Great! I really like this kid. He has a chance to be special wherever he goes. Hopefully hoosier hysteria will seal the deal.

I am in the belief he is more of a MUST GET than Zeller or Plumlee.

I have been hot on this kid like Kelin was on KI. J Davis is the real deal, he does the little things most star players don't. Roll out the crimson carpet!

Is the J.Davis comparisons to Derron Williams or Chauncey Billups accurate? I have seen zero highlights of JD.....but have heard really good things.

Maybe this is unfair, but I'd liken him to Eric Gordon on several levels - physicality getting to the rim and finishing, plays hard on defense, rebounds well. Differences would be minus a few inches in height, not as good of an outside shooter or pure leaper, but better ball handling, distribution, and leadership. Way better than DSR. Maybe Derron Williams is not a bad comparison, Jeremiah needs to work on his shot more for that to be a fair comparison. He seems very teachable, so I think he comes with some upside as well. He's the kind of kid that get's it, he doesn't seem too high on himself.

I have been on the J. Davis bandwagon, as well. I actually would prefer having him for 3 years than Irving for 1. That may be crazy-talk on my part, but I tend not to buy in to the hype of elite high school players. I end up being wrong ALOT, but I'm a naturally cynical person like that. Cynicism aside, I just tend to want greater stability in the roster in the rebuilding process than gaining and losing guys rapidly. I understand that guys like Irving can speed up the rebuilding process in some ways, but my fear is that we spent too much time wooing guys like him, and making last minute overtures to Selby, instead of locking down Davis earlier.

I like our chances here.

just reading "hoosier hysteria" makes me excited for the season, my starters.....rivers, creek, jones, dumes and elston or watford, elston, creek, jones and rivers or or hulls, watford, creek, jones and bawa or maybe watford, elston, bawa, creek and rivers ...hmmmmm. ok kelin, bgleas (others) i wanna know your ideas

Hey Craig,

I was reading your post with my head spinning, nice to actually be discussing basketball instead of recruiting. I worry about Elston playing center. If he was a junior or senior with some experience, maybe he could pull it off, but I don't as a freshmen he can handle the grind himself. I think you gotta put Pritch in there.

I think the keys to IU being a 10-13 win team or a 13-17 win team are Creek, and to a lesser extent, Bawa. If Creek can beat out Dumes and VJIII then we're in pretty good shape. To me it means Creek is legit, because we know Dumes and VJIII can play. If Bawa can be a legit contributor this year, then to me that changes the whole deal.

I think the fun early season battles to watch will be Creek, VJII and Dumes pretty much fighting it out for that 2-guard spot, assuming Watford is ready to go from the start.

Ok, I've drug this on to much, I'll go: Rivers, VJIII, Watford, Elston, Pritch, or Rivers, Creek, VJIII, Watford, Pritch.

BGleas

Did we have a conversation that I don't remember ? Agree with everything you said. The rotation at guard will sort itself out as the season goes on but I also think alot hinges on how much of a contribution Bawa can give us. On your starting lineups I think both are right in that which one of those groups starts the game will be determined by the opposing team and what they have on the floor. Crean still does not have enough of the right pieces to do exactly what he might want to do in any given situation. Not that he does not have the right players just that they don't have actual college game minutes under their belts yet. No substitute for that kind of thing.

I like Dumes coming off the bench because I want Creek and VIII to gain the necessary experience. If one of them is cold pull the trigger for some instant offense.

I'm 100% sure Rivers starts and I just can't see Pritchard or Watford on the bench. The result is the 4 guard rotation Crean loves. Think about how fresher these guys are going to be this season. 8 games decided by the final posession last year and we win 1? Can you say FATIGUE!

Pritch is important, I guess I was depending on Rivers for leadership, experience and a guiding hand to bring these guys together. We need more minutes!! Keeping Creek out of the starting lineup may be impossible. We can win 18 and the NIT. I am a true believer!!

Thats a good line up but i had Rivers VJ3 Creek Watford and Pritch, just for a faster unit, but looking at what you guys had seem perfectly reasonable to me

I would like to see a starting lineup of Hulls, Creek, Watford, Elston, and Pritchard. That is not what will happen just what I would like to see.
Rivers, Roth, Jones getting the most of the bench minutes. I would like to keep most of the minutes with these 8. Again not what I think will happen , but what I would like to happen.

Don't forget about Dumes in the starting lineups. He is our returning leading scorer, the one with the most collegiate experience, has the best 3 pt % from last year (yes, better than Matt Roth), and a very good defender. VJIII excelled most last year when he realized he could back a shorter PG guarding him into the lane and score over him. Although I hope I'm wrong, I'm not yet convinced he can do this with a usually taller SG on him.

My biggest reason for not wanting Dumes in the starting lineup is that it means Creek and/or VJIII beat him out. We know Dumes is capable of being a leading scorer on the team, so if Creek and VJIII beat him out it means they're progressing and stepping their games up, which is good for the whole team. I also think Dumes could be a great scorer off the bench, sort of like Ben Gordon when he was 6th Man of the Year for Chicago.

Dumes is a senior, on a mission, Alex needs to tell us how hard he has worked this summer

Even more of a reason that I think if Creek and/or VJIII can beat him out, then we'd have a much better chance of reaching your 18-win prediction above. If Dumes is an improved senior on a mission and Creek is talented enough and VJIII improved enough to beat him out, then we really have some excitement for this season.

I'm not suggesting handing the job to Creek or VJIII, I mean if they actually beat him out.

Wish I could, but I don't attend his workouts.

sorry Alex, I guess I expect you to know all things IU basketball, your starting 5?

To start the season, I'm going Rivers, Jones, Dumes, Watford and Pritchard.

I think it will be Rivers, VJIII, Watford, Dumas and Pritch to start the season. As time goes on I think Crean will have any number of starting units depending on game matchups and practice habits. It will be hard to keep Hulls, Creek and Elston on the bench. Our depth will depend on whether Bawa and Capo come along. A great thing about this team is that we have flexible players that can play two positions (Watford, Elston, Creek, Dumas).

amazing all the different starting 5's we have come up with...the coaching staff will go crazy

I am excited that basketball is finally right around the corner. Is it just me or do the days seem longer between HH and the beginning of games? I am really excited to see what the new-found competition in practice will do on the court. I think that it helps a Davis commit that Etherington is committed.

Not trying to jump in where I was not invited, but I think that the line-up will be determined by the team that IU is playing that day. I would not be surprised to see 4-guards on the court against some of the pre-B10-season teams. In effect, there would be 6 to 7 "starters." I think you will see Rivers, Watford, and VJ III in about every starting lineup, but I could see where Dumes starts, Watford at the 4 with Pritch in the Middle, or a "big" lineup with Watford, Elston or Capo, and Pritchard in the frontcourt (especially against a Big Ten power team like Wisconsin). You can not count out Creek starting by the time B10 season rolls around or sooner, but who is the odd man out? Would you sit VJ III to put Creek in for the "Big" lineup, or go 3-guards with C-Wat at the 4? It depends on match-up. Then there is the incredible unknown, the twin towers of Jobe and Bawa.....It would be like Mourning and Mutumbo in the old Georgetown days or Olajuwon and Sampson in the old Houston days. I can see it now......

Does anyone know where you can see the video or even hear the audio from Crean's speech at the audiotoruim ?

I dont know where to get the video or anything but I went so I can tell you a couple of things I remember him saying. He called VJ III like the poster child of their individual workouts. He said he put on like 20 pounds or so since he showed up last year. He mentioned roth put on about 20 pounds also. He also mentioned that Elston didn't get near the national attention he should have. He also seemed to act like capobianco wouldn't impact much this year but will down the road. And he told the audience if we see Pritchard to ask him to shake your right hand because he never uses that hand at practice. He also said the biggest thing for Pritchard was that he now has to fight for his playing time. Hope you find the video but thoses are some of the things I remember...I hope I was accurate...

Rivers, Dumes and Pritchard must start. Dumes and Rivers are our toughest defenders and TP is tough to dislodge down low. Since this "core" may be offensively challenged I can see VJIII and Watford on the floor with them . I would rotate Creek for VJ , Elston for Watford, Capo for TP and Hulls for Dumes and give Rivers max minutes. I would actually replace Rivers w VJIII and never have Hulls in the backcourt w/o either Rivers or Dumes.

Bawa, Roth are very situational to me

I like this Jerry as long as VIII can limit the turnovers. A true achilles heal in 2008. If the reports are true, the extra 20 pounds certainly will make him stronger with the ball (and on the ball for that matter).

Agree, Rivers is going to be the guy that runs this team and that everyone else feeds off.

and all the journalists seem to forget Rivers when predicting about IU this year (katz, yardbarker for two)

is it weird that i immediately thought Mike Davis when I saw the link?

i thought maybe Crean was going overboard with his whole "uniting the Indiana program" initiative. i almost threw up in my mouth.

I love hearing CTC's comments about the players. Seems he has been talking up VJ3 all summer, Roth and Pritch have some things to work on, but not sure I've heard much about Dumes. Thoughts?

Lineup - Rivers, VJ3, Dumes, Watford, Pritch with a heavy dose of Creek, Elston, and Hulls.

i tend to agree with you, diesel, on having dumes start... i have no stats to back it up but i feel like in several games, especially in conference play, dumes started off games hitting a three or two and generally getting our offense moving. if he can do that again this year i think it would justify his starting position and then, as you say, heavy doses of the freshmen. one of the most frustrating things for me personally last year while watching these guys was the lack of scoring at the beginning of games and the time it took to get the offense together... at this point, with the continued inexperience of this team, i don't think immediate offense at the beginning of a game can be understated.

Yeah, and I think he'll play better this year without having to be "the guy" to have to force stuff all the time. It's going to be hard to keep this senior off the floor (as opposed to Jobe). Most of the leadership should come from Rivers, but Dumes went through it last year and there is just something about playing a B10 game on the road and needing those key baskets you speak of, I think Dumes will be in there, hopefully his experience and leadership will show, and he can also D it up.

Me too, Crean knows fans like to be involved and letting Hoosier Nation in on things is one way to do that. He is not giving away state secrets but it kind of lets us know what is going on. I have read all of the lineup talk and I agree with most what is being said. It seems pretty much guaranteed Rivers and VJ3 will start. Rivers is going to make a huge difference as a shutdown defender in the backcourt.
I think Creek starts from day one. He is a terrific scorer and he is more athletic than Dumes. Plus, does anyone remember how bad Dumes for large parts of the Big Ten schedule last season? To me, he screams offense and energy off the bench. It is impossible to tell how quickly Watford and Elston will transition to college basketball. Whichever one can catch on quicker will see the starting lineup.
Starters- Rivers, VJ3, Creek, Elston and Pritchard. Bench- Dumes, Watford, Bawa and Hulls in the regular rotation with Roth, Capobianco and Jobe filling in as needed.
Bottom line, we know this team will be better in every way. We just don't know who has improved a lot and who has improved a little and we won't until the first game.

I saw him last night in a gas station.

Rivers doesn't get much fanfare, but he will make the biggest difference this year. Travis Walton was the key for MSU's tournament run, and I see a lot of him in Rivers. A lock down defender who can run point and relax younger players. The transition should be minimal since Rivers has been practicing with the team for over a year.

I'm excited about Bawa's future, but I don't see him playing a "big" role this year. Just the nature of the game when you're 7'. He has real deal potential, but it will take a few years. Feel free to prove me wrong though Mr. Bawa and start early.

My 5: Rivers, VJ3, Dumes, Pritchard, Watford...with Creek and Elston gettin heavy rotation time.

Alex - how about a countdown clock for the begininning of the season?

Rivers, Creek, Wataford, Pritch, Bawa
or
Rivers, Creek, Wataford, Eltson, Pritch

what was the last team to win the big ten with a 4 gaurd line up?
Sounds like a reciepe for disaster to me.
I know I can remember our last 4 gaurd line up......not good

That is why Zeller and Plumlee are so important for 11. I feel like we should also be putting more of an effort into AJ Hammons.
Crean can't recruit bigs well though because of his style of play, which would be another topic of conversation.

Most of you probably have seen this but if not here is a great article on Plumlee http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/recr...

My two cents......

* I am DONE with 2010
* It is all about 2011 and 2012.
* For me the jury is still out on DSR, like the kid hopes he and iu continue, but gives a tweener vibe, not a pg, not a shooting guard, not very athletic, but very strong....
* As far as an early prediction for starters....J.Rivers, D.Dumes, and VJ3 are the ones I can pencil in. I will not rule out or be surprised by Elston starting over Wateford.
* I say we do a lot of 3 guard offense this year but I like the pieces we have.

I think the recent beatings we all have taken in our prognostications should lead us to these three important rules:

The first rule of Recruiting Club is that we don't know what we are doing.
The second rule of Recruiting Club is that we don't know what we are doing.
The third rule of Recruiting Club is that we don't know what we are doing.

I think Crean should make a run at Dejuan Marrero. He was a freshman phenom for Bowman Academy this last year. I got to watch him play a couple of times (too bad he couldn't play in the regional) and he really runs the floor and scores at will. Too bad the boilers dominate northwest indiana

Lets go man, we need as many recruits as we can get to show up at the hysteria. The atmosphere should drawl anyone in and not forgetting about the big red banners! WE JOSH SELBY to show up!!!!!!!

Just bought 11"x17" replica championship banners. Going to turn the garage into an IU shrine. My wife is going to paint the center court (IU inside the state) on one wall and hang the banners from the ceiling above and I'm going to candy stripe another wall. I've also got a set of red lockers in there.

Back to JD. I noticed he posted a highlight tape of Eric Gordon. Also he has insidethehall.com posted on there. We have to get him! He is a great underated talent that will develop very well under Creans ability to develop guards. We also need to continue to recruit the best in Indiana. So watch what you say because there are probably a lot of recruits who check this AWESOME website.

Starters
Rivers, VJ3, Creek, Elston, Pritchard
I don't have Watford becaue I think Crean is gonna eventually move him into the starters. He has said plenty of times that Watford needs to get stronger. He will still play a ton. VJ3 is a lock. Poster boy. enough said. Creek has had nothing but praises from coach Crean. He is the prize recruit of this class and there is no way he doesnt start. Elston has gotten a lot of positive feedback from CTC and he is a beast that will be able to crash the boards and get up and down the floor. CTC has been hard on Pritchard but we need his size. I hope and pray Bawa is more developed than people are saying. He does have a huge impact on our future.