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Good, Bad and Ugly: Maryland

by Ryan Corazza in Good Bad Ugly | December 1st, 2009

THE GOOD: KEEPING IT CLOSE, RESERVE PLAY.

Hmmm, where to begin. Let’s take some baby steps here. Save for the last few minutes where it all unraveled, Indiana hung right with Maryland, and during several stretches, outplayed and outworked the Terrapins –  a tournament team last season. A team that was ranked earlier this year. IU had a lead with 9:44 to go. It led for a good stretch in the first half. As much as we want expectations to be higher and wins to be a result, at this juncture in the season it’s progress.

The Puerto Rico incarnation of these Hoosiers likely doesn’t keep it this close for this long, or look as poised and as polished as IU did for stretches tonight.

About the only other thing I want to point out here is one key difference this year as opposed to last, and that’s IU actually having viable options off the bench. When Jeremiah Rivers went down with his injury early in the first half after that nifty layup– I worry his trashing style of play might lead to more scary moments like that later in the season — Jordan Hulls filled in without skipping a beat. He hit a three, and had a dazzling no-look pass to Christian Watford under the bucket. Watford scored, was fouled and hit the free throw. Having two capable point guards will be huge as the season progresses. Derek Elston also showed some spark off the bench, too. He didn’t have a good shooting night, but he had nine boards in 20 minutes. He continues to make the most out of his time on the court.

THE BAD: LOOOOONG SCORING DROUGHTS.

IU still seems to be figuring things out in the half court. When they got out in transition in the first half, they made some heady decisions. But when they were forced into half-court sets, there still seems to be a lot of indecision, and it’s clear this is still a facet of the their game that’s a work in progress. However, there was good ball movement in stretches.

But when you add in a night of awful shooting — IU shot a woeful 23-70 from the field (32.9 percent), 7-of-26 from three-point land (26.9 percent) and 15-of-22 from the charity stripe (68.2 percent) including the front end of one-and-one’s in the second half — and some poor shot selection (Devan Dumes, I’m looking at you) on top of some inexperience in the half court, it’s incredibly difficult to pull out a victory, especially against a team of Maryland’s caliber.

There’s a reason IU had had 20 offensive rebounds tonight: they had plenty of misses to gobble up.

THE UGLY: LATE-GAME FOULS, THE SLATE AHEAD.

This is a minor, petty gripe, and I know a game is never over till it’s over, but IU seemed to be fouling when they were down 12 or so with around 30 seconds left. It prolonged the sting of the loss, and that’s never fun.

IU has week a off, and then takes on Pitt — another fringe Top 25 team — at Madison Square Garden. The following Saturday, they have Kentucky  — one of the best teams in the nation — at home. If they don’t start shooting better, they may be out of those games far earlier than tonight’s affair.

At some point, IU is going to put it all together, and beat a team that has more talent and experience. They have too much talent, and will only continue to get better. But don’t expect it to come until Big Ten play starts.

  • Crean is starting to turn out like Obama. Fading faing fing .. .

    Alley Hoop to Tommy P.. I dont think Mike Davis, Kelvin Sampson or Dan Dakich would allow a play of that nature to occur under their watch..

    Crean if you going to run up and down the sidelines like a mad man then you only raise you expections SIT DOWN and let this young team play and find its groove in the college basketball arena. Stay away from the COKE and try Pepsi less addicting ya know what people say about coca cola products.
  • Indiana Red
    /snores
  • The UGLY : Some of the second half lineups against the zone (no shot creator on the floor) Crean what or are you thinking)

    The BAD: The head coach not making proper adjustments against the zone and allowing Dumes to shot garbage but bash on Daniel Moore for the intentional foul. The guy shouldnt even be playing for crying out loud CREAN.

    The GOOD : The amount of money Crean gets for making the decision he makes.

    I don't get the opportunity to watch this team practice so I don't really know who deserves to be in the game or getting playing time. I do know however if we wanna win some games this year COACH CREAN needs to make some adjustments.

    The only people on the team that should be allowed to shoot a 3 pointer Hulls, Roth, Elston, Dumes, and Creek. No one other than those 5 sorry watford, verdell, and rivers

    Daniel Moore and Tijan Jobe should clock about 3-5 minutes a game nothing more NO PRODUCTIONS.

    Sit TOM PRITCHARD down the guy is known for missing LAYUPS and he starts CENTER

    I have Patience just not with this TEAM because CREAN doesnt have a PLAN. He will have NO ONE on the ROSTER capable of inside scoring night after night in the coming years.
  • q95
    what this team misses are the two kids from last year that transferred...williams and the other kid's name escapes me. there presence this year would have made a huge impact thus far. i hope we don't have similar issues with this group of newcomers.
  • Kelin Blab
    I read a good article in the Indy star about how PU's success w/ Painter took 5 years to get to where they are now....a lot of similarities in where the programs came from, although I think IU got totally gutted but a sign that we must be patient....

    and we must get a J.Davis, Selby, Teague, DSR, Patterson, Plumlee, Zeller.....
  • iudrew22
    who was the pick to click winner?
  • Hey Drew, I'll post a winner soon. Been under the weather for the past few days and haven't been able to look at it.
  • iudrew22
    no prob...just thought I might have missed it somewhere...hope you feel better soon!
  • Indiana Red
    My calculations have Creek winning it with 46 total points. And my college professors told me I'd never amount to anything.....
  • Sounds right. I'll run the numbers soon and do a post with year to date standings.
  • nathanzimmerman
    Apologies in advance for being so blunt, but:

    Bobby Capobianco is not a Division 1 basketball player. He just doesn't move or look like a basketball player.

    My old high school basketball coach coached against Bobby in Ohio twice a year for the past 4 years and told me before he got here that the kid was a good high school player, but not IU or Big Ten good. Not sure what we've got in him.
  • valpohistory
    One thing is for certain though, you can't teach 6'9" and 230 pounds.
  • nathanzimmerman
    you guys are all right.....and it is way too early for me to judge anyone. he def does have a good motor and a ton of energy....just looks out of place on the bball floor at this stage. but, as you all have said, i def need to give the kid a chance.

    however, in defense of my source, he played for Gene Keady at Purdue and is good friends with Thad Matta at OSU and sent 2 kids D1 in the past 2 years so i do value his ability to evaluate talent or at least understand what it takes. but again, the kid deserves a chance and i hope he proves me dead wrong and goes out and knocks some pitt panthers around next week.
  • valpohistory
    I won't lie, unless your high school coach is cranking out division 1 basketball players, he probably doesn't know what it takes. Crean has always billed Capobianco as being a nastry gritty strong player who can come off the bench and give high energy minutes. They don't think they're getting Tyler Hansborough here, they're just providing depth. He can't be any worse the TP as TP wouldn't have touched the floor last year on an Indiana team of the past. He is a strong 4 year player who will give good 5-10 minutes a game and will bring continuity to a program that has three upper classmen on scholarship. With Bobby, Elston, and Jordan Hulls, they are lining up at least 3 solid players who will hopefully continue to pay dividends to a program that needs stability. Bobby is probably the least athletic player on this team (scholarship players wise) but if he can grow on the bench and from getting minutes when players find themselves in foul trouble, he can learn the offense, be a good hardworker in practice, and see the floor more as he grows and matures as a basketball player.
  • IUDan
    I have to admit I get frustrated with these types of comments. I'm not sure anyone who doesn't watch practice can really say what we have or don't have with Bobby. With all due respect to your high school coach, there are a few college coaches who might disagree about whether he is a high-major caliber player - he had a few offers from good schools (WVA comes to mind). it's clear he's not an immediate impact player, but I can't imagine he's not D1 caliber - and that that assessment can be made 9 games into his career (one of which he played quite well off the bench).

    The same goes for Bawa - i'd love to see him on the court more, but I don't know how he looks in practice. Maybe he's being "sent a message". Who knows.

    I understand and encourage constructive criticism when appropriate, but I think on alot of these guys it's just too early to tell what we have at this point.
  • JerryCT
    Last year I had trouble seeing progress and even more trouble having any idea what if anything we could do better.

    Against MD I saw progress and see where we can improve. I thought Hulls began to play like we hoped. Watford scored from multiple spots on the floor. Elston and Creek continue to be fearless on offense and trying hard on D.


    I feel the top 3 things we need now are :

    1) killer help defense.....we are not too bad on the ball now
    2) 3pt shooting in the 1/2 court offense ( ie Creek and Dumes need to get open shots )
    3) TP or Elston or Capo MUST MUST MUST begin to roll hard to the bucket and get pts low or from a short jumper.

    a better 1/2 court offense against the zone.
  • JerryCT
    I finally got back to CT from the game with 3 friends who are MD alumni. Here are some of their comments:

    1. MD played with the most focus all year so far. You could tell by Vasquez NOT mugging after a play all night.

    2. Turning point was when we were up 7-8 pts and Elston missed 3 bunnies and MD came down and nailed a 3 changing the momentum dramatically and leading to a halftime lead

    3. Our substitution pattern made no sense to them ie Moore a 5' 10" walkon guarding a 6'6" Vasquez and not playing more players ( ie Capo, Jobe ) when they had their weak players on the floor ( ie Choi , padgett )

    4. Where was our zone offense ? have we no one who can shoot ?

    About the fan behaviour. They were impressed that our coach was disappointed in the fans negative chants. Their fans are awful, they know it and WIlliams does nothing to rein it in. They liked Crean's class.

    Can't wait to se Pitt. I like Watford discovering how he can try to score from anywhere on the floor

    4
  • Diesel
    Jerry, good points. I too was at the game and haven't had a chance to make some notes, some things that haven't been mentioned.

    1) I too thought the momentum killer was Elston missing those bunnies and then the 3 on the other end. The game changed right there. The other momentum killers were turnovers right out of 2 consecutive timeouts - one Dumes not catching the ball and it going OOB and the other Verdell travel. I was really interested to see what CTC had drawn up, but to do that at 6 and 4 min to go when it is still on the game falls on the players guys.

    2) This was a coming of age game for Jordy Hulls. Up to this point, I have not been impressed with his game management and control of the ball. Yes, he had shot well. But the Rivers injury may have been a blessing because it forced Hulls to step up and in and be the man, and he did a terrific job. He more than held his own.

    3) Zone offense - 2 things, yes Roth would help. And, there was some flashing to the middle, one time I noticed Creek in there flashing to the top - my guess is beside Watford, there is not much a scoring threat once the ball is caught up top. Plus the flash only takes place when the ball swings to the opposite side and that didn't seem to happen with regularity.

    4) Bawa - yes, I want to see him too. I bet he is not showing it in practice either with knowing the plays or playing with consistent effort, and Tijan does, so he plays. When you are developing a program like we are, you have to have those principals in place or why would anyone practice hard. Crean is definitely trying to send a message.

    5) Glad CTC was so upset about the defense. Multiple times we got beat down the floor and our bigs were not sprinting back. Notice that Watford was not in the game at the end, especially for a guy that can rebound and shoot the 3 in a smaller lineup? Maybe why.

    6) Rivers has zero shooting ability, not even from the FT line. Reminds me of Louis Monroe from a few years ago - tall, rebounder, can pass and guard, can drive, but otherwise not much a shooting threat.

    7) This team is improving with each game. CTC is definitely the right guy.
  • Kelin Blab
    Just heard Crean on Dakich.....
    Made some good points and reaffirms he is the RIGHT guy.

    - He says this team wants to win, believes they can win, but doesn't fully know how hard it is to win
    - Needs to learn how to 'capture momentum' (excellent point)
    - Says he is working on a way to get Elston and Wateford on the court together. Get Bobby C more time at the 4man and get Bawa on the court.
    - Said Pritchard had a GREAT practice but needs to figure out how to transfer that to games.
  • BFowler
    Throwing my thoughts in on the Bawa thing. Maybe, just maybe, Coach Crean is at practice, and he sees that Bawa is not where he wants him to be and is using the bench as a motivator for Bawa. I know he has mentioned that as something he wants to do - use the bench as a motivator. Maybe Tijan is working especially hard at practice and wants to reward him and show Bawa that you will get minutes if you outwork the other players at your position. Just speculating, but all we see is the game and whatever limited media coverage that Coach Crean allows us to see.
  • IUMIKE1
    Continuation of the format:

    The first thing that jumps out about this game is that we are still a long ways from where we have got to be on D. If not for Maryland missing alot of shots around the basket it could have been alot worse. You better believe that Patterson will not miss those when we play the Kentucky scum they will be demoralizing dunks if we play D the same way.

    Alley oops to TP.......more than once.......... REALLY ??!! At first I thought I was seeing things. If we are going to try something like that it damn sure needs to be to someone besids him. I don't mean to rag on TP but that is not how he can best help us win and as bad as I hate to say it we need him to play alot of meaningfull minutes which says alot about where we are as a team. I guess really the one at fault is the one that made the pass. TP had no choice but to try and go up and get it. Somehow I don't think he asked for it to be done nor do I think Crean called for that play. There should be a standing rule the rest of the season that anyone that tries that comes out of the game right away maybe for the rest of the game !!!

    On the half court O. I don't know if CTC was running some kind of zone O that didn't have someone flashing into the middle or if they just wouldn't do it. Can't remember more than one time when somebody did that. We have got to get to where we do the little things better like using and setting a screen correctly. We have got to get to the point where we know what we are going to do with the ball before it is passed so that we don't catch the ball, stand and look around, then figure out what we should do with it. This only allows for the defense to have time to adjust and take away options we might have other wise had. This too will get better as the freshman become more acclimated to the speed of the college game.

    JR does not seem to be able to hit a basket from any further out than 3 or 4 feet and is out of control or on the verge of being out of control too often. I know some of it is can be blamed on not having played with his teammates enough yet and their lack of experience but there are still too many mistakes that are his fault happening. Having 10 assists from your pg is really good but is somewhat deceiving if you don't look at how many to's he is making.

    Think Watford is finally starting to come into it. PR was a rude awakening for him but was maybe what he needed to realize the potential that he has. Think he will be a stud not too far done the road but it may be next year before that label can be put on him in a legit way.

    Mo Creek may be able to wear that label before this year is up !!! Love his aggresivness. May end up being the take charge guy this team so badly needs.

    Wonder more all the time why Elston should not be seeing more of TP minutes and maybe even starting.

    Is there anyone out there that doesn't wonder why Bawa isn't playing more. If he is our future in the big man department than he has to start playing more a whole lot more. Love CTC and his relentless pursuit of making us better but really don't understand this one guess that is why he has a lot more zeros on the end of the number on his paycheck than mine.

    Hulls may very well be JR's equal, overall game wise, by the end of the year and may need to start getting more and more of his minutes as the season goes on. A old very successfull coach once told me that when the FG % is figured that the number of turnovers should be figured in as missed shots because they are worse than a missed shot in that you didn't even get a chance to try and make it. If you look at it like that JR's turnovers are even more of a factor in who is playing the point. If Hulls' D was better he should and would be breathing down JR's neck for his minutes.

    And last but not least after the game I realized, in maybe the biggest way, that we are on the road, albeit slowly, to being a much better team when afer the game was over I remembered I had been yelling at the TV, sitting on the edge of my seat and smacking the arm of the recliner which I don't remember doing very much, if at all, last year. I have even gotten back to giving coaching advice at times.

    No one is more frustrated and wants to win big games more than me but be patient Hoosier fans and remember this is the first REAL year of our rebuilding and to get back to where we all want to be will be not be short or pain free. I am one of the biggest Crean fans/supporters out there and I don't agree with or understand everything he does but like I said he is the one making the big bucks for a reason just give him a justafiable amount of time to do the immense job that he was willing to undertake.
  • Marcus Gresham
    I know on one of the video posts Crean said Bawa is "just not ready", but he's as close as Jobe, and he can, given the opportunity, catch a pass. I've read all the things about Tijan, and I'm sure he's just as nice and intelligent as reported, but he is NOT a D-I basketball player, and with only 3 months left in his career I seriously doubt he will develop into becoming one. Bawa has 3 1/2 years to improve, so if they are on the same level why not give him a chance? Maybe we could even see the coach go "Twin Towers" (yes, I'm joking now!)
  • Kelin Blab
    IUMike....The bawa thing is beyond me. I use to be able to come up with answers but every time I came up with one, Tijan would be on the court, do nothing and then I would wonder what Bawa would have done with that same 3 minutes.

    I just don't know and for me, Bawa won't get any better on the bench. He doesn't play against cupcakes, good teams, and bad teams.....When does he play?
  • IUMIKE1
    This has to be the biggest " I just don't understand why " thing I have found with Tom Crean. I really wish, for the sake of IU fans everywhere, that he would give us a little more insight as to why he is not playing more espcially when it appears that he is not recruiting any other bigs and he intends for him to be our future in the middle.
  • MillaRed
    No doubt. To put it simply, how, for the love of goodness, can Bawa be worse than Jobe out there. It isn't possible.
  • it's Indiana
    Frustrating progress continues. It was good to see Watford talking to Dumes after his 3rd jacked three pointer. We'll keep pushing that boulder and eventually it's going to start moving, and gaining speed. It budged some tonight, maybe we can move it a little more against Pitt.

    I cringe when his is in, but I got pretty pumped when little Moore had the put in with contact. I forgive him for the free throw.

    Hang in there fellow ITH fans!
  • Another winnable game....missed free throws....missed layups....bad passes. Cruicial missed shots and poor shot selection was a major factor in our collapse. We should of beat Maryland. We should of beat Boston U. We should of beat George Mason. Should of is not good enough. We need to get these problems corrected. I'm ready to win.
  • CreamandCrimson
    I needed to wait a while before commenting because I wasn't sure how to feel. Trust me, I don't believe in moral victories. I was frustrated at the collapse in the final eight minutes and this was a winnable game.

    That being said, I do believe in progress. Jordan Hulls played well, Christian Watford looked awesome and Maurice Creek continues to be a solid scorer. The defensive pressure was lackluster and Pritchard and Dumes continue to struggle. Verdell Jones will play better, I am not worried about him.

    This was progress and I hope to see the same next Tuesday against Pittsburgh, this time with some tangible results. In my opinion, the restoration project took a step forward.
  • BaseballBuc
    Does anyone who has insider, know what school Selby cut from his list?
  • cooper
    Miami
  • hoosierodi
    First off, people jumping to the conclusion that Tom Crean was not the guy is just rediculous. With a young team of people that are used to doing things by themselves, its not easy for a coach to get them to do what he wants. They will learn over time that they can't just throw up a 3 that we can get any time, or that they aren't the only one that can score. Dumes is still stuck in this mode too. He was really our only major offensive threat last year, and he hasnt recognized, or adjusted his game.

    Now to the game:
    - I agree with many of you who were talking about the 2 alley-oop attempts to Pritchard
    - I liked Creek's energy, trying to pump up the crowd.
    - Watford played the best defense of anyone on the team.
    - Rivers is not a big time player yet, he needs to put this team on his shoulders
    - Saw Hulls yelling at Elston at some points when there were communication errors, hopefully he takes a leadership role.
    - Pritchard does not play good D. He is always lost, but on offense he does fine when he gets the ball, which is about 5 times a game if that. We NEED to get him the ball more if we wanna win.
    - Verdell still making some crazy passes.
    - Creek is a big time player, and Watford is getting there. That is gonna be one helluva duo soon.
    - I love Moore, he has the most energy on this team, and there really is very few disadvantages of having him in now considering he doesnt turn it over often anymore, and he made a layup with contact which was never the case last year.
    - Dumes makes a couple of nice plays, but then kills everything when he jacks up an unesecary 3's early in the shot clock. When he shoots within the offense he's fine because he does have really nice form.
    - Elston missed about 2304880 point blank put backs. I think he just wanted to get his rebounds up, but he kept just trying to tip it instead of landing then going up strong.
    - Another thing with rebounding on offense: EVERYONE who gets an offensive rebound always just throws it back up instead of kicking it out and settin up the offense.
    - Also, the play with Watford at the end of the half. He needs to improvise and realize that when 4 people collapse on him, that means someone is open and we either have an easy chip shot or a wide open 3.

    - I thought this was a very winnable game. I do not think Maryland is that good. If this game was maybe 3-4 games later in the season i think we would have won.
    - It really is frustrating to see how fast we fell apart in the end. We were up with about 7 minutes left maybe and from there it went dowwwwwn.
    - A lot of room for improvement though. Go Hoosiers!
  • MillaRed
    You are a wise Hoosier fan rodi. Nice post.
  • BornRed
    Not all that excited that Moore made one layup with contact. He also missed the and 1 free throw afterwards. He is not an offensive threat, and that is a big disadvantage because defenders can sag off and create problems for everyone else. Rivers might not shoot extraordinarily well, but at least he can beat you consistently if you let him get to the basket. Defense is probably worse. Moore can't hang with Division 1 guards - who could he realistically defend from Maryland? Another bench dweller? Maybe. I saw Daniel have trouble staying with a few of Howards guards.
  • hoosierodi
    i just like his energy, and he is much improved from last year.
  • BaseballBuc
    Does anyone who has insider know what school Josh Selby cut from his list?
  • aceman07
    I thought I read that it was Baylor but I'm not positive on that. My first thought was, "Baylor, really?" But it said he just decided not to visit there!
  • nathanzimmerman
    FT's FT's FT's.

    We shoot 'em like '07-'08 Memphis. Missed two crucial one-and-ones down the stretch that would have kept it close. It doesn't show up in the record book but that is 0-4. 4 points in a game that close can make the difference. They hit their one-and-one's and we didn't and that caused the seperation that finally broke our back. And layups, geesh...brutal.

    It's the little things!
  • Senior Citizen
    Daniel Moore is the most annoying player I have ever watched play Hoosier Basketball. I would rather watch five Ben Allen clones than one Daniel Moore. His "swagger" or "energy" he brings to the floor will NEVER benefit the swing of a game unless something freakish happens like Draymond Green snaps and decides to lay him out. He may work his tail off but how can anyone rally behind such a misguidedly arrogant player? He is like the real life version of Rudy without the blockbuster farce. Other than Tom Pritchard the team cannot possibly enjoy that kid as a teammate. While I'm taking cheap shots I might as well state how we all know Tom just exudes big program leadership with his huge frame attacking the rim with the tenacity of a Furby in heat.
  • Beth P
    You don't sound like a Senior Citizen to me.
  • BornRed
    I've never understood the Daniel Moore thing. Doesn't defend well, doesn't shoot well, doesn't handle the ball particularly well. He reminds me of a point guard I played with in junior high. Kid would dribble the ball around, drive the lane, have nothing to do and either 1. dribble all the way back out or 2. jump in the air, throw a bad pass, and turn the ball over. I've seen Moore do both.

    Had good seats last night and saw a couple things about Daniel. I was impressed by the way he positioned guys and saw things developing on one or two occasions. Mostly though, I was annoyed and embarrassed by the way he pouts when he gets called for a foul or something doesn't go his way.
  • maimlarry
    I can vouch for the freshman being tired. I was sitting on the floor, and at one point late in the game, I was watching Watford on defense and he just look exhausted. Hands on the hips, breathing heavy, the whole thing. But, there's improvement. Creek, Elston, and Watford are going to be big in the coming years. Hulls could also be a factor.
  • Marcus Gresham
    How many times can you make the atrocious decision to throw an alley-oop to Tom Pritchard? He has the vertical of a banana slug.
  • jgongora86
    I'm very encouraged about our team now. They played tough.

    -I'm not bothered by the fact we had trouble making baskets in the 2nd half. This comes with being a freshman and not having the ability to create better shots. As the season progresses this will improve especially from Elston.
    - Watford is growing up quickly. He was able to hold his own against MD's players by using his athleticism to create baskets down low.
    --VJIII is a turnover machine and needs to be benched. Thats the only way he will learn. I think he wants to be the star and is watching to much NBA footage of players driving in and scoring at will. It doesn't work that way in the college game.
    -The same for Dumes.
    - The turning point were we lost the game was when we missed two one in one free throws and Maryland made them pay by scoring and giving them a 6pt lead within a one minute time span.
    The freshman lost their hope as freshman do. That will change.
    - I really think the only reason why maryland was able to win by double digits was because our freshman got tired. By the time they are juniors enough talent will be there so they can get enough rest.
    -We need Tyler Zeller
    _ I still don't get why Bawa is not playing. He needs to play not because he's great right now but to build for the future. Get with it coach.
  • Kelin Blab
    J---
    I initially didn't support the we were tired thing some have said but thinking about it now, it could be the case. With Marylands Flex offense those guys were getting hit with all kind of screens and it took it's toll on them.

    You would have to sell me on zeller cause I just see him as that 3-4 tweener and not the inside guy we need more.

    I am really concerned about J Rivers ability to shoot, because I am convinced he can't...at all!

    FYI Everyone....Wateford will be on 1070 the fan here shortly....you can listen online as well...
  • Brian Evans
    kelin,

    worn out by a flex offense? this needs to be commented on.

    I thought our inability to guard a simple flex offense and our knack for getting picked on a simple flex cut was painful to watch. a flex offense is really quite easy to defend if you bump cutters and are positioned right on D. that being said, it tore us up. if we were tired or beat up, its our fault.

    i know we are a young team but any good HS team can take away a flex cut!! im not looking forward to playing wisconsin if we gave up so many easy shots to maryland's simple offense.
  • MillaRed
    JR can't shoot? What gave it away? The air ball 12 footer that missed by 3 feet? JR is kind of a dissappointment right now. Too many unforced TOs and no shooting. What did he work on in the off-season? Heck even Daniel Moore has hit a few threes.

    He can really be better. I'm wondering if he will be more in control in the second half of the season if not next year.
  • jgongora86
    If you really think about I believe our Freshman were the ones who contributed the most, and when I said they were tired, I was referring to the freshman. Our second year players still need lessons in fundamentals to be legit.

    I agree that Zeller is not your traditional post guy, but he can run real well. Crean wants his team to be a running team, and Zeller is the type of center who will be able to get a lot of easy baskets through Crean's type of offense.
    You are right about Rivers, but I was encouraged by Hulls's game. That was a beautiful pass he dished out to Watford. I hate how they compare him to MIchael Lewis, I think HUlls will be a lot better than that.
  • barry allen
    i think you missed the point of the late-game fouling. both crean and the players knew the game was over (just had to look at christian watford's embarrassed body language during that last minute "really, coach?"), but these guys are young and they need every bit of experience as possible--including the frenetic tempo of trying to catch up at the end. if i'm crean i tell them "our goal in the next minute is to get it down to 10" or whatever. he has to use every possible chance, and maryland was a good team to practice on, because they have quality players.
  • cooper
    Good:
    Best game IU has played in two years against decent competition. I don't know what Md. record will be but IU didn't look overmatched until the wheels fell off. Rivers is erratic but still the most complete player on the team. VJ was good and continues to play well. Obviously, needs to work on his handle.

    Bad:
    For some reason IU always has scoring droughts and seems they have since about 2000.

    Ugly:
    No one can convince me Pritchard belongs in D1 basketball. I've read what others put and I've waited to see something from him. He is not good, plan and simple. Besides setting a pick he can't do anything. No offense and no defense. I don't care how many rebounds it shows he gets, because he doesn't get any contested rebounds. I've never seen a guy who is 6'8'' that is barely able to jump to the rim. Elston should start over him, what he gives up in height he makes up for in athletic ability

    If those alley oop plays were set plays, then who ever drew them up must have been on drugs. Even if he catches the ball he cannot make it above the rim to dunk it.
  • nick
    i dont know about anybody else, but im sick of hearing all of the TP bashing. first and foremost, in principle, you dont hate your own teams players as much as i hear TP being hated on. nobody had a problem with him last year because we all knew he didnt have anybody down there with him to help him. newsflash, we still dont have a 7 foot beast (sorry tijan) or true center to help him with the bigger bodies, and no, elston doesn't count. he doesn't and cant play back to the basket.

    last night, i expected tom to have a big(ger) game. in the NW St. game, Pritchard looked like he didn't care anymore and that scared me. go back and watch the game again on espn 360 and you'll see him more fired up than ive ever seen him. he just still doesn't have the help that he needs to stay in ball games without fouling. i think he could have had a lot bigger game if he could have stayed on the floor without foul trouble, but again, when people go by their man (which happens regularly with our perimeter D) Pritchard is the last line of defense, leaving him prone to fouls.

    i'm not saying hes all big ten or even the best on the team, but the kid almost has no chance with the way our D works. but last night i saw a fire that i hadn't seen in pritchard since the non conference season last year. i expect that crean will find a way to get pritchard back to where he was against cornell last year, and as long as our d can be strong enough to keep slashers like vasquez out of the paint, TP will be able to stay in games longer and give more productive minutes.
  • cooper
    I don't hate him, I don't know him. You say not to "hate" on an IU guy, then you say he played like he didn't care, which is much worse than anything I said about him. I think he tries, he just isn't talented enough. Frankly, anyone can criticize any player they want for how they play. Doesn't mean people don't like the team or the school, its naive to think people wont criticize the team. Should we not have criticized Sampson or the players on the team then for their play?

    Don't think you can say he has no help either, Watford is 6'9'' and played well on both sides last night. Elston is 6'9'' and played better against the athletic competition than he did against GMU.

    The fire you saw last night lead to 2 pts, 4 fouls, and 4 rebounds in 25 minutes. Your making my point on getting him back to how he played against Cornell. He can play great against them because they are not athletic. He'd be a great fit on an Ivy League team.
  • Kelin Blab
    I am pretty sure I saw TJ Bell behind the bench last night decked out in IU gear.....
  • tberry
    Missed to many easy shots. Were to satisfied by "jacking" up shots over the zone. Try getting inside for a basket or a foul!!!
  • MillaRed
    I agree with most of this guys but honestly we just ran out of gas. When we got down by 3 it just steamrolled and they didn't have enough to get it back.

    I'm not going to challenge CTCs coaching ability yet, but I must ask.......

    If we are games losing anyway, why Jobe over Bawa? The guy needs experience. We will need him next year when Pritchard is hopefully spelling him off the bench. Does anyone see anything Tijan brings to the table? He can barely stay on his feet.

    This game was fun to watch for the first 3/4 of the game. Elston and Watford will be solid big men in time.
  • hooseyes
    Everyone is asking that question, and I wonder how long it will take to get an answer. Last year, and the first couple games of this season, Jobe was a gimmick... He could pump up the crowd because he was enthusiastic and everyone was generally aware that he wasn't talented enough to do much, but seeing him run out on that court and swing those big arms around coupled with the thought of actually seeing him do something positive (throw down a big dunk, block a shot) was enough to get us pumped up and cheering... That feeling is no longer there... Its been replaced by a collective moan when he steps on the court, a questioning of Crean's sanity, and the inevitable sourness that accompanies the realization of what we still are: a relatively bad team still lacking depth, athleticism, and talent especially up front that must rely on guys like Jobe to come in and hopefully do more good than bad. What a difference an offseason of expectations makes...
  • HoosierCrabbe
    This is not me bashing on Tom Crean, because i absolutely love where our program is going. But at what point do we hold him accountable for how horrendous we are from the free throw line? I realize that we shot better before yesterday, but missing back to back front ends of a 1 and 1 is inexcusable. With such a weak (but improving) team in almost every aspect, shouldn't we be able to pick up the FREE points that they give us?
  • HoosierDavey
    I have no statistics to back this up, but it seems like we haven't had good FT shooting in a long time, under Davis, the guy who will remain nameless, or Crean. Not sure why that is, because we've had some quality shooters during that time.
  • Kelin Blab
    First Congrats to me for my 1000 comment....strictly a sign I have too much free time or I just love ITH and IU...or BOTH.....

    Having looked at the game minus the emotions here is what I know:

    1. Crean is the RIGHT guy. I cannot say with some other coach (Knight, Painter, Roy Williams etc.) the outcome last night would have been different with the same team. Crean is building a program that was DEAD. I don't think alot of IU fans accept the fact that IU was DEAD...walk ons, baseball players, and managers! DEAD

    1b. I look at the recruits Crean is bringing in and see if they could have helped. Surely with 'athletes like Oladipo and Sheehey next year we can convert on some of those alley oops and have guys that can finish at the basket. Rivers is our BEST athlete on the team, then maybe our walk on dunk contest winner. Creek Wateford Elston all good athletes but NOT finishers....like the guys from Mason, KY, etc.

    TRIVIA: How many dunks have IU gotten in past 4 games? (I know it isn't about dunks but I am stressing we need finishers)

    2. This team has some good pieces that need to get better and it will take patience. I have committed myself to not get upset about making a post season tourney until 2011 or 2012, when these guys are upperclassmen.

    3. No offense to Zeller, but IU needs a back to the basket short jumper shooting strong post player. I don't know what has happened to pritchard, I believe he works hard, but I have yet to see him make himself available on the block as wateford did last night and elston.

    4. Finally.....Selby or Teague gives IU that higher level of talent to expedite the comeback of this program, otherwise we must be patient....
  • IUDan
    Good points all . . . I especially agree with #4 - as we were having trouble vs. that zone, I kept thinking that I hoped Selby was watching and seeing himself losing his defender, getting in the middle, and making things happen there. It doesn't look like Rivers is that guy - maybe not quite quick enough, but otherwise, it would seem like he would be - he's athletic, big and strong . . .
  • It seemed like, at times, they were pushing the fast break too hard. This is probably an artifact of not having confidence in the half-court set. It just seemed like Verdell Jones was driving to the hole with three guys draped on him when it would have made more sense to back it out and reset the offense.
  • Disco_Briscoe
    I can finally comment on a game since I finally watched one start to finish. Watford and Creek are legit and need to be on the floor as much as stamina and fouls permit. Rivers must be out there for leadership but Hulls did a great job filling in and running the offense as a freshman. Elston looked a little lost at times but showed a lot of promise. Jones is solid should be in the lineup (starting).

    Jobe and Moore should never be in the game unless the game is lopsided. Why are we playing what is essentially two walk-ons in a close game? Dumes needs to come in play D and know his role. He isnt good, wasnt good, and needs to be an efficient player off the bench. Face it Dumes you're not Creek and this isn't JUCO. I dont know what Pritchard did in the offseason but he looks just as (un)athletic as he did last year...slow and no vert (No more lobs / alleys!).

    Coaching was not too good tonight either. Williams adjusted, Crean did not. We couldn't defend any pick/screen. The rotations with subs were horrible (ex Jobe and Moore) and untimely ( ex Creek sitting too long). The offensive sets were weak.

    What we need next year / soon (wish list)...A physical/athletic player that can play above the rim. Oladipo is the athlete but I wouldn't mind and the team needs a 6'8'' type like Lance Stephenson - Cinci (I'd even take Terps - Milbourne/Williams) and a new strength and conditioning coach/program. At times we looked like we were jumping (going after boards) and running with lead shoes on.

    Fan support was awful! National game, national competition and the place looked/sounded empty. All you fans that have tickets and can go to the games...you don't get recruits that way!
  • Kelin Blab
    Disco you are 100% right, and 0% wrong about the student section. I would not name our student section anything just yet as they have not made a difference thus far. Some kids are there on time, but I was really embarassed for the team that they could not get a full house for this game. I would not be surprised the KY game is the same way early..........
  • hooseyes
    I really wonder why the student section has become like this... Even during denim shirt's truncated stay (when the expectations of winning every game were legitimate), the student section was slow to fill up... although its not like there weren't empty seats in the general admission and alumni sections either, i would like to see the athletic dept make student seating first come, first serve... I remember going to games with my older brother during the Davis era and getting there early to watch warmups, and the student section was often more full for warmups than it is now for tipoff. I've had tickets 4 out of my 5 years as an undergrad and now in my first year as a grad student and i'm tired of getting to the games early to sit in the balcony while the main level struggles to fill... I can't say that i've never missed or been late to a game, but i would gladly trade a better seat for a better atmosphere when i can't be there to defend my turf...
  • Kelin Blab
    hoosyes I didn't know it was like that with the student section....I may have to drop a line to the AD about that and how bad it looks........
  • IUDan
    Agree with many of the comments on here. One thing I keep reminding myself: this is really year 1. last year was very throw-away . . . short of Jones and TP (and Rivers on the bench), we had very little to build on. Someone commented that the freshmen were the ones stepping up, and that is absolutely true . . . so we need to be patient.

    Remember that most of these guys are still learning how to play the college game - so while they are all learning a new offense, many are still learning the basics . . . so hard to talk about "adjustments" when they are still getting down the fundamentals.

    Though frustrating, every time I watch it seems like we get a little bit better . . . hopefully that continues.

    But it's still really, really early here to expect great results.
  • BFowler
    Sticking with the theme:

    Good I saw: We actually hit some big shots about mid-way through the second half. Dumes hit a big three to take the lead, Creek looked like he wanted the ball in his hands and did not look like a deer in the headlights, Hulls played well, I thought, Watford looked good at times. Jones drove well. The potential was there tonight, I think they are a piece or two away from being really, really solid.

    The Bad I saw: This team does not have an identity. There is nothing they can hang their hat on. They are not a defensive team, they are not a three-point shooting team, they are not a fast-breaking, run-at-all-costs team, what exactly are they? We are too out of control to play at break-neck speed, we are not showing the shooting to rely on outside shots, there is no post presence, and we do not defend inside or out.........Did anyone else notice Creek and Watford arguing there on the FT lane after Creek fouled the rebounder on the other end? I felt they should have huddled up and took care of it and let the frustrations go, but they were yelling at each other on the lane......I also noticed that they interviewed Coach Crean and he said that the first TWO years are really just feeling things out. It sounds like he is trying to temper expectations.

    The UGLY I saw: Student section, C'mon this is not the OTHER assembly hall. Who do you think you are, the orange krush? Stay classy Bloomington.....The defense was pitiful. I kept thinking, why doesn't the post defender hold up those cutters, bump 'em, put a hand out, hedge, do something......We still can not finish inside. TP needs to learn he can not jump over people, he needs to learn to use his body better. Throw a jump hook, put a shoulder into the defender, or use the rim for protection; you can't jump over the athletes in D-1......The wall - it weemed like the players hit a wall with about 7 minutes to go and could not perform well in any phase of the game.

    Finally, I want to say that this was a frustrating loss primarily because I thought a few made shots would have turned this into a win. Giving up 80 points to this Maryland team, who did not look unbeatable last night, was very frustrating to watch especially when you consider the easy shots they continued to get. That being said, there has been an improvement the last couple of games over what I saw in PR and I think by the end of the season, this will be a team no one will want to have to beat for a tournament berth.
  • peaychris
    its really hard for me to watch this team try and create a shot in the half court set... it seems everyone just stands around and then dumes throws up a 25 footer.. i really like mo creeks offensive talents but he and watford cant do it alone... this is where selby would help us out a TON next year!!
  • DJ5
    Greg - not sure who Maryland's "superstar" hurt center is. You could be talking about Dino Gregory, but he is a 6"7" energy guy who gives them some quality minutes off the bench. And he has been suspended indefinitely for alleged "academic dishonesty." But calling him a superstar is like calling Pritchard an All-American.
  • hammer
    To many times these guys played out of control! Trying to move the ball too fast and too many passes when they are up in the air and nothing to do with the ball! Clam down but these are freshman--They need time and the coaching will help them later down the road.
  • Druid
    I'm curious as to why Coach Crean didn't draw up some plays to break the zone. Instead we passed the ball around the arc until time was running out then jacked up a 25 foot shot. However I did see some bright spots on our team in Watford, Creek, and Elston. With a years experience under their collective belts, they will be very good. Go Hoosiers
  • widget
    How about defense? I'm thinking 3 feet was the average shot distance Maryland had last night. We had HUGE gaps in defense at the low post. Sure, we had lapses in offense, but allowing a team like Maryland to get the post position they did was pretty bad indeed. Imagine the likes of Ohio State, MSU and the rest with that D.

    Yikes.
  • Will
    There was a couple minute stretch around the 8 minute mark that both Creek and Watford were on the bench. That just cant happen and i dont know what Crean was doing. IU never led again after that stretch. Creek and Watford can NEVER be on the bench at the same time, minus foul trouble.
  • DMJ
    The only way to shake off this loss was to hit my Roor. So I got to sitting here, mind flying to another planet, and thinking maybe Tom Crean isn't the right guy. I don't want to believe that's actually the case but looking at his past, he really wasn't as successful as some people seem to be willing to think he is and crown him as a God. I want to be be wrong, but he seems all talk He can recruit and get support and other stuff but can he coach a basketball team in practice and during a game? Can he make adjustments? Can he really save us? Is 1202 real?
  • BornRed
    I don't question Crean to that level at this point. However, I was frustrated that he couldn't get the guys to even challenge the zone. Tossing the ball around the perimeter for 30 seconds before you jack up a bad 3 or outside shot is not a zone offense. Why didn't they attack the zone? The bigs flashing to the posts were slow and looked exhausted late in the second half. If that's not going, why not get Rivers or VJ3 to at least try to penetrate and open something up?
  • aceman07
    Don't get too concerned because you are wrong. Coaches like Crean and Bo Ryan and Gary Williams who not only win, but sustain winning traditions at second tier schools like Wisc, Maryland, and Marquette can only be great coaches. We look at what RMK did at Indiana and we're in awe and rightfully so. But, let's not forget that he took over a program with a rich basketball history and who had already won two national championships. He came from Army where he was successful at a school that obviously wasn't known as a basketball powerhouse. He did have a losing record his final season at Army. I wonder if you guys were alive then to compare him to Branch and question his ability to coach at Indiana. Just look at the obvious and stop being so pessimistic. He took over a down in dumps program at Marquette and became a final four team while recruiting NBA caliber players and a star in Dwayne Wade. Give him a chance before you give up on him. We don't have any idea what he's doing over there on the sideline. Everything he's doing (including substituting like a mad man) may be setting the team up for success later in the season. Let's just wait and see and remain realistic.
  • As the 2nd half progressed I found myself considering the same things. Where are the adjustments? Can Tom Crean really coach in games? Does he over-coach and needs to sit down and let his young team find there rhythm? The sporadic substitutions? I have been a huge Crean supporter, but some of these questions are creeping into my mind. I going to try and have patience he obviously knows far more than I do (just compare our paycheck stubs). What I do know is I will be going to Wal-mart after work, because my remote control did not make it through the night, angry over the fact this was a game they gave away.
  • Kelin Blab
    I will get this bit off my chest then get some sleep:

    The GOOD....
    1. Got free parking tonite and didn't have to pay $10
    2. Hulls played very sound when rivers went out
    3. VJ3 was more aggressive on Offense
    4. Saw an attempt to work the ball inside
    5. Continued to be aggressive and draw fouls
    6. This team seems to play with some confidence

    The BAD/UGLY.....
    1. This team is tough to watch because of the dumb mistakes that are STILL being made....some of the passes make no sense.
    2. Why are we throwing alley oops to Pritchard
    3. J. Rivers can't shoot beyond 5 feet. An ok zone without matt roth is effective against us
    4. At the starting lineups......AH 60% full, the game started at 7:30 and it was PATHETIC that people were not there at the beginning of the game.
    5. This is one instance where I am putting this on the TEAM. This was a game IU should have won and pissed it away. You cause a veteran team to have 20 Turnovers and you outrebound them and still lose AT HOME!
    6. I don't what defense IU can play. Man to Man was bad, the zone was worse. The Flex offense is run in Middle and H.S. and I have seen it defended better than it was tonite. Too much trailing on picks....
    7. Is Tijan Jobe the leader of this team? My first game at AH this year and Tijan is leading the pregame intro's....WHAT? Nothing against Tijan, but when will Rivers, Dumes, or Elston or someone step up and get in someone's face. Freshmen or Sophmore, I don't care someone has to be the 'GUY' on this team. Personally I would rather it be Hulls, the kid is a winner, he knows the game, he is the PG, and I have seen him do it at BHS......
  • CutterInChicago
    Oy, you made me recall the 2 attempted alley-oops to Pritchard... those were complete head scratchers. TP isn't a guy that says "alley-oop-able"
    Agree with the late arriving crowd. From where I was, looked like it was generally students coming in late.
  • tberry
    The same in Football. Students are always bitching about no student seating but then are to lazy to make it to the game or come in late!!!
  • BornRed
    I was fortunate enough to be in the Hall for this one. Students get the bad rap for being late, but I also see a fair number of the general crowd come in late as well. I know we have a big student section, but (feel free to check my numbers) I'm not sure they even make up half of Assembly Hall anymore. Here's the point, the majority of students sit in the balcony or under the overhang, if there are spaces from rows 1 to about 25, that's nearly all alumni seating.

    The truth is that students have bad seats for half the season. I don't care what school it is and what history you have, you just are not going to fill up those balcony seats with a 6 win team on the floor.
  • JWL47630
    I can't speak for anyone but myself, obviously, but I had class until 7. I figured my best bet would be to take the bus to the stadium then walk to Assembly Hall. I waited and waited and the bus got there 15 minutes after the scheduled time. The bus then waited at the light at Indiana and 10th for nearly 10 minutes and there were also a sizable number of students that were also going to the game on the bus. I didn't get inside the Hall until about 7:35.

    I'm not complaining, (I probably should have walked and the traffic isn't anyone's fault) I'm just saying that there's a lot more to students showing up late than a lack of support for the team.
  • BornRed
    I agree. There was a year I had a required class that ended at 6:30ish every Tuesday and Thursday. People blow this off as if it's a rare few that have late classes. I'm not saying it's the majority and I'm not saying it's the only reason students aren't there on time. My parents went to IU in the late 70s and early 80s and they always remark about how many late classes there are, and they can't believe we have exams on weekends and late at night outside of class. They just didn't do that back then. Maybe it's generational gap thing, as much as alumni have trouble getting down during the week because they work, students have classes.
  • CutterInChicago
    And I certainly do not mean to knock students who could not get there on time due to classes or other obligations nor do I want to knock alums and other fans who due to work or other obligations could not get there for the tip. Part of the reason it seems noticeable that there was a late arriving student crowd is the fact that students tend to arrived and/or be seated in large clusters.
    As for folks leaving early, that's likely an unfortunate fact of life especially when you are behind in double digits. Based on the exit strategy shown by the parking folks (a plan that makes Afghanistan look like a picnic) I am not sure why folks leave early since you are going to be sitting in the lot until Fish and Leary are done with the post-game...
  • BAM
    All you who complain about students getting to the games late apparently never went to college or completely forget college life. I remember having class till 5 sometimes 6 p.m., having to race home, meeting up with my crew, downing a few brews, fighting through traffic to get to the Hall, then walking a half mile because we couldn't afford to pay to park. Yes, we arrived after the game started on occassion....I don't ever remember leaving early however.
  • BaseballBuc
    This may be a surprise to some people,but I think I know a way Indiana wins this game. His name is MATT FREAKING ROTH! Imagine when Maryland went to the zone, indiana couldn't buy a basket let alone a three. Matt Roth would come in and light it up and maryland would of switched back to man to man and indiana wins the game. I am not really saying we would of won with him, but it would of helped.
  • widget
    If our response to a simple zone D is to jack 3's, then we will see a repeat of last year. Plain and simple.
  • tberry
    Take it inside for a basket or a foul and then make the foul shots...could mean lots of points!!!
  • Problem is, IU doesn't have a capable inside scorer. This also worries me for next year, as it doesn't look like that issue will be fixed, unless Bawa has a miraculous development next summer.
  • Greg
    the good: maryland's ability to miss wide open layups allowing us to keep it close. elston. rivers.

    the bad: the hoosier usual: Tom Pritchard, turnovers, missed free throws, defensive lapses

    the ugly: our offense and defense. without lights out shooters or a legitimate inside scorer, zone is the way to defend us, we showed it tonight with our tendency to jack threes or turn it over. and our defense is just plain bad at times. since when did hustling on defense equal diving for loose balls that you have no chance of getting, leaving yourself and your team out of position. we do this all the time, especially when we get down significantly, instead of staying home, getting in front of our man, and playing help side defense, we take silly risks and get burnt. we definitely have the heart, but defensively it doesn't look like we are fundamentally sound enough to play 40 min.

    I love this blog, but seriously, do we have to patty-cake around after every game and look for positives that aren't there.

    Examples:
    Please stop comparing with last years team! A team with 4 marquee recruits + rivers HAS to be way better than last years team, and we shouldn't take comfort in the bare fact we are better than last years team. That has to be a given. Instead, I hope to see a team playing to or above it's talent level, in my mind, this has yet to be seen. though i have hope that we could be there by the end of the year.

    Also, Maryland is a top 25 team with their superstar center who is hurt. without him, they are coming off 2 embarrassing losses to lesser opponents in Maui. so, why can't we be honest and say we stuck with a mediocre acc team, who, without their center, is not close to a top 25 team.

    Sorry to gripe, honesty is all i want. I just do not see a team playing to it's potential right now and don't see why hoosier fans are so afraid to face the facts and so eager to take solace in meaningless comparisons and statistics. we aren't the most basketball literate fanbase in the world for nothing!!!!
  • CutterInChicago
    A lot of very valid points there Greg. Maryland was especially sloppy in the first half (12 TOs but only 6 in 2nd) and allowed us to remain close. Their main guys also did not shoot well which also allowed us to remain close and they were missing key personnel. Rivers in particular had some defensive lapses that were inexcusable and he can't shoot free throws or jump shots (so I can't give him a "good" but he had a sweet reverse layup at the beginning of the game, where he hurt his back and a nice rejection later). Clearly, zone defense is the best way to defend us. Our half court offense is a work-in-progress.

    However, seeing these guys tonight in person actually made me see a glass half full and that could be due to the fact that last year set the bar so low and/or I have "battle fatigue" which makes anything other than a blowout look good to me. I think what I am seeing is potential and growth with this team and that is an exciting, positive thing after a long time of nothing but negative news/events with the team.

    Pittsburgh and Kentucky will be interesting...
  • CutterInChicago
    The Very Good: It was my first game at the Hall this year.

    The Good: A solid first-half. Watford and Creek are going to be very good. Hulls looked pretty steady. We were never "out" of the game. Tom Crean going off on the student section's profane and vulgar chants.

    The Bad: Jones, Elston and Dumes a combined 7-of-35 from the field (though Elston and Jones tried to makeup for it with rebounds). If Dumes can figure out a way to get back in control and rhythm, we could have some solid scoring options with Creek, Watford, Jones and Dumes. Free throw shooting remains suspect.

    The Ugly: Missed a lot of bunnies. A large amount of students using profanity and vulgarity in their chants. I swear like a salior but come on, you are in college... come up with some creative heckling. Bob Knight did not tolerate it. Maybe its the influx of all the east coast students they have been recruiting because it felt like a Yankees game with the crude chants.

    Overall, I thought we played pretty well and that we are light years ahead of last year.
  • chicago_alumn
    there is going to be a learning curve for our young freshman. the only difference between this year and last year is that as the season goes along, we will actually win some of the tough games because our talent level is just so much better with our current freshman than last years group. today was a BIG improvement from puerto rico and things are looking up.
  • smithemmit33
    I was proud of this young Hoosier team tonight. Poor shooting aside, they held their own against a good team. Keep up the progress!
  • aceman07
    You know, we could take one positive from this game and that's our offensive possessions. We had 20 offensive rebounds and 15 more shots than Maryland. The talk going into the game was how Maryland doesn't turn the ball over and IU does so Maryland would have more offensive possessions and IU could fall behind early. That didn't happen! We turned Maryland over 18 times and only turned it over 16 times. That has to be a positive, right?
  • West Coast Hoosier
    Does anybody notice that the freshmen and new players this year are carrying the load and the players who were here last year are having trouble?

    Watford and Creek and Elston and Rivers are doing well.

    Dumes and Pritchard and Moore and Jobe and even the best of the group, VJ III, are not doing so well.

    Tonight, the "new guys" scored 50 and the "old guys" scored 18.

    And, that makes some sense. Remember, the new guys are the ones who were more highly rated out of high school.

    A team where the bulk of the power is from "new guys" is going to have trouble - probably until late in the season.

    One can hope that the old guys will find a way to contribute and the new guys will keep on learning and performing. The team will get better. In fact, it has more room for improvement than most.

    Patience is a virtue for a reason.
  • aceman07
    I'm having a hard time understanding why everyone is blind to the fact that VJ3 has played well. Week in and week out I read posts commenting on his lackluster play and I'm not sure these commentators are paying attention to the game this year. VJ3 struggled really for the first time for a whole game last night. He's the third leading scorer on the team at 11.4 ppg and the fourth leading rebounder at 4.0 rpg, not to mention the fact that he has 22 assists and only 15 turnovers. Compare that to the rest of the guards and see how "poorly" he's playing this year?

    It is very frustrating watching these Hoosiers hang around in games and then give it up at the end because this year I see the talent to maybe win a few of those games, but I'm staying realistic. I look on the floor and see a bunch of freshman and sophomores who just aren't used to this level of competing for 40 minutes at the college level. They're out there giving it all they have and killing themselves and you could just see them hit the wall last night. Missing free throws down the stretch can be (not always, but can be) attributed to tired legs or weary minds and it was obvious that the defensive quickness and execution started to fade the last 7 minutes of the game. We ended the game a step slower than Maryland but how could we expect anything less at this point. That's why I think we'll win a few games in the Big Ten this year that we aren't supposed to win because halfway through the season or so, these freshman and even sophomores will be used to going all the way and they'll hold up better and pull a few games out at the end.

    "Progress" is definitely a good word to describe this game and this team!
  • West Coast Hoosier
    I would agree with aceman07 that VJIII is the best of last year's crop.

    But I don't think that one can fairly say that shooting 3 for 15 along with the other errors he made in the Maryland game is playing "well." At least for this game, if I were grading players on a scale, I wouldn't grade him as having played "well."

    Heck, if he had made over half of his shots, I think we could have won the game!

    My original comment was based on the fact that the new players, and particularly Creek, Watford and Elston have played pretty well and pretty consistently, and to the extent they haven't, they've got the excuse that they're freshmen.

    And I might not grade Rivers and Hulls as high as those three, but I would say that Rivers and Hulls have played fairly well. By the way, parenthetically, I also suspect that Rivers has some health problems that are restraining his performance, but that's just a gut feeling - and I'm on the West Coast, so I have absolutely no knowledge!

    Bottom line? VJIII seems to me to be someone who has improved a lot and has the potential to turn out to be really good. I hope he achieves that and has a great career for himself and his school. I hope he is our leading scorer!

    I just think we were carried in the Maryland game by our new guys.

    And, most important, I think we should all continue to support them.
  • aceman07
    No I agree and said that this was his first really bad game but at least he was still aggressive. He is the one player of the returning players who always seems to put the ball into a scoring position or at least try. I agree with you completely that as long as the three freshman are leading the team without some help from the returning players we're just going to see a repeat of last night over and over again.
  • BigRed3588
    22 to 15 is not a good assist-turnover ratio, especially for a player that often runs the point. The only thing Jones has done this year is hit a few mid range jumpers and make stupid decisions. And as for youth, how do you explain Mich. St. in the national champ. game last year and Memphis at the champ. the year before that? I realize our freshman don't quite have that level of talent, but they're clearly good enough to compete. And they definitely should have been able to pull that game out.

    Also, is anyone else tired of watching Dumes suck? And I don't wanna hear, "Oh he had a bad night," because he wasn't just missing, he was making some stupid, stupid decisions. I mean, the guys a senior... he should know better by now. Needs to be riding the bench until he figures out hes not gonna be the star
  • aceman07
    First, Michigan St. was lead (by the leadership sense of the word) by two seniors last year and even Memphis had a couple key returning upperclassman on their runner up team. The only team I can remember that was led to anything significant by all Freshman was the Fab 5 Michigan team and let's face it, that was a very special recruiting class. We don't have anyone who has 3-4 years running CTC's system on our team and apparently nobody who is ready to take over the role as leader. VJ3 is the closest to a team leader I see on the floor because he always tries to put the ball into a position where it can be scored and that's the name of the game. He remains aggressive the entire game when other young players seem to get lost or go into long lulls and that's why I think people are too hard on him. Also, he has hardly played the "point" position this year and I've watched every game. He's had the ball on at the top of the key some but during obvious sets designed for him to drive the ball. He hasn't been expected to be the catalyst. 22 and 15 is good when you consider our point guard has 31 and 28 and VJ3 went for 100 and 99 on the season last year. Improvement is what we're asking out of this team and I can't see how anyone doesn't see the obvious improvement VJ3 has shown this year.
  • I agree with you for the most part on the players from last year struggling the most, except for VJ III. He has been one of the most consistent players this early season, this game just had a bad shootin one .
  • widget
    True. I'm having a hard time watching Jobe defend from (literally) under the tin. And while it seemed Jones was the only guy willing to crash the Terps zone, it was often followed by a turnover.

    It frustrates me because I saw this as a game we should have won.
  • coachv
    not only is jobe too far under the basket, but he plays defense in a constant crouch, as if he were a guard playing on the ball 40 feet from the basket. players are consistently shooting over him because of that. 7 footers should play as tall as possible. stand up tijan! coach him up crean!
  • Do you mean you thought coming into the game it was one that IU should have won, or you mean during the game we had the chance to win and should have but let it slip away?

    I ask because I don't see how any game this season, especially off the heels of Puerto Rico, against a tournament team from last year is one we "should win". I know Maryland has had struggles, but many picked them as a top 25 team coming into the season, not sure why IU should have been expected to win this game.
  • widget
    I think we should have won this game based on the fact that, with a lead, we lapsed into "self-inflicted wound" mode. Consecutive trips that resulted in unforced errors (turnovers) and defensive trips in which, time and time again, we gave Maryland near-uncontested lay-ups.

    Maryland played badly and we played worse. At home, we should have beaten them. We got to the precipice of victory and retreated once again. IU has yet to play to it's potential.
  • Ok, so to answer my question you were referring to in-game when you said "we should have won".

    IMO Maryland was in control for much of the second half, we messed up the chance to make it a close game with a chance to win. I never felt in the second half IU was in control or that IU gave away a game they should have won.

    I thought that trip where we missed two front-ends from the foul line was the game-changer.
  • Viva La Youth Movement
    I agree with Widgets point here... Once we got into the game, specifically at about 7 minutes to go in the first half, we should have won this one. The worst part of it is, it had nothing to do with our Youth. The Youth on our team almost pull it out for us. The game, while not lost, started to go badly at around the 5 minutes to go in the first half when CTC didn't seem to care or notice that Two Dumes step back 3's and a Turnover from VJIII officially took a crowd full of excitement and a team that was up 6 with a chance to make it 8 or 9, turned into Maryland hitting a 3 cutting it to 3, then eventually went on to take the lead before half off of these plays. Why are we putting up with that. We played 25 minutes of solid basketball in which we were the better team. Take out the last 5 of the first half with the aforementioned Dumes crowd killing, and the first and last 5 minutes of the second half that were first putting in Tijan and Daniel Moore after we had brought the game back, then another strike of VJ3 and Dumes not caring about the ball at all and wasting posessions, and we would have won.

    Why should we not expect more from this team or Tom Crean? The Youth that has been our excuse, will makemistakes, but I'm okay with that, its when they don't but we take them out and put in guys who should know better in, and they make mistake after mistake, that I get a sick feeling in my stomach. There was some very questionable substitutions and allowed shots in that game that I think really hurt us when we had momentum. Not Happy about it.
  • Bryan
    Agreed, especially given that the offense this year is brand new, which eliminates most of the experience edge that the returning players would normally have over the freshmen.
  • HoosierDavey
    Last year, we lose a game like this by 25+...progress yet again. Keep workin' at it, boys!
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