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Good, Bad and Ugly: Michigan

by in Good Bad Ugly | January 14th, 2010

Yes, that byline is correct. Ryan’s got the night off, so I’m taking the reigns on tonight’s GBU. Now, onward …

THE GOOD: IU WAS IN THE GAME, FOR 35 MINUTES.

For as much as Indiana struggled, and boy did they ever, the Hoosiers were in a conference road game with under six minutes to play. This, if my memory serves me correctly, was not the case last week in Columbus against Ohio State. Had you not watched the game and only looked at the final score, you would be shocked to learn Indiana was down just 48-43 at the 5:54 mark.

In a season that’s clearly headed in the direction of more losses than wins, progress must be measured in baby steps. And tonight, if Tom Crean and company need something to hang their hat on, it’s that they competed on the road for 35 minutes, as ugly as it was.

Also deserving of a mention in this space: Christian Watford. The freshman forward came to play and led IU in scoring with 16 points and also pulled down eight rebounds. Watford has a long way to go, but he continues to show flashes of talent that could make him an all-conference type of player down the road.

THE BAD AND UGLY: COHESION ON OFFENSIVE/SCORELESS STRETCHES, 3-POINT SHOOTING, TURNOVERS.

For as awful as Michigan played in the opening 20 minutes, Indiana was equally dreadful. Consider these facts: The Hoosiers had a scoreless stretch of five minutes and 13 seconds. Their first free throw was not attempted until the 6:50 mark. And they missed eight of nine 3-point attempts. (This did not improve in the second half as the Hoosiers missed all six attempts from behind the arc.) But none of these numbers are going to win games in the Big Ten, especially on the road.

But beyond the poor output on offense, even more concerning was the difficultly in which IU struggled to find any cohesion in its half court offense. IU scored just two points — two! — in the final 6:32. A night like tonight magnified how much this team lacks a player that can create offense. Maurice Creek was developing into that guy, but with his injury, the Hoosiers are now struggling to find that go-to-guy.

Turnovers. 19 of them. Most of the unforced variety. It’s a little bit easier to understand turnovers from the guard position, but a combined nine turnovers from Watford, Tom Pritchard and Derek Elston is head scratching. Elston, the recent subject of a playing time debate amongst fans, had three turnovers in just 10 minutes. And Pritchard, who had a couple of nice moves in the post but committed three turnovers as well, only saw 21 minutes due to foul trouble (and failed to record a rebound).

Finally, free throws continue to be a problem. Although IU only got to the line 12 times, they missed half of their attempts. The bottom line is that with their small margin for error, this is an area in which the Hoosiers must improve if they hope to win more than two or three conference games.

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  • valpohistory

    I picked up this little tidbit from another blog called the Hoosier Scoop. I burst out laughing because it makes a mockery of all of the close mindedness of some Indiana fans:

    That was about the ugliest first half I’ve seen in a long time. And it was all Crean’s fault. He only scored 21 points, the lowest he’s scored since putting up only 20 in the first half against Ohio State. In addition. Crean went 1-9 from 3 point territory, and Crean hit only 2 out of 5 free throws. On the positive side, he did score 8 points through Watford, and through Capobianco, Crean pulled down 3 boards.

    He really needs to work on what he does when he is inside Rivers, though. As Rivers, Crean continued to flail around and turn the ball over. At one point, as Crean/Rivers drove the ball, looking for Watford, he threw it to him before he had even set up, and the ball went out of bounds.

    I am holding Crean accountable for the second half, and I expect him to improve his free throw shooting, 3 point accuracy, and rebounding. What is more, Crean can’t afford to turn the ball over. It is only Michigan coach Belein’s sloppy ball handling that is keeping Crean in this game.

  • JerryCT

    The GOOD: Watford's effort

    the BAD: Our pathetic offensive scheme and AGAIN Hulls/Moore w 40 min and Dumes w 13

    The Ugly: The Michigan fan with the hardhat

    Crean insists on 40min from Hulls and Moore and less than 15 from Dumes but is expecting a different result…………..insanity

  • Guest

    You know every game I read the Good, bad, and ugly, and every game you call for the combination of Moore/Hulls out and Dumes in. I agree hulls and moore do not need 40 minutes a game especially Moore, but having said that I have watched every game, including attending a few and Dumes has looked lost all season. I was no collegiate basketball player but I played for a very competitive high school in Northern Indiana and we can talk about confidence and all this bull but if you don’t produce when you get the chance why play you. And let’s face it, the only game Dumes ever got it going when he got his chance so far is the first Michigan game. And when he was in the game last night he just got lost on offense. And yes he is a good on the ball defender but as far as a team defensive scheme he does not add so much that it makes up for a truly non existent offensive output to this point in the season. My point is the hulls/moore combo isn’t ideal now but they have 6 more years between them and since dumes doesn’t create a game changing presence why not let the young kids grow and learn by playing through the obsticles rather waste our time on a senior who is only there because of the Kelvin Sampson fiasco. This is not a knock on Dumes but the fact is he is a senior on a team that with him in the game doesn’t get THAT much better anyway so let’s develop the youth. Besides I have a strange feeling that this to is a situation caused from practice where Crean sees something (or lack there of) from Dumes which isn’t influencing him to give Dumes too many minutes.

  • http://www.prinsportsblog.com BGleas

    IMO it's not young or inexperience, it's a flat lack of talent. That's where next year's class, to this point, kills IU. The '09 class can't do it by itself, there needs to be a continuation of that talent in 2-3 classes before we'll see any consistency or a huge leap.

  • marsh21

    Funny blog post for sure. Overall its just very frustrating when we see IU in this spot. I think everyone was thinking this year would be much better but based upon last nights results it won't be. They are making a lot of basic errors but much of that is based upon lack of talent. However, I will say it doesn't appear Crean coaches fundamentals or if he does the players are not paying attention. IU is two more years away at least from a winning record.

  • ldiu

    Even before the final 6 minutes, this was just an ugly performance. Rivers continues to throw up brick after brick, but I don't know who else to play. Just DON'T let him shoot the ball. As for Elston, I think the kid is so stressed (due to lack of playing time) that he feels he must do too much in the limited time alloted. I'd like (for once) to see him play out on the floor and play 30 minutes without fear of being pulled after only a 3-4 minute rotation. He can handle the ball and has a wonderful outside shoot.

  • MikeinNC

    With no credible interior threat on offense, opposing defenses can overplay on the perimeter to put even more pressure on the 3. Since we have no presence on the offensive boards, we live and die by how well we can shoot 3 point shots under heavy pressure. That is going to make for an up and down year.

  • MikeinNC

    I expected them to still struggle this year, but I was hoping they would be fundamentally sound and play hard-nosed and intense for the entire game.

  • JerryCT

    The GOOD: Watford's effort

    the BAD: Our pathetic offensive scheme and AGAIN Hulls/Moore w 40 min and Dumes w 13

    The Ugly: The Michigan fan with the hardhat

    Crean insists on 40min from Hulls and Moore and less than 15 from Dumes but is expecting a different result…………..insanity

  • Druid

    Another example of an exorcise in futility. Last nights game was very painful to watch. It is like our team is a bunch of children who get scared being away from home. They need to grow up and toughen up. Until we do we will be repeating this same result time and again this year. I miss the old days when we were competitive every game no matter who we played. Last nights game was far from being competitive. Our guards gave our only bright spot Watford no help at all. I don't understand why can't these kids understand some simple basics you do in basketball. These aren't hard and even third graders understand this and yet we seem to simply not do them. The excuse we are young just doesn't cut it. Why can't we learn to box out and rebound? Why do our bigs just stand there flat footed? I am so frustrated by this team I can't hardly watch them play. They look like a bunch of high school freshmen running wild on the court. And once again, we need to play Elston more. He at least plays with some fire in his eyes. We looked like we either didn't care or we're completely unprepared for this game. Why is it we can't seem to make adjustments at half time like other teams do? I'm getting sick of the excuses and lack of effort. When you have as many turnovers as field goals, something is bad wrong.

  • aceman07

    I agree that Dumes should be on the court more because he puts out maximum effort on the defensive end and isn't taking stupid shots right now. I agree that there is not one single good reason for Moore to ever be on the floor at this level, but I disagree with a few of you who want to bench Hulls. He needs to play as does Elston, Capo, Watford, and even Bawa because developing our young players should be objective number one. We're not going to win anything, nor do I think that any of us were stupid enough to expect a post season birth of any kind, so let's develop the young talent. Everyone saw the move by Hulls to the basket last night proving that he can get to the rim if he wants to but he chooses to play controlled and as a pure point guard. He gives good minutes and should be on the floor. I don't understand why Elston and Watford CAN'T be on the floor at the same time. It doesn't create any more of a matchup problem than having TP in there so why can't we put two (count 'em – two!!!) offensive threats at the 4 and 5 positions on the floor at the same time??? I looked at my wife last night when we were down 5 late in the game and said, “Well, it's just about time for IU to fold and let Michigan pull away”. In the next 45 seconds were down 9 and it was all down hill from there. I do think watching them that they wear out late in games because all the sudden their defensive intensity looks like it fades and teams just get to the rim against us for repeated layups and offensive rebounds. Even though we're young, at this point in the season shouldn't we be better conditioned and dare I say it again, a little tougher???

  • IU freshman

    You can’t sit here and tell me that all of the teams in the big ten outside of iowa will have more talent than us next year! We will have just as much talent as Minnesota, Michigan, Penn State, Wisconsin, Northwestern, and Illinois next season. I am a die hard cubs fan so I understand your dooms day outlook but come on we are very young and we have shown bright flashes! So everyone just calm down! please

  • http://www.prinsportsblog.com BGleas

    I honestly don't think this has anything to do with toughness, playing hard or any of that. I was actually pretty impressed with how the team came back from several Michigan runs throughout the game. There were several times Mich pushed it to 9 or 11 and we came back, where as last years team would have had the door blown off much sooner.

    The bottom line is we're just not that good. This is not a good and/or talented team. Especially with Creek and Roth out, IU has zero post presence, zero legitimate three point threats and no real reliable point guard. You can't win with that, you just can't.

  • RMULLINS

    You are so right ! We may get a little better NEXT YEAR but I don't see any one coming in who is going to save us in the near future. This is very painful to watch. God help us!

  • Kelin Blab

    This was a painful game to watch from beginning to end. It was a winable game but a game that could turn out how it did, with an OK michigan team.

    GOOD
    + Wateford working down low and outside. Despite his slight of build he doesn't mind mixing it up. Just needs to board it more.
    + Bobby C playing some solid defense in the post and being in good position
    + Hulls confidence continues to grow and knows when to pick his spots for shots, penetration etc.
    + I still like Daniel Moore on the floor at times cause he, this year, doesn't hurt you that much. Call me crazy but I cannot pin point where he has been a hinderance a ton this year.

    The Bad
    + Sloppy play
    + Elston's turnovers. I love Elston, I think he should play more but, out of Pritchard, Bobby C, and Elston, I can honestly say he is not playing that much better…especially when I have seen him be an absolutely beast.

    The Ugly
    + When you are our best player (VJ3) or the one with the most complete game, you have to bring it every night. Verdell IS and SHOULD be that guy. He must must must bring it every night, which I know he can do.

  • kentuckyhoosier

    ok , i tell ya , im flat out dissapointed and fed up . i know rebuilding , young , and inexpirerenced . but at the same time this was a good class of players that should at least be able to handle fundementals . not to mention that our progressed has all but stopped if not regressed compared to other programs.and to top it all off THERE IS NOTHING EXCITING ABOUT NEXT YEARS RECRUITS . is this all that crean has ?????????

  • MillaRed

    And by the way, I'm 5' 11 and 3/4″ with a 6 inch verticle. But I can drain the 3!

  • iulineman

    I agree never before this year have i turned off the game am really disappointed don't think other teams fans have a true understanding of what we've had to deal with these last few years it is actually painful to watch at times and for the first time can honestly say im not that hopeful about the future sorry to be so negative will always bleed crimson and CREAM

  • Kreigh_Smiths_Short_Shorts

    This year IS much better. They are way more competitive than last year. And next year will be better still. But for anyone who thought that the addition of the great recruiting class would lead to…excellence, or anything more than what we've been seeing, they're delusional. I understand the high expectations everyone has. It's Indiana! But we all need to be realistic. Crean does coach fundamentals. The players just don't always execute that way. A product of their relative inexperience.

  • IUDan

    I dunno . . . I think this is pretty much what I expected. Freshmen are freshmen, especially when there is a major void of upperclass leadership. perhaps expectations have been blown out of proportion by seeing Bledsoe, Wall, Cousins & Co to the south, but remember that the bulk of this group was playing high school ball at this time last year. They will make mistakes, they will “hit the wall”, they will look lost at times.

    It's simply unrealistic to compare ourselves to other programs at this point. We are really in Year 1 right now – no disrespect to the kids from last year, but we have very little to build on from there (and the kids we do have are playing different roles to some degree).

    I think last night's game really exposed what a big problem losing Creek was – he was a guy who could get his own shot, play inside and out, and play defense.

    In some respects you're right – we are who we are – it's very unlikely we'll have a major difference-maker come in next year. That being said, I think we can realistically expect good progress from all the freshmen over the summer – watching other teams it seems like that's where players seem to make the most progress. This time next year I think we'll have a much better indication of what we have and what we can be.

    Not excuses, just reality.

  • cooper

    Does anyone have a problem with Crean's comment that IU played a very very strong game until the end when they got rattled.

    I'm not sure what game he watched but I didn't see much strong play at all

  • Taskmaster75

    I do have to contest Bobby's D. Simms just lit him up in the first half, and already had more points than Indiana did halfway through the first half. I guess he is a good practice guy, but I want Elston starting. He seems like the best post presence we have. (Pritchard would be, but the refs seem to want to call everything on him, although, he does hack a bit)

    Verdell was just cold, he tried to heat up, but it just didn't happen.

  • cooper

    Good:
    -Watford continues to play pretty well for a freshman
    -Capo played pretty well on D
    -Rivers shooting jumpers (he is going to have to hit a jumper from the foul line so he may as well practice them this year in the games)
    -Pritchard on D, I've decided to somewhat change my tune on him. I think he is a guy you just let go play until he fouls out or gets it. When he picks up fouls and comes out he loses all confidence, so just leave him in. If he fouls out who cares we have others behind him
    -Rivers drive the 1st play of game, I think it was the last time we saw someone drive to the hoop

    Bad:
    -VJ laid an egg this game, which is going to happen with a sophmore sometimes
    -Crean having Hulls guard Novak, who is 6inches taller. Hulls didn't have a prayer boxing him out
    -Watford doesn't go strong enough to the hoop
    -Capo apparently he can shoot threes, someone tell him to at least look like a threat when wide open
    -Setting picks, I've never seen a team commit more fouls setting picks
    - in a game where there is no offense how about we see the PRESS try to create some buckets
    - Our dribble drive is brutal. Once the guy starts driving the rest of the guys just stand there waiting for a pass that very nearly always gets tipped or picked off. When a guy drives to the bucket, MOVE to an open spot instead of standing there

    Ugly
    -Rivers jump shot. How with a year off did Crean or another coach not teach him his off hand needs to move? this is the coaches fault as much as Rivers. In HS he probably got by just driving to the lane, at GU he was a D specialist so his shot never needed to change. It does now
    -Elston has lost all confidence as evidence by his airball free throw
    -Moore on the court. I'll say it again, I'd rather have Maya Moore from UCONN than him
    -No adjustments
    -Big 10 basketball is almost unwatchable. If I'm 18 and a star recruit I'd have a tough time going to a B10 school and playing that slow plodding game. Even when the teams don't want to play that way it still comes across that way
    -continue making stupid fouls
    -Driving to the baseline. VJ, Moore, and the big guys love getting the ball on the baseline and getting trapped.

  • MillaRed

    Many people ITH get all worked up when bloggers criticize Crean. First of all, that's what blogs are for. We come here to express opinions and no one in the program, from Tijan to Glass are untouchable. Keep in mind we buy the tickets and merchandise. Without us there is no program.

    Just because we criticize CTC does not mean we are asking for a dismissal. The vast majority of ITH followers seem to have a high basketball IQ. With that being said, what offense are we running again? How do you feel about CTC with the officials? It looks like a cakewalk for me. When they called TP for that foul after the 3-point attempt I was begging for Coach to lose his friggin mind. Moore getting time over Dumes? And we are qualifying this? That's embarrassing people.

    For 1 1/2 seasons, I have not seen major improvements on team fundamentals. Our upperclassmen seem to be worse than the freshmen in this regard. It is…….concerning. What did the team improve on last night? We need to stop making excuses for this team. It's really, really bad and isn't getting better.

    Over the last 3 seasons, our fans have been MORE than patient. All we are looking for is improvement. And sorry I just don't see it. At this rate we aren't even close to being a tournament team until 2012, and that's with a major addition to the program.

    This is all of course, in my humble opinion.

  • hoosierboy

    As Lav said last night. We just don't have the firepower to compete. Hopefully no recruits watched that game. I don't care what anyone says, Watford isn't that athletic. He's aggressive and lanky but the guy has no boost or quick explosion to his game. He is constantly being contested down low by much shorter defenders. Im just bein hard on him because I know he can be great. He needs I mean MUST stop jackin up 3's. The well is just flat out dry in B'Town. We need more talent and in a hurry. The best quote I've heard lately is, “Im a great coach when I have talent.” Bobby Huggins.

  • Kelin Blab

    Gleas….I don't think it is a lack of talent. Lets not forget this was a top 10 or higher recruiting class last year. Some games it is inexperience or youth, other games it is execution. Sometimes it is both…..

    I also would not underestimate our current incoming 2010 guys. We absolutely can use more athleticism on the wings with guys built like Creek but better athletes…long and active. Not to mention some strong rebounding wings like VO and SHeehey are.

  • HoosierSmitty

    That was miserable. For the first time in my life of watching IU play, I just turned it off and said screw it with about 5 minutes left. How are you within two baskets with 5 or 6 minutes to play and then lose by 25? Laughable…

    I'm not expecting a win, just not that debacle.

  • cooper

    I agree with you. The talent isn't there yet. IU has a lot of good part players but only two players who can be complete players and they are freshman (Watford and Creek). A highly ranked class means nothing unless it produces which this class may. All I know about next years class is Oladipo plays for a great team but is probably their 3rd best player. Seems much more defensive minded similar to a Rivers in a SF body. Sheehy may be good but South FL basketball is not a hotbed of talent so we have no idea how it will transfer. Living in FL I know this 1st hand. The top 10 athletes at almost every school focus on football

  • http://www.prinsportsblog.com BGleas

    I hear you Kelin, but the best player of that class is out for the year, and 6 players does not make a team. The rest of the classes on the team would all be considered disappointing under normal circumstances. I think it's a fact that, outside of Iowa, we don't have the talent the other Big Ten teams do. I'm suggesting we should either, I understand the situation Crean inherited.

    My opinion here is actually a defense of Crean, because I think people need to lay-off some of the criticism of his coaching this season, as he's not playing with nearly a full deck.

    It's not so much that I underestimate the '10 class, I think they'll be solid contributors, but we're in need of a few more difference makers of the Creek/Watford level and it's just not there yet. I don't mean this as an indictment on Crean, I fully understand the recruiting situation he's been put in by the mess he inherited.

  • http://www.prinsportsblog.com BGleas

    To me, it's not that people can't criticize Crean, but it's the people that blame him after every loss that annoy me. IMO we're not losing games because we're suddenly finding out Crean is a bad in-game coach, how can we properly judge his in-game coaching when he's coaching a team that is IMO severely lacking in talent compared to its competition?

    I have complaints too, frankly I think our in-bounds plays are horrible, but at the same time I realize maybe he's being conservative since he knows he doesn't have the talent. He's not coaching with a full deck. He's had ONE real recruiting class.

  • Kelin Blab

    Gleas hopefully ever fan can see what you are saying and what Crean is dealing with. I have no problems criticizing Crean but this is a 5 year project where we may have to go the Purdue route. Stock up on 3-4 year guys, go for the one and done kids but don't bank on them and just build a consistent winner and a foundation. I have conceded the fact the way basketball is today in the high schools and aau, one and done's don't want to rebuild. We need impact (creek) like players. I have no faith in us landing Selby, Teague, or that type of player, so I am just not going to even get too excited about those guys…..

  • MillaRed

    Personally I could care less if we lose every game as long as I see improvement. Not sure if people are really blaming Crean. We all know the situation. (factor in frustration on our part) But seriously Gleas at times I wonder if he's helping out there or not?

    Of course we're lacking talent but what does that have to do with your 4th year junior throwing the ball to Nantucket without pressure? Free throws? Getting Daniel Moore better minutes than Dumes and Elston? R-u-n-n-i-n-g a set play for crying out loud! I'm not throwing the guy under a bus but I'm without question scratching my head on occasion.

    If we're going to lose anyway, why be conservative? I'm not dissagreeing with you Gleas and I realize we are splitting hairs here. But I've been around the game long enough to see what is happening on the court. So far I give the big guy a C. Talent or no talent.

  • http://www.prinsportsblog.com BGleas

    You're right, we're not really disagreeing. I can totally accept criticism that Dumes and Elston should be playing more. I agree with that criticism. Crean definitely isn't above criticism.

    As many have said, this is really year 1 of the rebuild, last year was the punishment. As you bring perspective from your background, I'm going to bring some from mine :)

    I've mentioned before, but I played DII basketball. I played on some good teams and I played on some really bad teams, even a 7 win team that I started for as a freshmen that also had 10 sophomores (similar to the IU youth). For some background, I was one of those guys that was never on the floor because of athleticism. I was on the floor because I played smarter and harder than anyone else out there. I knew all the situations, I could shoot and I rarely turned the ball over. It didn't hurt being a 6'6″ shooting guard :)

    But in the years where we were bad, when we played extremely talented and athletic teams, I would be overwhelmed just as much as the next guy. I would turn the ball over because it was just harder to get open and the passing lanes were smaller. My shot would be off because you don't have as much time to get it off. Our entire offense would struggle. Our team just didn't have the talent and athleticism that year.

    My point is, when you just don't have the talent, it's really easy for a team to get overwhelmed and it can get away from you quickly, especially on the road. There was very little in-game that our coach could do about it, beside bring in better players.

    I don't know if I even have a point, maybe just bringing some perspective from a different angle, as even though I was not near IU's level, I can kind of relate to the situation.

  • aceman07

    You can't tell me it's the lack of talent that causes wide open layups and repeated offensive rebounds down the stretch of every game. I was watching specifically for the breakdown last night and counted 6 of 8 Michigan trips in the final 5 and a half minutes where we gave up a layup or dunk via dribble drive or offensive rebound. A couple of them were just plain blow-bys where no one even attempted to rotate over. One of two things causes that (because a team full of the worst athletes ever could avoid that)! It's either we wear down because we are young and can't sustain the energy level for 40 minutes or we freeze up and piss down our legs when we look up at the scoreboard and see that we may actually win. You can't tell me that Boston U is that much more athletic than us . . . and that fading hasn't improved hardly at all since then!

  • JerryCT

    I reject the lack of talent excuse. We have more 4 star players than Pitt. Which team is improving ……us or them ? Not only is Pitt improving they are ranked in the top 20. I don't see us beating UCONN at UCONN anytime soon.

    To me the offensive scheme is too predictable. I don't think I have seen a weave work against a good team in years and we saw how easy it was for UM to turn us over on it.

    Do you think we might see an off ball screen at least once this year to shake loose our best player Watford for a score ?

    Hulls and Moore donot hurt us in small doses. I do not criticize their play alot just their allocation of minutes. Alot of our offense comes off the defense. As such, when Dumes and Rivers are not defending side by side we lose offense for everybody. Dumes also does not stand outside and pound the ball into the floor for 8 seconds.

    Example: In one 10 second segment last night DUmes doubled Sims and forced him into a shaky pass to Harris who then was thwarted immediately by Dumes as well. What about Dumes pushing Sims too far under the basket at the end of the half to stop those points. The list of plays is pretty long actually for 13 minutes of action

    It is often said that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

  • MillaRed

    I was an all-conference performer in High School, played DI ball at Indiana State, and was drafted in the second round in 1995 by the Houston Rockets. And I did all of this on my son's PlayStation 3. Eat that Mr. Gleas!

    Just kidding buddy. All I will add here is there has been mention of the 1 year of recruiting, the plan etc etc. But until I see the Real Deal top 10 recruit that can help the others take it to the next level, I don't see Sweet 16s in the next 4 years.

    Would you not agree the next 4 recruits are on par with the current talent? If not less talented? Call me pessimistic I guess.

  • MillaRed

    And by the way, I'm 5' 11 and 3/4″ with a 6 inch verticle. But I can drain the 3!

  • iulineman

    I agree never before this year have i turned off the game am really disappointed don't think other teams fans have a true understanding of what we've had to deal with these last few years it is actually painful to watch at times and for the first time can honestly say im not that hopeful about the future sorry to be so negative will always bleed crimson and CREAM

  • http://www.prinsportsblog.com BGleas

    LOL, I can definitely have a sense of humor and laugh at myself :)

    I agree with all you said there. IMO the most place Crean deserves criticism at this point is for the current state of the '10 and '11 classes. If he fails at IU, it's not going to be because of X's and O's, it will be because he couldn't back up the '09 class in '10 and '11.

  • http://www.prinsportsblog.com BGleas

    I wish my vertical was 6 inches! Why do you think I played DII as a 6'6″ shooting guard :)

  • hoosierbd

    Here is my Bad, Ugly & other observations: Watford played well last night, but I believe that's a relative comment compared to the play of everyone else. I see the upside potential of Watford, but he plays small for a 6'9″ guy – he doesn't appear to be a great leaper (see more lay-ups than dunks). Speaking of the big men – how many traditional post-up points have been scored this year – dump inside, move, score? IU is easy to guard when there is no worry of a post-up player scoring inside.

    Unforced turnovers are about to kill me – especially by Rivers and the big guys. I hear commentators say Rivers is a first year player with IU – true but he is in his 4th year of college basketball – he is actually a senior and plays many times like a freshmen. For all his athletic talent, I don't feel he's contributing as much as he should (The ugly: any shot Rivers takes except a dunk).

    Hulls to me seems more suited for a smaller D1 school – he can't penetrate off the dribble, he can't slash, not a great jumper, ok defender, and looks small compared to other PG's in the Big Ten. But he's an Indiana kid and I'm glad to have him – just want to see signs of improvement and that he has raw skills to be a great Big Ten PG.

    I had forgotten about Roth a few games ago, but seeing him on bench in walking boot the other night reminded me that without him and Creek we have lost 2 of our first 5 guards in the line-up. So anyone having a bad night simply has to play through it.

  • cooper

    The only reason the game was close as long as it was is the fact Michigan couldn't hit a shot to save their life. This game was over after the first 5 minutes no matter how close it seemed did anyone realistically think IU had a chance of winning? I didn't. Once Harris started hitting and creating it was good night and drive safe.

  • cooper

    Does anyone have a problem with Crean's comment that IU played a very very strong game until the end when they got rattled.

    I'm not sure what game he watched but I didn't see much strong play at all

  • BaseballBuc

    Ive got a question for everyone. This might sound ridiculous, but i want to see what you think.

    How do you think Bob Knight would do with this team? How successfull would he be and what would he do different?

    I'm not trying to be sarcastic, just want opinions.

  • hunteriualumni

    This was very hard to watch. We do not play with any passion. The excuse we don't have talent is BS. Michigan does not have much talent. They have one player and that is all. We have the same talent as anyone in the Big Ten except Purdue and Michigan State. We don't use the talent we have. We continue to play every other team's game. Why not try using some size(4 guys 6'9) and press with two guards. Elston Pritchard and Watford as the bigs with Capo and Bawa for a breather. If they get into foul trouble, so what they are in foul trouble every game. It is unacceptable for them to be winded during the game.
    Coach Crean has done a lot for the program. He has brought back alumni and has a good class this year. We have a clean program and I believe we will continue to be clean. We have focused too much time on 5 star players that aren't coming. Find 4 and 3 star players that can play. I see plenty on other teams. We need to run some basic plays. We have shown nothing on the offensive end and zero adjustments during the games.
    We need to quit accepting excuses and the team should start to play basketball. How can the talent at all of the schools we have played this year be better than ours? Our freshmen have more playing time than most get, and they continue to look like freshmen in high school. You can have all the talent in the world, but you won't win if someone doesn't put the right combinations on the floor.

  • OldIUGymnast

    I HAD a 42' vertical back when I was at IU… but I still couldn't dunk because I am only 5'6 and my hands are too small to palm (so I needed another 6 inches to be able to 2 hand). I could shoot 3's but the guys who were 6'6 could block me from 5 feet away. Sucks being short and loving basketball. Thank God for gymnastics where short guys who are athletic are appreciated!

    But I think Crean is a good coach and good recruiter. And the offense he is running looks a pretty good, except those guys need to screen like the mean it.

  • IUDan

    I hate to say it, but this is silly. Bob Knight doesn't coach this team. Are you asking if Bob Knight had never been fired? Or, what if he miraculously came back after the KS mess? If it's the latter, then I think we're in roughly the same position, maybe with a few more wins.

    I think he would be the FIRST to say you can't win with freshman/sophomores.

  • JerryCT

    FYI : IU was a net 0 in the score when Dumes was in the game. He sat the last 9:48 . This is 3 of the last 4 where we were net positive with him on the floor

    Some folks are bored by my drumbeat for more DUmes minutes. To me it is totally consistent with the facts to play Dumes 30 min /gm if you a) want to win, b) worry about our youth and c) worry about talent.

    If you donot worry about those things then I can understand your criticism of my point of view and the frequency with which I inflict it on this blog

  • cooper

    The team would be better on offense because his offense, and others like it, works with less talented players than Crean's does. Its the reason the Princeton offense can upset better teams in the tournament. He still wouldn't have anything for the defensive end and no I don't think he should be the coach.

  • Diesel

    I've been pretty quiet through the season on the board here, but I generally tend to be in agreeance with BGleas and this is one of the best posts I have read, particularly after a loss. We do have some talent, but not one-and-done talent, and it will take time for our talent to develop. Watford is the equivalent of a DJ White, and with Creek out for the season Christian could have a shot at freshman of the year in the B10, and he will continue to develop his body and skills and he will play at the next level, he's just not there yet. None of these guys are.

    And with the recruiting situation the way it is with limited scholarships, the growth of this team will be through development of the players in the program unless we get an impact guy to sign. Even if we signed guys like J Davis, C Zeller, Plumlee, and DSR we would all be stoked, but even those guys will not be impact, they will be good 3-4 year guys. So it's going to take time, we are 2 years away from competing for a B10 championship plain and simple and any other expectation is foolish. To even be in the game with 5 min remaining on the road against Michigan down Roth and Creek, you have to give Crean a ton of credit.

    Sorry stat of the year: I have more Pick to Click wins than our beloved Hoosiers have victories.

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