Comments on: Looking past Northwestern for just one moment

By: marcusgresham

marcusgresham — Wed, 10 Feb 2010 21:36:05 +0000

I love Jones' offense, and defense will come with strength (I hope!) if he can put on a few pounds. Rivers HAS to develop a shot. This would eliminate a ton of his turnovers, I think, because a lot of times he dribbles into trouble or tries to make a pass he shouldn't because he has not confidence in putting the ball in the basket from outside of 6 feet.
It would be nice, (and this may happen, I don't live in Bloomington, so I don't know,) if a lot of the old players come back for the summer and pound these guys in pick-up games. I know if VJ3 or Creek spent the summer trying to stop Eric Gordon, Demitri McCamey wouldn't look so tough when the season rolled around. Bawa–who isn't a big stiff & I think has athletic ability if he can gain a better understanding of what he needs to do (and the other big guys) could learn so much from a guy like Kent Benson (not that I think he's going to be in any pick-up games with these guys at his age–no offense, Kent, if you're reading this!) Even someone like AJ Moye could teach some things about defending guys who are bigger than you, effort, taking one for the team… The problem is there probably isn't a lot of recent talent willing to help thanks to the purging brought on by Sampson.
As far as Matt_J said about post-season next year, I don't think you're drinking Kool-Aid at all. I thought there was shot at it this year. I would think loses to the likes of GMU, Boston U., Loyola, that we saw at the beginning of this year shouldn't occur next season, and a few more conference wins should put the team in the range of say 16-14 (maybe a game or two better.) I know it's not the 25-5 we'd like to see, but it's a 10 game improvement in 2 years, which I think a lot of people lose sight of in terms of being true progress.
I also think if either of the new guys next year can play defense about as well as Dumes it's a vast improvement because I wouldn't expect either of them to chuck up 26-footers when they have the ball.
There is a light at the end of the tunnel—let's just hope it isn't that friggin' train on the Purdue logo.

By: MillaRed

MillaRed — Wed, 10 Feb 2010 02:23:46 +0000

I'll do my best Jerry, but it may be difficult.

These fans are all nice up here, they have a cool coach and will win by 20.

Still yet, on behalf of all ITH readers, I will do a cart wheel every time we hit a 3 pointer. I'll be lucky to do 4.

Go Hoosiers!

By: JerryCT

JerryCT — Wed, 10 Feb 2010 01:41:20 +0000

The only thing separating Jones from All American or All B10 is his defense, same might be true of Creek someday.

Unlike offensive skills , you cannot practice defense alone or even with 2 guys , it takes 3 because somebody has to be the screener. Making this comittment to improved defense is what we need most………and …….since it fuels the transition offense I think it fits our craving for fun.

I would certainly look for you at the game but I am leaving in a hour for Brazil and I doubt I will get the game. Hopefully we win, you piss them off good, and only get one black eye and lose a tooth that was loose anyway

By: MillaRed

MillaRed — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 22:53:45 +0000

I understand your defensive desire Jerry but isn't this really the norm for college hoops these days? Where does the 2010 Kentucky, Kansas, Texas etc. teams match-up defensively compared to top teams over the last 20 years?

Sure we can get better, but it sounds like you are asking for a combination of VIII offensively and Rivers defensively. I think what you have there is a 1st team all-american. They just aren't out there.

I'm not disagreeing and have another point. I am up here in Badgerland (look for me at game on the 13th. The only guy with an IU hat I'm sure and I'll chime ITH with a report).

UW is a great defensive team. They are always challenging for a Big Ten trophy these days and are extremely well coached. You know what else?

B-O-R-I-N-G.

It's like watching the Baltimore Ravens when they won the SuperBowl. Hold the ball, defense, hold the ball, defense. The problem is, these guys never go anywhere in the tournament. And yes they had a flukish Final Four run under Dick Bennett but the history is this style of play doesn't go deep and I don't want that brand of basketball at IU.

I think we're better off focusing on team defense and that will get better with experience.

By: JerryCT

JerryCT — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 20:09:46 +0000

IMO we have alot of offensive skills on the team and they could get even better. Unfortunately the transition game requires tough defense to be efficient……..especially on the perimeter . If I could wish for one thing it would be for Jones, Hulls, Creek, Roth,.etc to work on defensive skills.

I recognize defense is the most difficult to learn, partly becasue it is no fun to practice it, difficult to practice it and the ordinary fans does not appreciate it. It is still the key however.

Next game let us see how many times Jones can go over a screen, under a screen or through a screen and not require a monster hedge from Pritchard

By: MillaRed

MillaRed — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 19:45:31 +0000

If we could somehow pull in a top FR or JUCO I think we could contend for a top 3 Big Ten finish. Preferrably a big. But I'm not sure it's going to happen.

I love the idea of VIII and Creek playing together as long as they figure each other out. When Creek was lighting it up Verdell was taking a back seat. We need both to be equally productive.

Rivers improvement in his decision making will be a key. I personally am concerned over the possibility. If the old TP comes to play even better.

I agree, things are settling into place. The subtraction of Dumes and Jobe are additions by subtraction. And if the incoming class can help even better. Very good timing on your post.

Lastly, can ITH send a 300 volt shock to the keyboard of anyone that posts an unfounded transfer suggestion? It truly is the worst rumor you could possibly spread and the last thing any of us want to hear!

By: JerryCT

JerryCT — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 19:15:34 +0000

Here is a clue. Watch our defense not the other teams offense. It expalins:

1. Why Rivers needs to play many minutes.

2. Why Jones needs to sit down ( see first 6 possessions by IL in 2nd half )

3. Why Hulls does not help , in fact, Moore proved this against NW that he is better

4. Why Watford gives way to Pritchard on Hummel

5. Why Dumes plays at all

6. Why Ole Miss killed Creek

7. Why our transition offense gets stuck in neutral

By: ldiu

ldiu — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 18:34:38 +0000

I agree with almost all you say EXCEPT for Rivers at point guard. His turnover ratio and total lack of offense is just plain pitiful. His play just makes me sick at times. Hulls should play more minutes next year. I just hope that none of these key players transfer. I still struggle with the substitution pattern of CTC: a player will play 3-5 minutes and then taken out for no reason that I can see. Why?? He surely cannot be tired.

By: JerryCT

JerryCT — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 18:33:59 +0000

Agreed . I actually was NOT advocating a lineup but only pointing out that unless Jones et al improve on defense we have to limit our optimism about next year…………unless of course we change offensive schemes that donot rely so much on stops. A good perennial example is UCONN.

By: BGleas

BGleas — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 07:29:03 +0000

All I'm going to say is, love this post! Great job.

By: BaseballBuc

BaseballBuc — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 06:18:48 +0000

I think I speak for all IU fans out there when I say that we have some major work to do to be a force in the big 10 in coming years. It starts with the little things.

Our bigs really need some work with their ball handling in the post. Too many times Elston, Capo, Watford, can't handle the post pass or they try to dribble to get to the rim and get stripped.

Also, our guards need to do a better job of making the extra pass. There were a lot of possessions vs. Northwestern where Hulls was standing wide open in the corner and he never touched the ball.

Tom Crean has always preached moving with the pass. Once again vs Northwestern they couldn't do it and were a second late closing to the shooters.

Lastly, I hope we can use more of the 4 guard lineups as long as our guards rebound. The key word being guard rebounds. By looking at the recruiting pattern and his teams at Marquette, I believe Crean is moving in this direction. Thats why he needs the big guards. I think it resembles a lot of what Villanova is doing and has done in the past.

By: psvirsky

psvirsky — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 05:38:29 +0000

Nice comparison. Of course, Prince gets to the NBA b/c he also happens to be 6'9. It seems like for this kind of player to succeed, he needs to be able to play down a position in terms of height (so he doesn't get pushed around). So although Prince has the height of a 4, he's better off at the 3, where his length is a significant advantage. For VJIII, at 6'5, he probably wouldn't make it in the NBA unless he puts on weight or learns to play PG. Not that it takes away from what he can do for us.

By: rusty95

rusty95 — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 04:24:28 +0000

(especially skinny frail guys like him)

I remember someone who I thought the exact same thing about, Teyshaun Prince, look how much he improved from feshman year to now. VJ reminds me alot of Prince. Nice, smooth, soft lookin guy, and at the end of the night your mvp.

By: Taskmaster75

Taskmaster75 — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 03:46:26 +0000

If you want even more optimism, look at 2 years from now when our upperclassmen are fully developed and Bawa and post buddies can actually give meaningful minutes.

/drool

By: Luke72

Luke72 — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 03:34:13 +0000

Think Jones has even better days coming. Unless we establish a inside game all his heroics might keep us in a few games but under .500 winning average. I do not know of any team that has ever been a top program with one inside player. Watford will be very good. No help on the way either. Get used to the bottom half of the Big Ten. Really hope I'm wrong about this!

By: floridahoosier

floridahoosier — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 03:03:14 +0000

No offense but let's say we go with your philosophy and we have Rivers, Dumes, Capo, Pritchard, and the next best transition defender on the floor where does our offense come from? And to be honest McCamey still tore up rivers and dumes (maybe not always in points but their d definitely did not slow him down in assits, rebounds). My point is this. I like Dumes and his ability to play defense. But for every great hustle play or steal he makes you can bank on an errant pass, a terrible shot selection, or a turnover like a travel. Rivers as in the Purdue game gets to the rim and then instead of making a textbook layup tries to make a wild up and under reverse and it goes into the bottom of the rim. He also has a knack for dribbling to far under and getting lost leading to turnovers. IMO the players you mentioned excellent defense (and I am not denying that they play great defense) is negated by horrible decision making on the offensive end. And as good as defenders as they are none of them are so good that them being in the game would make any difference against a solid one two punch in the big ten

By: plane1972

plane1972 — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 03:00:48 +0000

I'm very happy with the development of VJ3. That blow he sustained at midcourt last season was unfortunate, but does not seem to have set him back. I only hope his vocal leadership is being done with maturity. There are times when I see a lot of sniping on the court, particularly from VJ and Watford. VJ's taking on a pretty hefty leadership role fairly early. Just hope it's not too much, too soon. Somebody's gotta do it, I guess.

By: JerryCT

JerryCT — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 02:42:45 +0000

I agree about the team and the work needed. I always said I thought Jones could be the next Devin Harris. Some folks scoffed at this.

I think Crean has been impressive in the last several games. He changed the rotation and offensive sets to accommodate it. He knows to play Moore, Dumes, Capo in the right situations. They put out alot of effort and do not quit.

Transition offense starts with defense and right now however we have only 3 1/2 players that can strongly support a transition offense by their defensively play , Pritchard, Rivers, Dumes and 1/2 Capo. Jones is the worst defender followed by Elston, Watford and Hulls. Creek was not a great defender either.

As a result when a team has more than one back court player to defend eg McCamey and Richardson , we will have trouble on both ends of the floor. OSU presents that problem in a big big way

By: Matt_J

Matt_J — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 02:21:13 +0000

Maybe I'm drinking some of the Crean and Crimson Kool-Aid, but I am beginning to expect this team to make some sort of post-season tournament next year. With or without tournament expansion, you can usually get into a post-season tournament with an above .500 record, and things are beginning to look like this team could actually get to a .500 or better record next year.

Maybe I'm overly optimistic, maybe I'm looking at the program through rose-colored (or crimson-colored) glasses, but I do think that this is a team that could be post-season bound next year.

By: psvirsky

psvirsky — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 02:14:58 +0000

Thank you for this, it definitely helps. VJIII has really been a joy to watch, especially lately. His improvement throughout his career has been surprising and really great to witness as a fan. Last year he made a significant improvement as the year went on too. Normally you think the younger guys are going to hit a wall at some point (especially skinny frail guys like him), but he's just continued to get better. And he has real courage to step up at the end of games.

It was funny when he came in and wanted to give himself the nickname of Indiana Jones, but he is really starting to earn the right to nickname himself.