Okay, so after reading everyone's comments I think there are two (And a half) logical solutions to fixing the problem (And it is a problem). As I mentioned in my previous post, I'm not a fan of general admission. As an undergrad, I had no problem getting to all of the games at least an hour early. However, as a grad student with more evening classes, I made it in just at tip-off for a good chunk of the games last year. So with general admission I become penalized for being a season ticket holder for 5+ years because I have evening classes? Not fair. So here's my two-pronged plan of attack:

1. Restore the north end of the court to the students. One of my favorite games was as a freshman (Mike Davis era) sitting in those seats, being right next to the IU bench. As someone else mentioned, it was ridiculous that there were Illinois fans in that section for that game.

2. Create a points system. You buy football season tickets? You'll get more floor seats. You buy season tickets for multiple years in a row? You'll get more floor seats. This is the way the alumni system works. The one drawback would be that you'd have lots of crappy seats as a freshman, but if you know down the road you'll be on the floor a lot more, it'll encourage you. I also don't know if it would be possible, but I liked the suggestion of the ticket scanners registering how early you got to the game. Getting there early for football=Better seats for basketball and getting there early for basketball=better seats for next season.

2 1/2: I liked someone's suggestion of making the balcony general admission. I've had to sit in the back row of the balcony multiple times, and while they're not the worst seats in Assembly Hall (Hello, back row of the main level), waiting for people in the rows between me and the front row to trickle in during the first half and half time was stupid. If you get a balcony ticket, it should just say "Balcony." That was the real freshman fans who have a high percentage of balcony seats can get there early enough to at least get decent seats up there.

IF IU were to give the students the better seating, the same student body would need to commit to going and filling the football stadium. It's only fair.

Don't know if anyone has put this already, but I feel the best/most realistic option is
1. Make student seating General Admission - This will make students show up on time, because they want to be much closer to the action.
2. Put student seating back behind the South goal

As for everything else thats wrong, I am not sure it can be addressed until football starts bringing in some real cash/actually selling some tickets. Most universities rely on heavy cash flow from their football, not basketball programs. This is a major issue at the university, and until this is resolved, the athletic department will be forced to do all that is necessary to generate the most revenue it can via basketball.

I think we need to start simple and work our way up
1. Assign student seats by section, not by seat number. This way the earliest arriving students can sit in the front of their section and it will look better for TV.
2. Move the students out of the balcony and closer together. This plan slightly reduces student seats, without a dramatic shake-up: http://tinyurl.com/pyog95
3. Possibly add some type of reward system
- IU student Class of 2012

Assembly Hall is widely considered one of the toughest places to play in the country already. With this system in place right now, it enables the most amount of students to get the most number of games. It seems to me that the majority of people complaining about student seating are the die hard fans that obviously want to be up close all the time. However, most people that get tickets aren't the people posting on this website. The athletic department already doesnt get top value from their donor seats. They use a non-PSL point system to determine seat location. That means someone that has donated for years and years can amass enough points to be so far ahead of the next person, they can donate smaller amounts and still keep their seats over someone who is just recently starting to donate large sums of money.

Why fix something that isn't broken.

I really would like to see them go back to students on both ends of the court. I went to the Illinois game this year and was appalled to see people in orange shirts in the end without students. Some of my most enjoyable games were those where I had court seats (I had court seats when Haston hit his shot over Randolph to beat MSU) and I would rather see a bunch of crazy students in those sections instead of a bunch of old people sitting on their hands.

I'm not a fan of the first come first serve system. Yes it might get the students there sooner but I don't want to put a student in a position where they have to decide between the game or class or having to camp out for days for a good game. I did think of one way they could reward those students who do show up on time for the games. The tickets are scanned at the gate so there should be a way to link when the ticket is scanned to the time the person arrived at the game. You can reward students with better seats in subsequent years if they had good game time attendance and those who don't will be less likely to get the premium seats.

I don't really like the idea of first come first serve because then kids are going to start camping out for big games. I'm a big IU basketball fan and I haven't missed a game in the student ticket plan the 2 years I have been there and I get to all the games early, but I don't want to have to camp out/wait in line for hours. I think they should do some sort of point system so that students who attend all the football games and basketball games from the year before get better seats than people who don't attend sporting events. This would mean seniors who attend alot of sporting events get no balcony seats whereas freshmen should get almost all balcony seats. And maybe try to factor in how early students get to the game by scanning ID's and if a student gets to all the games early then they get better seats.

It's really hard to reorganize where students actually sit, but I know one of the biggest problems is that the students are not all together. The worst section is that random section in G I think and the last 10 rows or so of the sections behind the alumni. Something needs to be done to unite these students with the ones in sections K, L and M where the bulk of the students are. Other that that, it's going to be hard to move students around.

I also want to say, I think students should be able to sell their tickets to non students. But that is another issue for another day.........I am tired of going scalper for the big games like Duke/IU a few years ago.....it was worth it though

I would like to see the students behind both baskets giving hell to the opposing team no matter where they are. I think it would be perfect.

On a side not, I think I read on scoop Carlino may have Bloomington South in his NEAR future......that would be sweet, another kid to help recruit D.Davis.

Here's my thoughts organized by point:

- Less tickets allocated to the students....Right now there are way too many tickets allocated to students who a) don't know who the players are b) don't know the game of basketball and/or c) are only there because everyone else is. I know it is part of being a student, but 7,500 tickets is a little too many. About 3-4,000 would be sufficient.

- Put the students on the ends (like they currently are) and then put them in each of the four corners. I'm not sure how many seats that is, but I would think it would be close to the amount I mentioned. None of the big donors want these seats, yet they are still close enough to the action to be a factor in the games.

- If there is a way to move some of the people on one side of the lower bleachers to another spot (which may not be possible), then make this a student section as well. It would be pretty cool if the side where the bench is located is filled with fans. That way one side is taunting the opposing players and coaches on the bench, while on the other side you could have prospective recruits sitting behind the bench, actually in with the students. What better way to show them what the atmosphere will be like?

- All students seats should be first come, first serve. It is ridiculous to see the student section empty for the first half of the game. Let the real fans sit in the best seats, not whoever gets the best draw in some lottery system.

- Finally, and this doesn't relate to the students per se, but make all non-conference balcony seats $5 and all conference balcony seats $10. Those seats suck, but at least a family could go and enjoy the atmosphere and it would fill up the Hall.

1st come first serve for the students. It needs to be completely surrounding the court and not just behind the basket. On TV, Duke looks massive and intimidating, however when you attend in person the court is painfully small and resembles a HS gym. They have created an atmosphere with the MOST passionate fans (students) who are diehards attending games. If the alumns with $ could embrace a SICK home court advantage putting students around the court. I am an alumn and after road games to Illinois & Duke recognize we can improve.

OK so I think this is an interesting conversation and I can see both sides of the argument I honestly can. However I must say that while I love seeing the students backing this team the way they do I don't think its fair to people who have paid to be season ticket holders for 40 years to move their seats. these people have given a lot to the university over the years through the good times and bad and they deserve to keep the seats they have.

My grandfather has been a season ticket holder since the days before Assembly Hall. He had the same seats second row just shy of midcourt since the Hall opened. He isn't a wealthy man but that was what he always saved for. My grandmother worked for IU for 40 years and I think folks like that deserve to keep something they have been passionate about for their entire lives growing up in bloomington. I was angry enough when their seats were moved last season for richer alumni to move down.

I hope we can all come to a compromise on this situation. I think everyone can be happy in some way if all the groups get together and talk it out.

I voted yes but believe no is the right answer. My reasoning:

YES - I think it is great for the players, the alumni and TV to see the young crazy screaming student fans. Yes, it is good fo rthe older folks to be part of that. I would devote the first 1/4 and farthest 1/4 of each low side and have the old folks in the middle 1/2.

NO - this is the most likely answer due to the fact that IU basketball/sports is a business. Without the money from alumns there is no business anybody wants....no buyout of KS contract and no Tom Crean .

I am planning to travel 1000 miles for the MD vs IU game. If I get shitty seats , or no seats at all I probably will not give as much to the university. Sorry but this the reality of beast.

Jerry, I agree 100% ....scalped tickets in the nose bleeds for the IU-Duke game.....HELLUVA game, crappy seats. I also agree with Brad on the pricing of the tickets. Would like to take my son an IU recruit (2024) but tickets are hard to come by and I have no problems listening to Fish/Leary and turning down the sound at home.....They have done some good deals over Christmas break that were very reasonable......

Absolutely. And not just in basketball. This past year the student section in the end zone was great even with the poor team results. Why not give the students to first twenty rows on either side? It's THEIR team.

And that goes double for football. We need to build the program, and those students with the prime seats once or twice a year will be a lot more rabid alumni fans if they feel they were a part of the action and valued by the program.

I purchased tickets all 4 years at IU.
1. The best year I had seats was my junior year. The worst year, my senior year. I do think their should be an acknowledgement of seniority when it comes to purchasing tickets. Example would be: freshman year 1 to 2 seats on the floor. Senior year 5 to 6 games on the floor.
2. Assembly Hall is structured perfectly for alumni and donors to have great seats. The only way a student section can truly be created is to restructure the alumni, donor and season ticket holders seats. Difficult. Think about it.
3. All seats behind the basket should be for students. East/west lower levels need to be blended more. The balcony should be first come first serve.

So for now I think its all up to Glass and Crean. It will always be a debatable topic until a new stadium is built. I'm sure making sure the students are supportive and going crazy for every home game is at the forefront of Crean's mind and sells this to recruits as well. I would love to see Crean, his assistants, players, Glass and some chosen student body members collaborate and then during Midnight Madness teach the students and fans attending the game some cheers and ways to unite during the game at critical moments. I think that would be awesome. At such a large university that would be the best way to unify everyone and make home games even more intimidating in Assembly Hall. I'm just tired of the swearing and finger pointing that goes no where and shows we are immature and unintelligent fans. Hopefully someone can get that idea to Crean, I think he'd like it.

Tradition - Assembly Hall like Crean said before is one of the top if not the most intimidating place in the nation to play. Its been that way for years with the set up it has had for years. Yes the seats in the balcony suck, but I always had a great time no matter where I was there and I didn't sit in the balcony every game. We don't have the loud jumping around annoying fans to distract the other team like other schools have down there. But you'd kind of be surprised how intimidating older more mature people yelling at the opponents can be. I think it helps with the referees too. I am sure the refs blow off young kids yelling at them all the time. But when they have elders who are doctors, lawyers, etc yelling at them, I bet the rethink some calls sometimes. Tradition - why mess with a good thing, just like when other people tell me that IU needs to build a new basketball arena (please). I am not opposed to adding a few extra students seats here and there, but lets ease up on trying to force the administration to make huge changes. IU is all about tradition - lets keep it that way.

A couple things here. First, student seating has changed a number of times and is not tradition. Even if you value "keeping tradition" as an argument (which I don't) it doesn't hold water here.

Second thing. If a referee is paying enough attention to know the difference between doctors and lawyers heckling him and students heckling him then he is missing the game and not doing his job. That is a weak defense of the seating arrangement.

I don't have a problem with where the students are seated as much as a problem with when they are seated. I'm sick of students not showing up until the 15 or 10 minute mark of the first half. Apparently students don't think the first few minutes of the game are important to the overall outcome of the game. I think IU should go to festival seating to encourage students to come to games early and/or at least on time. This will reward the die hard fans by allowing them to get the best seats. These same students that show up early are also likely the loudest, so getting them next to the court is vital.

Until students start showing up on time, I don't see how rewarding them as a group with better seats benefits the program. Last season, probably close to 90% of the people sitting in non-student sections were in their seats by game time. Compare with something closer to or less than 50% of the students. This is pathetic. Not to mention the games where students with seats in the bleachers or close to the court didn't even bother coming at all.

I still say... this is an easy defense for alumni. For one... the vast majority of students don't have good seats and don't have the motivation to come early. This seems like a "chicken or the egg" argument, but it is hard to say, when the product on the floor is sub par, that students should be at the game early even when they have bad seats. Alumni are forced to because of the points system, but how many alumni wouldn't have gotten season tickets this year if that system wasn't in place? I'm not accusing anyone here because I trust the level of fans on this site would have bought tickets either way... but I don't think you could say that of every alumni.

Furthermore, some of these games have been early evening games during the week. Students have class. I have had student season tickets for 4 years and have more than once been faced with the choice of going to the game on time or losing participation points for the class. Going to school is not like working - there are classes that run until 10 pm and sometimes later. Even on weekdays.

Alumni don't show up on time for those weekday evening games either - and for the same reason. No one complains when the alumni don't show up for a 6 pm tip when they have work until at least 5 pm in Indianapolis, but it is somehow a crime when the students don't show. This double standard isn't fair. Students have class, jobs, homework, presentations, exams, etc. and it doesn't run on a 9-5 schedule. As a grad student, I've missed games for class work. I've showed up late to games because of class work. It is part of student life. Students shouldn't be punished for that.

You make a good point, however, I don't think that 50% of the students are late because of class. I'm sure there are some like yourself in which that is the case, but I think that's the exception and not the rule. Besides if tickets were first come first serve, you would still get a ticket if you show up late, it just wouldn't be down at the bottom. Then on the nights you can be there early you can get the good seats.

Students are ofen times "fair weather" fans, staying at the dorm, apartment, etc. to watch in comfort if the weather is bad... or they don't think we'll win, etc. They always have a great turn out if there's a handout... free t-shirts,towels to wave,very low cost tickets, etc. The alumni (and yes, I am one) are the ones who have supported the university through thick and thin. Tickets have been purchased through the point system which rewards long time support and donations. Students need to wait until they are in a position to actually help the university... and not just if they're in the mood to do so.

Dear Karen, you really gotta try to remember way back when you were a student. Walkin to a game etc, for instance, "fair weather" fans really meant fair weather and wasn't a metaphor.

Maybe if IU's tickets WERE NOT THE SECOND HIGEST IN THE NATION!!!! AND YOU ONLY GOT TWO GOOD SEATS A SEASON MORE PEOPLE WOULD COME OUT

have a taste of your own medicine Karen and compare yourself to all of the other schools, Our Basketball prices are through the roof, and THE STUDENTS, THE ONE'S WHO ARE THERE FOR THE UNIVERSITY deserve to get soem good seats, we are the ones with these "young men" in class, helping them, giving them study guides and tips, I don't remember the last time any donor was in the dorms helping them study

The students don't have anymore right to have good seats than the alumni do. They both have an equal right. Without the students, there is no university, but without the alumni there would be no sports teams, or at least not competitive teams. It's all about getting a good balance for both sides.

I love the flash outfit. Well the seating should improve. i used to think we had awful student seating. That is until i went to UNC. Those seats are god awful. They have riser seats that are behind the baskets, but they are not stadium seating, so short people can't really watch the game. Also students are scattered everywhere and its all crappy seating.

i got 2 friends in that picture...it was the one that was on espn awhile ago.

I agree with most people. They have good arguments, but this is more of a school function and the players are student athletes. I would like to see maybe a small section right on the half court line, opposite the bench, and maybe 20 feet on each side of the centerline reserved for students. It won't affect Mellencamp because he sits more in the corner. I think the students are and can be part of the action. It is intimidating going into the Breslin Center or Cameron Indoor and have those obnoxious student fans right on top of the players. I think it would make a great atmosphere.

On a lighter note....who's got the best name for the student section?

Assembly-holics

It would only be allowed if I were President! :)

There should be three student sections. Each would be designated differently on the ticket. Student would get some games in one, some in the others. With Freshmen getting the lesser quality tickets more heavily and vice versus as you gain credit hours.

I don't know the numbers yet, but one student section should be in the balcony across from the benches. The 2nd behind the opponents bench. And the 3rd on the entire endline next to opponents bench (the band could be in that area too). Each of those sections would be first come first entry. But none of this stupid camping stuff allowed like at purdue or duke. 8am students can begin lining-up.

Reasons seem simple to me.
-The balcony across would give visibilty from the bench of a crazed group of young kids.
-The other two are the same...volume/intimidation behind/beside the opponents bench.

I don't think this would displace the season ticketholders too much (give them some more end seats by IU's bench). And by having specific sections, the first come first entry system can work...and the kids will show up on-time (one of the biggest gripes of alumni).

Solved!

The first issue to solve is getting students to the game prior to tip-off. Go to first come - first seated. Then, only if the seats fill up earlier, should we worry about where the students are seated. Make them show us they will support the team from start to finish before we give them the best seats.

That's easy to say from behind the tv. Students with the good seats tend to show up on time, but where's your motivation with the upper main level or balcony tickets? A lot of times you have a better view at a sports bar.

IU has the second highest season ticket prices in the nation http://www.newson6.com/Global/story.asp?S=98608...
see the link above,

we deserve a better student seating section for the best fans in the world, we have a top 10 recruiting class, and will return to glory soon,

it is now time to give the students the seats they deserve rather than sticking us in the balcony, and the donors in the best seats

The donors will always get seats some way, some how, but as students we are there for four years, and we deserve to see our boys that we go to the wall for, and defended over the last season, up close, and screaming in opponents faces

I live in Oregon and only get the IU television view these days. I'd love to see a large student section on the TV viewing side (bleachers) I think it would make a huge 6th man difference as well as being a great recruiting asset. Rich Alums would have to be reminded that they were students once and we could put Mellemcamp behind tthe bench for television and the recruits. GO IU!

There should be some sort of restructuring. However; I do agree with witt. If we do restructure it cant be done at the expense of the major donors who have the court side seats. Here are a couple of ideas and questions that I have:

1) I think that the bleachers at each end of the floor need to be strictly for students again.

2) Is is possible to make the first 10 to 15 rows of the main section for students only? What if this was a GA section know as the "Crean Belt"? Students would have 1 or 2 GA tickets in their ticket package. That along with the 2 end sections full of students would be amazing! I understand that this would mean relocating a ton of alumni season ticket holder so, it probably wont happen but, it would be fun.

It seems to me that a lot of top tier schools get away with putting students closer to the floor which allows the atmosphere to be even harder to play in for other teams. While IU does have students directly behind both ends of the court it misses having those students right on top of them on the sidelines. I agree that the money is a definite issue but other schools seem to find a way to make it happen.

i think that the whole system needs to change. i'm an 07 grad, so it doesnt effect me as a student anymore, but i've always liked the system used at Maryland (and i never thought i'd like anything that came out of that university after steve blake...). basically they have a scanner at every sporting event that scans the students' id cards. every time the student goes to a sporting event, they earn 1 point, and the more points you accumulate the better lottery seats you get throughout the season. that way the most dedicated fans are closer to the court, older students will automatically have more preference than freshman, and other sports of lesser interest get better attendance numbers.

as far as the seating in the building: give the students back the baskets... us alumni have had our fun in the sun (oh that michigan st. game...the patrick ewing jr put back!), let's let another wave of students have the same.

Witt makes a good argument, but I believe that students would be willing to pay the extra money. I would say this year was the exception to the rule. He is absolutely correct when he says these changes would make prices go up for students.

Lets not lock out our older compatriots all together (I got your back Mellencamp). But lets make more seats available to students around the court. They'll be willing to pay the bill for great seats and an even better basketball experience...it was easily the best money I ever spent in college.

Lets not forget that Crean can leverage Indiana's version of the Izzone for recruiting. Better Recruits = Better Teams = More Money for IU

I'm okay with the current seating. It stinks to be in the back rows of the balcony, but you live for those games on the floor. Above that, the best games were the ones where the "Stand Up Old People" cheers worked. I think it is the students' responsibilities to get our older compatriots riles up.

Also, eliminating premium seating for people with money could significantly hurt the program's income - which funds a significant portion of IU athletics. The reality is that if students want season tickets with a larger student section, they'll have to pay more. Season tickets were around $300 the past couple of years with 1-2 games in awesome seats and the rest split between decent and not good seats. Are students willing to pay 500 or 600 dollars to have 5-6 games in the student section? I doubt it, especially considering the University had to drop ticket prices to get students to show up this season.

Personally, I would rather see more effort to make it possible to attend away games and travel with the team. I think this would be a better investment in the long haul. Can you imagine 1000 Hoosiers clad in Cream and Crimson mocking the Cameron Crazies?

Hoo Hoo Hoo....

Not that i believe the current system is that terrible, but i do know that it could be better. The University of Kentucky where my girlfriend goes has a much reater system. I am for making one side of the stadium an entire first come first serve system packing as many students as we can on one side. Then there will not be students ruining parents and younger kids times by yelling profanity and standing . I think it could work because you could even leave both ends open on the sides to high paying alumni as well as one entire side of seats. This system would give the ability for die hard fans like myself the oppurtunity to get their extremly early and camp out gaureenting my spot in the first couple of rows for big games. Over the past 3 years i have had to sit in top rows in all of the big games watching people who couldn't name the five starters on the floor sit in front of me almost ruining the game by asking questions. If it was first come first serve student section like most other great programs have, it would be louder and a more entertaining system for everyone. sorry for the rambling

I'm really not a fan of first-come, first-served and I've had student season tickets for years. I just fear that it would become like football games--drunk students who arrive late will swoop in and take over seats vacated by the actual dedicated fans who get there early and then have to go to the bathroom or something.

The other problem with it is that there would be camping out, most likely, before big games (Like Duke a few years ago), and that's something the University doesn't want. I know other schools have their traditions like that, like Paternoville for the PSU football team, but I think for the foreseeable future IU's going to do assigned seating.

I liked when the students had both ends of the court. I think restoring that would make the biggest difference. However, there are so many bad seats in Assembly Hall, that there won't really be a good solution until some time down the road when we build a new arena.

I agree more or less. Your plan would definitely help fill the student section by tipoff. Maybe everyone would actually leave the bar and get to the game on time. I've always been annoyed by that. The atmosphere improves by 500% by the 13:00 mark.

I like to see the students in all bleacher sections around the floor and the first few rows behind the wall.

What's with the purdue guy? put him in row 44 in the balcony.

Last year there were three different seating/remodel plans online and you could pan around and see the variations. All three tried to improve the views and one even reduced seating, if I remember correctly. Perhaps Alex or one of you could locate that site/info as I have been unable to. Also it seems that one plan had luxury boxes for the rich alums or corporate interests.