load even if it is the merciless end to the season.

  • http://www.prinsportsblog.com BGleas

    Speaking of coddling, you say one negative thing about Hulls and the entire fanbase goes ballistic. Maybe I need to be more clear. I like Hulls and think he'll be a big part of the future here. My point is that a lot of fans overrated how ready he was to come in and contribute right away, similar to how I overrated Rivers. Believe me, I prefer Hulls at point over Rivers, but neither are really suited for the position at this point.

    As far as Watford and Jones, who else is going to score? The reason Watford was forced the ball in the second half yesterday was because we only scored 23 points in the first half and most of the shots were from the perimeter. Going to Watford early in the half wasn't some desire for him to be a star, it was a coaching decision to try and get in the paint and get one of our only guys that can create his own shot the ball.

    Again I like Hulls, I didn't intend this to be a big bash on him. I'm really excited about him for his junior and senior years. But, you talk about Watford and Jones going one-on-one, part of that is that this team has no point guard that can create, which is something Hulls and Rivers should be doing. Hulls gets plenty of ball screens to come off and create, but he simply doesn't have the athletic ability to get by anyone and into the paint. If he could he'd be creating easy shots for people, similar to the behind the back pass vs Wiscy to Pritch that got blocked. That was a great play and something I'm hoping to see more of from Hulls down the line.

  • Wish

    I like your ideas and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

  • Kelin Blab

    Hey maybe this week we will get some good news…Yegeutte and Moses I think are planning on deciding this week……

  • Kreigh_Smiths_Short_Shorts

    I like Elston's game. I would be most disappointed if he left.

  • aceman07

    I've begged all year long to see Elston and Watford on the floor at the same time for extended minutes but sadly, we are not the coach and apparently this is never going to happen! I still think that Hulls, Jones, Watford, Elston, and either Capo/Pritchard give us the best chance to score and the last time I checked, although you don't win without solid defense, the object of the game is to put the round thing in the cylinder! I understand that at this point Hulls, Jones, and Elston aren't the best defenders on the team, in fact they can be defensive liabilities, but they are solid rebounders at their positions and and Watford and Capo/Pritchard would give us a chance to rebound on the defensive glass as well. I hate this Big East 4 guard offensive style especially when it kills us on the glass!

  • Chicksdigthe3

    I am amazed by the only 4 assist as a team and 20 turnovers the Hoosiers had . The turnovers for a young team isn't too bad, but only 4 assists tells me the team struggles finding the open man, there is nobody open to pass to, or their is a hint of late season selfishness.

  • aceman07

    I agree he has lapses and makes mistakes but he also does some good things on defense and on the glass as well! He was the only player in yesterdays game that successfully crashed the offensive glass and basically scored off his own miss yesterday! That possession alone makes up for the one mistake. He had 4 rebounds in 12 minutes!!! I've seen every minute of every game until the last few minutes of last night's game and 4 rebounds in 12 minutes would makes you a 8-10 rebound a game guy if you just play 25-27 min!!! How is that not leaps and bounds above the rest of our bigs? Also, he's had a block in each of the past two games and he at least temporarily slowed down Fuller in the first half yesterday after he got off to a torrid start! I don't see any other big men block shots for IU! A freshman is going to make freshman mistakes! That's why IU stinks so badly in the first place, but how can Elston play 12 minutes coming off a 12 pt, 7 reb, 1 blk game and average a rebound every 3 minutes during that time while JR seems to do nothing but make stupid decisions and turn the ball over, not to mention he's an offensive liability, yet plays 23 minutes???

    What game are IU fans watching? How does he have a negative impact when he probably leads the team in rebounds and points per minute played? If you just take last nights line he played 12 minutes, had 4 rebounds, 1 block, 2 points, and 0 TURNOVERS!!! Even if you count the one offensive rebound he gave up as a turnover, over a 30 minute game (if you stretch the numbers) he would have finished with 5 points, 10 rebounds, 2-3 blocks, 0 turnovers, and one bad block out on a free throw!

    Tell me who we have on the floor down low who is averaging those kind of numbers? Oh, let's see, nobody! How about stretching the 12 points, 7 rebounds, and 1 block with only 2 turnovers against WISC from 18 to 30 minutes? I think I would gladly take a post player scoring 18 points, 11 rebounds, while only turning the ball over 3 times! Even if he misses a couple box out opportunities he still picks up a couple offensive rebounds to make up for it and he plays hard and hustles. You can improve over time on the defensive glass and on defense with some work and experience but you can't replace offense. I'm sorry to vehemently disagree with you but the name of the game is who can put the ball in the basket the most just as much is it is stopping the other team from doing the same. Offense for defense! At this point in the season while we've average less than 50 points for about 10 games, what would you rather see???

  • JerryCT

    You are right on about our Offense:

    #1. We attempt transition offense but you need to get a stop to trigger it, our defense is not good enough to be successful here. Early in the year this is where we got alot of assists

    #2. Secondary offense after transition relies on high ball screen and dribble drive to distort the defense. Rivers is our only “distorter” and Pritchard our only screener. Without them in the game forget about it. Jones is a dribble and shoot player not unlike like Dumes.

    Conclusion: There are few assists available in our current offense and level of play

    IMHO if we went to off ball screens and movement we would see more assists, more different players scoring and Hulls passing skills would be more valuable……….maybe next year

  • James

    Man, just cause IU is struggling cause creek is out u guys just try to blame someone for it… think about if he saw what u guys posting and JR. Hulls i garuntee u gives 10x more effort than ANYONE on that team

  • Hoagland

    I completely agree with the Watford and Jones theory to a point. I even said we need them for sure, but really I was making a preventative point. We needed both of them to shoot and try to score last night, but for next year and moving forward, their attitude is one to watch. You can see Christian and Verdell shut down if they are not getting the ball, and they force shots. It works now because as you said “who else is going to score?” but I know for this team to be successful, it needs to be like any good team and not built up around me first players. VJ3 and Christian will have a lot more, and a lot easier 20 point nights in the future, if they let it come to them and share the ball instead of forcing shots. If either of them starts to think that they are above this team, then we are going to be hurting. Both are good, and I love em, but neither is the type of full talent player to carry a team for a whole season. The sooner they realize that and start being real leaders and getting others involved, the better.

    As for Hulls, I see your point better now, but would still argue that Hulls has some skills that he can't utilize in this system. You are correct he is not going to create on his own off of ball screens by driving and drawing 4 guys to him. What he can/could/will do is find the open guy away from the immediate play when they are open. He's not a John Wall point guard, hes a system point guard. If we had some stuff with off the ball screens and back cuts, youd see his assists go above 5 a game. Thats creation of a different kind, but good, productive creation none the less. Think Tom Coverdale, but less of a fiery drunk, and more of a polite constant motor type of kid. He would find guys that no one else on our team would, and hit them right as they came open.

  • http://www.prinsportsblog.com BGleas

    This is partly my point. Unless I'm misreading what you wrote, why aren't you criticizing Hoagland above for his words on Watford, Jones and Rivers? They're much more harsh than anything I said about Hulls. I'm just saying Hulls wasn't quite ready to contribute yet and has some limitations. I've also said he's a big part of the rebuild, losing him would be tough to recover from and I think by his junior and senior seasons will be a really good player.

    That's a lot less tame than calling JR selfish and saying all Watford and Jones care about is being a Super Star.

  • http://www.prinsportsblog.com BGleas

    You definitely have a point in general about Watford and Jones knowing we should have more options next season, everyone will have to adjust to that. But, I haven't noticed it being a problem this season, or Jones or Watford getting mad because they aren't getting the ball. Maybe I'm missing it, but I haven't noticed that. I don't view them as selfish, I see two guys on an island on offense with very little options to consider. You tend to play differently sometimes when your team has 4 points ten minutes into a half and you know you're the only guy that can get a shot off. They definitely have improvements to make, and I think Watford is a perfect #2 if you know what I mean, hopefully Creek can be the #1 guy.

    I hear you on Hulls too, but regardless of the system, if a point guard can't penetrate off a pick and roll or in general, then he's going to struggle at this level. I think Hulls' game is completely different from Coverdale, but also believe their career ark will probably be similar. He'll definitely excel with experience and more talent around him. He does need to find away to get into the lane and penetrate, whether it's from strength training or experience, he needs to be able to do that IMO.

  • http://www.prinsportsblog.com BGleas

    Also, just to really clear it up for everyone. I like Hulls, I'm glad he's here and don't want him going anywhere. But, not living in Indiana anymore, I had never seen him play and the way some posters on different sites were talking him up, led me to expect a lot more right off the bat than we've seen.

    That's really all I was saying. I probably picked the wrong thread and wrong time to do it. Again, I like Hulls and look forward to his development.

  • JerryCT

    All true on offense but you left out defense and the fact that until Hulls and Jones figure out how to go over the top of screens they will be outplayed by every Iowa team Lickliter coaches and every good screening team we play eg Wisc, NW et al. Only Pritchard does a monster hedge so when he is not playing Hulls/Jones are vulnerable to almost anybody……….this year.

    Coverdale was a very good on ball defender and if Hulls can do that then we have something.

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