Good, Bad and Ugly: Loyola (Md.)
THE GOOD: THE COMEBACK, TOM PRITCHARD.
I started this game a bit late, so I had to play catchup on DVR. Because I always need to have my laptop open — always, always — I caught one of Alex’s Twitter updates that said IU had cut the lead to 11 with just under 12 minutes to go. At the time, I had just started the second half, and as the half wore on I became increasingly shocked by this fact: after all, IU showed no signs of really putting a dent into Loyola’s lead. They still trailed by 20 with 14:10 to go, and though they were taking care of the ball better — there was only one turnover in the first seven minutes of the second half — Loyola was hitting their shots, and IU wasn’t able to inch any closer.
But then the barrage hit. Maurice Creek knocked down two threes, Verdell Jones hit another, Creek hit a layup, got fouled and hit the free throw, Jones hit two free throws off a Creek steal, and suddenly the Hoosiers were only down six with 10:18 to go.
Another big part of IU’s comeback? Tom Pritchard. In the second half, he really reminded me of the Pritch of old: he was gobbling up rebounds, had a real knack for the ball and was a productive scorer. He had six offensive boards and eight total, and chipped in seven points. It wasn’t an amazing effort by any stretch, but he kept a lot of plays alive during the Hoosiers’ comeback run, and it was an integral part of why they were able to make this a game. IU, with their thin frontline, could use this kind of effort out of Pritch every night.
Yes, of course, there was plenty to gripe about in this game. (Just what until you get to The Bad.) But IU could have laid down and died in this one. Instead, they turned up the defensive pressure in both the full and half court, were aggressive and got to the line, and hit some big shots to bring them right back into this game.
This is what good teams do when they find themselves at a crossroads: They will themselves back into the game with good play on both sides of the ball. But good teams also find a way to win these games against an inferior opponent at home. And well, we all know that didn’t happen tonight.
THE BAD: OH, THERE WAS PLENTY.
I’ve seen some bad basketball in my day. I’ve played some bad basketball in my day. I know last year’s team turned the ball over at a freakishly high rate. But man, this has to rank up there as some of the most terrible basketball I’ve seen in recent history. It was a like a middle school game between two unskilled, uncoordinated teams. The game was basically a reversed course. Where Loyola feasted off IU’s turnovers for 20 points thanks to its full-court press in the first half, IU got back into this game on the strength of its three-quarters court trap in the second half. Both teams finished the night with 23 turnovers. Early in the first half, when IU actually was able to break the press (which was rare), every possession just seemed to be guys trying to drive — be it Maurice Creek, Christian Watford, Devan Dumes — and falling over themselves.
There was also a ridiculous 58 free throws shot in this game — 32 for IU; 26 for Loyola — which seemed to be to IU’s advantage. They hit a nice 10-of-12 in the first half, and were hitting early in the second.
But it killed them down the stretch: Jones missed two with 8:21 to go, Jeremiah Rivers missed four straight in the last 2:03, none more important than the two he missed with IU down 69-67 with 37 seconds to play, which essentially sealed the game for Loyola. In the second half, IU only shot 12-of-20 from the line, good for 60 percent. In a game that’s so close, one that you were once down 24 in, you have to do better than that.
And if you’re wondering why, when the shot clock and game clock were nearly identical after those last two missed free throws, the Hoosiers waited 20 seconds to foul, it’s because Brett Harvey happens to be the best returning free-throw shooter in the country from last season. When he didn’t give up the ball, IU had to eventually foul. And all it did was give them less time to mount a comeback. Down four with 17 seconds to go is a lot harder than down four with 35-36 seconds to go.
And ugh, the four-point play with just under two minutes to go in which Rivers fouled Harvey on a 3-point attempt that he made? A four-point lead with just under two minutes to go quickly became a two-point deficit. In a game like this, you can’t let that happen. You just can’t. And it was the second time it happened; the first play of the second half was a four-point play from Harvey, in which Rivers fouled him on a 3-pointer.
The worst play of the night? With 11 minutes to go in the first half, Watford looked to inbound the ball under Loyola’s basket. Hulls and Rivers were covered in the backcourt very near to him on the baseline. Dumes, the next closest Hoosier, was near the 3-point line down on IU’s side of the court. So what does Watford do? He throws it right to — literally it hit him chest high — Robert Olsen of Loyola, a guy that was standing pretty much at center court.
That play pretty much epitomizes how this game went.
THE UGLY: WHEN THE TIE COMES OFF, YOU KNOW TOM CREAN IS ANGRY.
December 23rd, 2009 at 3:53 am
I for one am getting very tired of the high school level play from these players. It's time Coach Crean benches them and frankly eats some butts out. This is getting embarrassing. The excuse they are freshman and we are making progress isn't cutting it any more.
December 23rd, 2009 at 4:17 am
Aren't they freshmen still?
Most of the guys on the team have play more h.s. ball than college ball.
If we bench the freshmen, we lost by 30….
December 23rd, 2009 at 4:28 am
Easy there, Trigger. Crean went deep into the bench early and often. The truth is the team lacks seasoned upperclassmen so we're going to be looking at inconsistent play this year. And really, I don't think anyone wants to see Coach Crean eat anyone's butt out.
December 23rd, 2009 at 4:40 am
I agree kelin, moore and gambles wouldnt have brought us back. You can't bench freshman for being inexperienced, give them another year so they can, you know, develop?
December 23rd, 2009 at 5:15 am
I was in the Hall for the game tonight. First, the crowd deserved a pretty hefty dose of credit for the comeback. For a holiday game with no student section, they did a pretty good job of encouraging our guys. Not sure if Pritch was winded at the end, or what, but when he came out of the game for the last time was when the momentum shifted back to Loyola. Coach played the odds game by rotating Dumas in for defensive purposes, but the offensive rhythm was lost and Jeremiah was a head case from the line. They froze. In hindsight, we probably should have just played straight up with Verdell, Devan, Creek, Pritch and Watford. Rivers became a liability. Felt bad for Jordy on that last turnover. This was a heartbreaker.
December 23rd, 2009 at 5:23 am
No leader on this team, plain and simple. There isn't a guy that says to his team, “give me the ball, we will win this game.” Crean has said it time after time in his press conferences about the lack of a 4 year guy thats says, “hey, this is how we do this here.” Until someone steps up, indiana will continue to struggle through battle tested close games. I don't care if it's a freshman that steps up or if it is Steven Gambles, someone needs to. But man oh man do I LOVE our potential and future in the big 10
December 23rd, 2009 at 5:26 am
if crean was going to bench them it would have been at/in the first half…then the comeback never happens, and then makes this game even worse (its pretty hard to imagine how it could actually get worse) these are the same freshman who walked into MSG and beat a pretty decent Pitt basketball team. They rattled off some stat about how our Freshman account for 58% of the teams scoring this year which is pretty crazy. Its going to be inconsistent, and borderline embarrassing at points, but the road to recovery(relevance) is not going to be a straight line.
-im alright with the “they are freshman' excuses for as long as they are freshman. these kids are good and they will get better. The junior point guard missing freethrows on the other hand…
December 23rd, 2009 at 5:32 am
Freshman or not…I simply cannot believe that we lose games to teams like this. For the first time I am really questioning Crean. I let last year slide because of the lack of talent…I know they are still young but you don't have to have talent to have effort and the silly mistakes and lack of offense are signs of bad coaching to me. This one stings…bad…I am left wondering how many games we will win in the B10 this year…ok…I am going to get off the ledge now…GO IU!
December 23rd, 2009 at 6:26 am
I accepted excuses as to why we got swept in PR, but this loss is legitimately scary. We looked completely disorganized and unfocused on both ends of the court. I'm not sure our comeback had as much to do with us playing well as with Loyola just not being a very good team.
While there is no question we are a deeper, more talented team than last year, I'm not convinced the talent is going to translate to Big 10 wins.
December 23rd, 2009 at 7:45 am
I 2nd this.
You would think if your father was a basketball coach, you would shoot free throws yeah?
Sorry Rivers, just kinda funny to me
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December 23rd, 2009 at 8:09 am
part of the problem is definitely crean's offense. And IU fans are spoiled because of being exposed to Knight's motion offense. Knight's teams were able to play above their talent level because they made the right cuts and set the right off-ball screens to get open looks. They used offensive sets to get advantages in positioning. Crean's offense, which is more of a pro-style offense, can only play at or below the talent level. It usually involves a high ball screen with wing and post players trying to spread out the court. This requires players to get open shots for themselves, coming of on-ball screens, and hopefully taking advantage of defensive help to kick it out for open shots. But, we don't have the players for this yet. The upside is that this type of offense seems to attract the big time players, because they can be showcased more prominently, a good example is the difference between wisconsin or purdue and kentucky or memphis. The obvious downside is that we have to wait for 5star talent to have a really good team and also the fact that on off nights we can and will lose to teams with lesser talent than we have. Why did memphis always choke in the tourney? Because a better TEAM could knock them off, i would suggest that creans tournament woes are related to this as well. Many of our turnovers were actually caused by the offense. Wisconsin hardly ever turns the ball over because they are passing to open players coming off screens. Instead, when you force players, especially novice players, to create shots for themselves, they tend to force the issue, lose control and make poor decisions. The turnovers are a byproduct of our offense. Also, a player like jordan hulls, who would have been great in a motion offense, because of his decision making skills and good shooting, is almost a waste in creans offense. He is never going to break someone's knees and slice through a defense like john wall or dewayne wade or even j rivers for that matter.
December 23rd, 2009 at 11:52 am
All I want for Christmas is for someone to please please please make a free throw
December 23rd, 2009 at 12:43 pm
I wish all our freshman played like John Wall or Xavier Henry, but they don't. They aren't prodigies, and they will make mistakes. Deal with it. The lack of offense is hardly a sign of a bad offense. IT certainly worked at Marquette, which played in the best conference in the country, but according to your logic if it doesn't work here it must be a bad system. It doesn't work that way.
The loss stings, moreso that we were so close, and came up short. I realize that, but don't blow Crean's results out of proportion and nail him for it.
December 23rd, 2009 at 12:45 pm
I 2nd this.
You would think if your father was a basketball coach, you would shoot free throws yeah?
Sorry Rivers, just kinda funny to me
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December 23rd, 2009 at 12:47 pm
I disagree about Memphis. They go to the title game and if it wasn't for a 1 in 10 chance shot from Chalmers, they win that game. Eventually, you have to give them some credit.
December 23rd, 2009 at 12:59 pm
I don't understand the decision making last night. They get into a 24 point hole and then decide to pressure full court and turn it into a 2 point advantage. Then we change back to the half court defense that put them into the 24 point hole in the first place and lose the game. I really hope that Crean looked into those guys' eyes and saw that they were too winded to continue with the full court press because that was an incredible momentum swing back into the game and then again right out of it. It seemed genius to have the four guard set in there with pressure and then to gain the lead and get out of what got you there seemed quite the opposite.
December 23rd, 2009 at 1:42 pm
Good points and if high 4 or 5 star talent is necessary we certainly don't have anyone with that billing in 10 or 11 coming in thus far.
December 23rd, 2009 at 1:46 pm
THE GOOD:
Crean's Tie and Shirt – Finally a white shirt and a red tie. Thank you!
THE BAD & UGLY:
Everything else. Who wants a comeback when you lose? It's a terrible feeling for player and fan alike.
I hate to say this, but it's a huge step backward to lose a game like this. For all the excitement and enthusiasm surrounding the win over Pitt, this loss brings us back to where we probably belong…the Big Ten cellar.
The Pitt win was an anomaly – the losses to Boston, George Mason, and Loyola are par for the course.
It's just unacceptable – I don't care who is on the court. At Indiana, that is unacceptable. If that's not the message that Crean is preaching to his players, then that too is unacceptable. You can't baby these kids anymore. It's Indiana, right?
The talent is there this year, but we still drop the experience excuse anytime we can. I'm done with it. Suck it up and win a game.
Rivers spent an entire year practicing – he should be way better at FTs and shooting.
Watford and Creek are highly touted recruits…Creek disappears at times and Watford has struggled mightily lately. Expected for freshmen, but they have to both play well at the same time.
Hulls was a stud on the AAU circuit and a leader on his high school state championship team.
Prtichard was a beast last year and now he looks like a beaten mule. Why?
Jones and Dumes sometimes seem like the older sibling that's depressed because the baby gets more attention. Deal with it and play nice.
There's no chemistry and there should be! At this point in the season, we should look better than this.
These guys have my full support, but I'm not going to curl up next them and whisper it'll be alright anymore. It's time to grow up or else next year is going to be the exact same thing. You can only put on a happy face for so long.
I'm going to cheer and yell and scream and hoot and holler for my Hoosiers all year long, but my expectations for anything more than a few Ws against Iowa just flew out the window.
December 23rd, 2009 at 1:47 pm
Observations:
* Creek did absolutely nothing to get himself the ball early in the game and deserved bench time. He can be an All-American by the time he's a junior if he just learns to move without the ball and not simply rely on being 3 to 5 inches taller than the guy guarding him.
* Despite the free throw issue, Rivers deserves a lot of credit for wanting to bring this team back.
* I thought Dumas was the absolute perfect player to have in the game when we were 20-plus down. Nobody can push opponents and give less effort and complain to the referees about being assaulted like my absolute, all-time least favorite Indiana basketball player.
* If I would have seen one more limp-wristed inbounds pass to a double-teamed guard in a corner, I would have put a chair through the TV.
December 23rd, 2009 at 1:50 pm
The last three minutes of the game the ball should be in Creek's hands or running direct plays to get him an open look. If we are going to just play a pro style offense the ball needs to be in the hands of the player who has the best chance. Why Rivers is driving to the basket with the game on the line is beyond me because good scouting will instruct players to foul him every time. There is one person on this team that's proven to be a potential big time player so lets make sure he at least has the option of making a play. Creek got the run started, played great defense and the coach needs to make sure his players understand who get's the ball NOT saying we need on the court leaders all the time.
December 23rd, 2009 at 1:51 pm
Not in favor of the pro-set offense! Nobody was setting screens and 4 guards sit on the outside and try to drive to the bucket, where we lack intensity on the boards. When Verdell goes to the hoop, he is NEVER looking to pass. I am not a fan of this offense, never have, never will be! On a lot of the top teams (not all) there is a lot more screens, picks in the lane to free the bigs and we have nothing like that. The team showed grit by not putting their heads down and fighting back.
December 23rd, 2009 at 1:58 pm
So did Rivers take a crash course at the “Bobby Capobianco FT Clinic”?
December 23rd, 2009 at 2:24 pm
I am angry and disappointed. For the first time I feel I can safely say that Crean got completely and thoroughly outcoached………….not even close to being a good coach in this game. Worse yet, I suspect poor coaching in practice is what was revealed in the game.
PROOF: Look how many minutes we went w no organization and no points or stops in the first half. We had no answers and we are supposed to be ready for the B10. Look at our completely weak in bounds sets which lasted the entire game. We were completely unprepared which means poorly coached.
Several weeks ago I said I am tired of the “freshman, inexperience” excuse ……….really tired. What are we supposed to do ? Feel sorry for ourselves all the time ? To me and maybe to the players it is beginning to sound like a reason to lose. Reminds me of Scarlet O'hara
For a more technical breakdown I reccommend the “Brian Evans” post above
December 23rd, 2009 at 2:53 pm
I couldn't believe my eyes when Jerimiah drove the middle late in the game. I had absolutely no confidence in his free-making ability. Why drive in, late in the game to get fouled and miss two free throws. This play makes about as much sense as an intentional turnover. I hope that Crean didn't draw up this play. The ball should have been in the hands of a free throw shooter.
Between Rivers, Pritchard and Capo, three of the worst free throw shooters in the league. As a coach, you need to find a way to improve their free throw shooting and keep them out of positions where they compromise the teams chance of winning a game.
The other issue I had with the game is that the team does not realize how precious each possesion is. We need to learn to treat each possesion as if its outcome will determine who wins the game. Because it often does.
Go Hoosiers!
December 23rd, 2009 at 2:58 pm
I agree with quite a bit of what you say, but I do understand having Rivers driving last night because he is 6'5″, fairly strong/athletic, and was guarded by a Lilliputian who looked like an accountant. I just wish Rivers could shoot FTs with something relatively close to that Lilliputian's %.
December 23rd, 2009 at 3:15 pm
I'm still pissed today and here' why . . . A bad half against Kentucky is one thing. We got outscored in the second half against UK by 16. That's a bad half with a drought and some bad defense against a top ranked team. I REALLY thought we were past having halves like we did last night against non-relevant, 5-5, below mid-major teams!!! The first half last night was beyond bad and I think had IU went to the trapping press earlier they could have changed the momentum earlier. It was obvious that Loy was going to continue hitting shots as the shot clock expired, stifling any kind of momentum swing we could attain on offense, so unless we did something on defense to change the momentum, it wasn't going to happen. The press did just that, only we waited 20 minutes too long. If we can go 12-13 deep we should've had the legs to press much longer. I disagree with the, “Well, these guys have to hit 50 free throws before they can leave practice,” speech if it takes them 75 to make 50. We should be shooting hundreds of free throws at the end of practice and at the beginning of practice and in the middle of practice. Practice should be extended by 30 minutes a day just shooting free throws.
There, I think I'm done complaining about this one!
December 23rd, 2009 at 3:18 pm
Having been under the basket for this one, I was dumbfounded that, down the stretch, IU ignored the very style of play that got them back in the game to begin with: Transition baskets.
Defensive pressure created turnovers and open looks on the offensive side. When we finally clawed back IU slowed it up and tried to work points from an ineffective offensive set. Moreover, the offense was drawn up to get Rivers the ball on an obvious size mis-match. Jeremiah did so many good things in transition, but they were overshadowed by poor foul-shooting and fouls at key marks in the game.
I question not having Hulls in for more minutes. Anything good that happened to this team happened when he was on the floor. I question our offensive strategy to resort to traditional play, when the up-tempo style got us in a position to win. All-in-all, I put this loss in the Crean “in-box”. I mean, if you recognize your weakest FT shooter is on the floor, why would you set an offense to get him the ball, and why would you become conservative when wide-open play got you in a position to win??
December 23rd, 2009 at 3:24 pm
People don't start the “we need 5 star” talent thing with this game….Mo Creek is 5star talent no question. The team played bad, dug themselves a hole, had some character to come back but fell short…..Now enjoy your Christmas and don't beat yourselves, Crean, or the team up too much.
My optimism is this…..THIS group as juniors, with VO, SHeehey, as Sophs….a young big and a scoring Austin Etherington and a tough Matt Carlino…..IS GOING to the BIG DANCE. ….oh and a shot blocking Bawa
December 23rd, 2009 at 3:25 pm
Oh, and the key play? Because, there was one that defined (and ended) our chances to win:
Rivers misses two free throws, then fouls on a made 3-pointer. Six point swing when we were up three. Now down one.
Game over.
December 23rd, 2009 at 3:31 pm
I am not a coach of basketball…just a huge fan so maybe you can explain this “offense” to me. They are dribbling around for 20+ seconds…dribble hand offs…a few screens and we call it an offense? maybe I am missing it…but I just think that over the course of 6-7 minutes of a game against an inferior team, if we had a good offense that you could run a play or two and score some points…I am not putting this all on crean…watford played horrible…missed a ton of shots he shouldn't have…I am just getting tired of all the excuses of youth or how far the team has to come back from or fill in the blank. I don't expect our freshman to play like Wall or Henry…I just expect them to beat teams like Boston U and Loyola-Maryland. I would feel better about this team had they lost the Pitt game and won this one.
I hate losing…but I hate watching IU lose more.
December 23rd, 2009 at 3:37 pm
great post…never thought about it this way…any chance Crean would change his coaching style? lol…
December 23rd, 2009 at 3:47 pm
Keep in mind this is during everyone's Christmas Break. It's easy for a player to fall asleep and not care about a game against a team they know they should beat. Key example from the first half of this game and last game was Verdell.
December 23rd, 2009 at 3:48 pm
I'm gonna have to agree with some of the Crean bashing.
First of all, no Big Ten team against an opponent of this caliber should go through the eight minute drought IU did last night. Turnovers on 8 of our 9 first possessions? Inexcusable. We were not strong with the ball and CTC made ZERO adjustments. (aside from entering another 4 guys that made no adjustments)
Once coach found the right combination and scheme to get us the lead, he reverted back to the strategy that got us in the hole in the first place.
We have a tie game or are down a few and what do we set up after a timeout? Isolate Rivers and he gets fouled! He just clanked four terrible free throws!
Finally, we are DOWN with 35 seconds to play, and we are not pressing or calling a timeout! What the hell dude! I was screaming at the TV for 15 seconds.
Not a good showing for CTC. A guy I have been backing from day one.
December 23rd, 2009 at 3:48 pm
Rivers!?!?!?…….I don't understand. Without him we don't come back, with him we lose.
December 23rd, 2009 at 4:08 pm
Then you are saying,”Crean runs an offense that helps players prepare for the NBA but is less than effective in winning, specially at tournament time!!!
Maybe that is not the type coach we need!!!
December 23rd, 2009 at 4:11 pm
dumbfounded…..welcome to the site…..be careful it is addictive….but well worth it…..I agree with your points about fouling. We should have denied that kid the ball or fouled off the ball…..
December 23rd, 2009 at 4:13 pm
Finally, Someone who makes some sense and knows basketball posts something legit on here or the Scoop. Thank you Brian Evans.
Exactly what happened to Memphis, as well as a lot of Big East teams in years when they were supposedly the best and deepest conference. You can run and play free ball, but you have to have sets to go to when you NEED points (During a run or at the end of a close game in crunch time) [See UNC, MSU] Chalmers shot was nice in that Championship Game, but after that what happened? Kansas spanked Memphis. eventually shots won't fall, and teams can get a stop when the need to if your only play is to give the ball to one guy and have him drive. Its easy to collapse, help, and make it essentially 1 on 5 when there is only so much time left.
Another interesting note. I don't think Youth can be the excuse for everything like some want it to be. We were set up by the coaching staff in the first half to throw the ball in to 1 of 2 gaurds cutting against 3 guys right into the corner of a trap press. Every Junior High kid in Indiana knows not to do that, why doesn't Crean. It lead to to 20 points off 14 turnovers in a half that saw Loyola up 18. Some will say lack of execution. If that were true, then why did we switch our press break at half time, and the kids executed beautifully, even before the run. (See 1 turnover the first 7 minutes) It really took 14 turnovers, 20 points, and 20 minutes to change this? That has nothing to do with youth or inexperience of our players. That's on the million dollar man.
December 23rd, 2009 at 4:15 pm
JUST WAIT UNTIL NEXT YEAR, JUST WAIT UNTIL NEXT YEAR!!!
SEEMS I'VE HEARD THAT BEFORE!!!
December 23rd, 2009 at 4:24 pm
I like Crean but this one is his Crean's fault. He was thoroughly outcoached this game and he lost his mind during the “comeback”. First, it wasn't a comeback because of what IU was doing. Loyola (a very young team) lost their minds and shooting ability for about 10 minutes. They were missing wide open shoots and fumbling the ball like it was greased.
The only thing effective in this game was IU pressing. Mind you, it lead to wide open shots Loyola was missing but it made them very uncomfortable. As soon as they got close they stopped pressing, resulting in Loyola being able to compose themselves and come back and win. With how bad they are playing set D, they should be pressing all the time.
Second, Creek starts hitting a few shots and then gets yanked from the game cools off and is ineffective. When he is the best scorer on the team, deal with the bad Defense.
Crean was coaching in a panic, making way too many subs and not composing his team. He has no pattern to his substituting, he needs to drop this 13 man rotation and find a core 9 guys. I'm tired of seeing him clapping like a moron on the sidelines when things are going wrong. Light a fire, get pissed off, yell and scream, do something other than stand there clapping. Finally, why didn't he foul at the end of the game? If their best free throw shooter has the ball, double him and make him pass. They wasted any chance to come back with those 14 seconds.
Make no mistake, Loyola was the better team last night, tougher, better coached, and better play. How many times did Loyola's help side defender come over and block a shot? IU is clueless on D, they have no idea how to play help side D, or how to switch off screens. They were running basic curl screens and coming in the lane wide open.
It was a piss poor performance, who cares its Christmas or no students where there, that is a stupid excuse from apologists. Those excuses won't make them better. If I was the Coach, they wouldn't be going home for Christmas, they can spend it at The Hall doing suicides and defensive drills.
I will root for IU til I die and I will support the team and coach, but I'll call them out and do so gladly anytime they play bad or look that bad.
December 23rd, 2009 at 4:31 pm
Creek has got to get more than 6 shots!
December 23rd, 2009 at 4:32 pm
Creek has got to get more than 6 shots!!!
December 23rd, 2009 at 4:36 pm
I have NEVER NEVER EVER seen anyone of Christian Watford's height and athletic ability get so many shots blocked. That must be lack of fundamentals that should be getting taught to him.
December 23rd, 2009 at 5:16 pm
You just agreed with my point. UNC is a freeform team, like IU/Crean wants to be, or at least is set up as now, remember offensive setup is the topic of this reply, but when they won the championship last year they had set plays to go to in crunch time when they needed it. They did as well in 2005 when they won it with Sean May. We can be freeform, nba prostyle dribble drive, all we want, but the teams that win with this style can still slow it down and run a set. A set mind you that is not a gaurd going 1 on 5. UNC got layups out of sets that took 30 seconds of clock off when they needed them, even though they were a freeform team most of the game. If we have any hopes of future banners under Crean, we need something similar. They (UNC) CAN and WILL/DO run sets when they HAVE to, we have shown no signs of even trying. If we don't try for an easy layup out of a set when we don't have the talent to just give the ball to a kid and say go score, then what are we going to do when we have talent? It's just not a proven winning formula. Again, see the Memphis argument. If they had sets for the last 3 minutes of that game, Chalmers shot wouldn't have mattered because they would've used the clock and got easy buckets instead of getting turnovers and missing free throws. They could have won going away, instead it goes OT and they lose.
December 23rd, 2009 at 5:36 pm
or you could have trapped him and forced him to give up the ball or face a 5 second call.. i love crean but that had shades of Les Miles LSU football team written all over it!
December 23rd, 2009 at 6:01 pm
Drew, I agree with you. I've only seen a few of the games, but the team never seems to have any flow on offense at all. Most of the time, they look like they have no idea what to do at all, except stand around. The only play they seem to have is for Rivers to drive and dish, or for Dumes to drive and throw the ball away or take a dumb shot.
December 23rd, 2009 at 6:05 pm
This analysis makes a lot of sense to me. I think CTC's system puts to much pressure on young player's (even talented players) to do more than they are capable of doing at this point. I want a program designed to win maxmium number games not one that is just to develop NBA prospects. I don't even like NBA basketball that much, though I do follow the Blazers.
December 23rd, 2009 at 6:47 pm
When does the IU commit or commits play on T.V. Kelin said something about it earlier. Its on ESPNU? Can someone help me out. I believe its Sheehey.
December 23rd, 2009 at 7:30 pm
How is it Coach Crean's fault when players don't run the baseline after a made basket? My 13 year old sister knows you can do that! This loss has to go squarely on the players. They were getting beat up and down the floor by a less athletic group of players from Loyola. They got complacent on the boards and their defense was atrocious. The reason they played extremely well against Kentucky in that first half was terrific shooting and prolific DEFENSE! You know why they fell behind early? Their defense was atrocious. I watched far too many times that there was zero help-side defense and when someone would play aggressive and try to take away a pass, they would cut back door and there would be no one to help cover their man. They finally played defense in the second half. When they play great defense, they create steals and then Jeremiah can push the ball in transition and find people. You're right about not letting Jeremiah try to break down the defense from the top of the key but in transition, there is no one better at finding the open man than Rivers. Hulls is spectacular in the half-court game but don't tell me he is better at finding people than Rivers in transition. They play defense and rebound the ball (which they didn't do in the first half) they play excellent. When they get beat on the boards and don't play good, aggressive half court defense, they won't win another game. Plain and simple
December 23rd, 2009 at 7:33 pm
oh, do you mean that final four that they went to but NEVER WENT TO. i.e. it was vacated because of cheating. when your offense is absolutely dependent on dwane wade's to work, maybe we should cheat again as well to get to the championship game.
and maybe check out the 8 years at memphis prior to that run and you will see a lot of 1,2, and 3 seeds choking in the tourney.
December 23rd, 2009 at 7:41 pm
i am not sure. i still like a lot of what crean does. he is charismatic, he recruits, he excites the fans etc, but im not convinced he's a wiz with x's and o's or teaching fundamental basketball. As long as we have a few assistants who know the game well, that could help. and the fact still remains that Sampson left this program in shambles. crean was still a good pickup. but i have serious doubts if he is the one to bring iu basketball back to its old form.
December 23rd, 2009 at 8:42 pm
IU will be back. One more recruiting class like the one we got this year and we will not be discussing a loss to Loyola Maryland.
December 23rd, 2009 at 9:25 pm
I agree. I'm an IU student from Milwaukee. I followed Crean at Marquette. He's NOT a good X's and O's coach. Just watch an IU game. The offense is horrible. Its sloppy and very inconsistent. At this point its not about being young. IU has good DIV I athletes and yet, we look like Bloomington South on the offensive end. Crean's coaching didn't take Marquette anywhere. Dwayne Wade took Marquette somewhere. Crean does motivate and talk well. And he can recruit—although a positional recruiter. He recruits and recruits PG and SG. IU won't win a sixth unless we get a 'Dwayne Wade' or Crean starts recruiting all positions. We won't hang a sixth banner because of Creans coaching ability. Just like at Marquette, he recruits big men “projects” like Jobe and Maniru. Waste of scholarship.
December 23rd, 2009 at 9:40 pm
That's silly. Just because the NCAA vacated that game does not mean a basketball team did not play that day. And the above argument was with regard to the team that played, not any allegations of impropriety.
Folks that are criticizing Crean's offense maybe should give him the time he's said he needs all along to build a quality team running his system. He's consistently said this would not be the year. Stop acting as if it is. What you are watching is a work in progress.
December 23rd, 2009 at 9:42 pm
UNC is a more freeform team than pretty much any. They don't run sets unless they have to. They've been as successful as anyone. I just don't think this is a very accurate point.
December 23rd, 2009 at 10:23 pm
Totally disagree with your excuse that its Christamas break. These kids were brought to IU to play basketball getting a FREE valuable education. They should at least give a damn about IU pride let alone their own. There is no excuse for lack of hustle!!!! Tom Crean needs to worry more about getting his team ready to play rather than worring about what the fans are chanting.
December 23rd, 2009 at 11:02 pm
the fact is those things are one and the same. Players look for teams who run a pro style offense. To get the best players you have to play the style they want to play. IU could play the Princeton system all they want, but that isn't going to matter. Do we really aspire to be Wisconsin or Purdue? Right now we'd all take that, but in the long run its not what I want. Purdue has been irrelevant for years, and Wisconsin has been consistent but not championship quality.
With that said, Crean was out coached, has no rhyme or reason to his substituting, and shouldn't have stopped pressing when it was effective.
December 24th, 2009 at 12:32 am
I agree with this assessment completely. As much as we all wish we could be Kentucky and go 13-0 with a roster blazing with talent, it doesn't happen all the time. Gotta give it some time.
December 24th, 2009 at 12:37 am
So wait a minute. Do you think these freshman are used to missing holidays? This is most likely the first time in their entire LIVES that they have missed Christmas or so. You think that doesn't have some effect? Is it a coincidence that 3 of our four leading scorers were sophomores or above? Ofcourse they give a damn about Indiana. Saying they should forget about what they are used to is completely wishful thinking.
December 24th, 2009 at 2:14 am
Work in progress? We played Loyola (MD). At home.
December 24th, 2009 at 2:25 am
I agree. I'm an IU student from Milwaukee. I followed Crean at Marquette. He's NOT a good X's and O's coach. Just watch an IU game. The offense is horrible. Its sloppy and very inconsistent. At this point its not about being young. IU has good DIV I athletes and yet, we look like Bloomington South on the offensive end. Crean's coaching didn't take Marquette anywhere. Dwayne Wade took Marquette somewhere. Crean does motivate and talk well. And he can recruit—although a positional recruiter. He recruits and recruits PG and SG. IU won't win a sixth unless we get a 'Dwayne Wade' or Crean starts recruiting all positions. We won't hang a sixth banner because of Creans coaching ability. Just like at Marquette, he recruits big men “projects” like Jobe and Maniru. Waste of scholarship.
December 24th, 2009 at 4:14 am
Work in progress insinuates imperfection. What do you expect? I saw imperfection. I also saw a team come back from the depths.
December 24th, 2009 at 3:34 pm
HEY WHATS THE STATUS ON MATT ROTH… he need to erase DUMAS minutes fast
December 24th, 2009 at 5:36 pm
Coach Crean is a great guy! Think that we will be commenting next year at this time—Wait till next year. No Bigs, no Big Ten Championships! Crean's style won't work in the Big Ten!!
December 24th, 2009 at 8:03 pm
From what I've heard Roth will be redshirting this season.
December 25th, 2009 at 4:30 am
How does Maurice Creek only take 6 shots after scoring 31 and 29 the last two games?
Don't tell me Coach Patsos of “double teaming Curry at the half court while the rest of the team plays 4 on 3″ fame masterminded some shut down of Creek. If you want to tell me that Loyola (MD) can “shut down” Maurice Creek, then what are Big Ten teams going to be able to do against us? We're flat out screwed if this is the case.
That's just ridiculous. You gotta make sure Creek is getting some looks. He had to force a shot early in the game because nothing was being done to get him open. He's the one guy on our team with a knack for making shots and making GOOD things happen on a regular basis.
6 shots and 1 free throw? Give me a break. Some things are not that complicated.
December 25th, 2009 at 4:36 am
Can anyone in the press tell me if Crean is getting asked questions such as …
1. How does a guy who scored 31 and 29 in the last two games only take 6 shots?
2. To what degree has Jeremiah Rivers worked on how to shoot free throws?
3. How prepared were you to break the press?
4. What alternative plans did you come up with when your game plan obviously wasn't working?
5. How well do you think the current team fits your offensive style?
6. Have you talked to Christian Watford about how pathetic it is that he gets blocked 3-4 times a game when he's 6'7 and an athlete? Do you work on anything related to this, because he just does the same thing again and again and again? 29 turnovers and he's not even a ballhandler!
I'm not in the press room…but it seems like from what I hear, there aren't a lot of tough questions being asked. Does the media just give Crean a free pass again this year?
I support him and this team…I just want to know some of these answers.
Ugh…I hope Bryant stinks as bad as we think they do. The Hoosiers need to embarass someone out of the gym to make us feel better.
December 25th, 2009 at 8:09 am
This is the conversation I want to have.
I don't want to be wisconsin or purdue, i want to be INDIANA!! We were the program that wisconsin and purdue are trying to imitate. A team that kept players 4 years and brought them into a program or system of basketball that really taught them the game and vied for championships. We won championships because we played better basketball, though we did have good players (but oftentimes we were outmatched as far as talent and still won). I don't want to play a poor game of basketball, and yes i think pro style offenses are poor form, just to try and get the good players. I don't want to look like memphis, kentucky, or even NC, though NC would be much preferred. I want to play good Indiana basketball and attract the players who want to learn how to play the game well. Andrae Patterson's, Isaiah Thomas', Alan Henderson's, Steve Alford's, AJ Guyton's, we got good talent before by playing a smart, fundamentally sound game, why can't we now? Why do we have to race to the bottom to cross our fingers that the next john wall comes here?. He probably won't. The wondeful thing about Knights teams was that we never had to cross our fingers for john walls or dewyane wade type talent, because even with less talented teams we could keep up with anyone, though Isaiah Thomas didn't hurt, haha. Crean's whole mantra coming in was, “this is Indiana,” well hopefully sometime soon he will start watching tape to see how Indiana used to play. Because it was a beautiful thing. And a pro-style offense, whether it's Mike Davis', Kelvin Sampson's, or Crean's isn't considered indiana basketball in my book and it is an affront to probably the most knowledgable fan base, in terms of bball IQ, in the country (even when taskmaster75 is included.). And it kills me to say this but Purdue, or even butler's, team this year is the closest thing to Indiana Basketball I've seen in this state since '01. They have local players, playing good defense, and running efficient, smart offensive sets.
December 25th, 2009 at 6:48 pm
Brian Evans……..
How many times did the motion offense choke in the tourney????????
Do the Richmond, Colorado, Pepperdine, Cleveland State, etc losses ring a bell?
December 26th, 2009 at 7:33 am
i never said knight was a perfect coach, i said i liked his offense.
and i never blamed those early exits on the offense which still provided good shots, i blamed that on knights psychology games backfiring and having the whole team afraid to shoot upon entering the tourney. remember how each of those years we would usually win a preseason tourney, climb the rankings to top 10-15 and then get progressively worse throughout the season. i had always blamed the descent of knights final hoosier teams on his psychological scare tactics that didnt work anymore. and if you would watch the games IU was playing timid and often our star players were gunshy in the tourney. thats why when you had mike davis, a positive guy and a descent motivator, coaching knights players, who had been taught the game well, they went to the ship.
December 26th, 2009 at 9:58 pm
I watched that “foul” from 5 angles… that was a weak anticipation call. Rivers did NOT touch him