Hoosier loss overshadowed by Dumes’ shenanigans

by Alex Bozich in Commentary | February 7th, 2009

I considered boring you with another AP style recap of IU’s 75-47 loss at Michigan State, but as Devan Dumes was tossed shortly after throwing his third elbow of the game, I quickly changed direction.

I realize it’s a long season and the players are probably frustrated with the losses that are piling up. It’s not easy to come out each game, play hard and know no matter how well you play, you’re probably going to lose. But the behavior from Dumes was flat out unacceptable. I was willing to dismiss his elbow on Craig Moore during the Northwestern game as a lapse in judgment during the heat of battle.

After today, I’m left wondering if Dumes should be punished by either Indiana or the Big Ten. For those of you who missed the game, here’s a blow by blow recap of what went down:

21 seconds into the game, Dumes is whistled for a foul.
At the 17:32 mark of the first half, he’s slapped with his second foul and heads to the bench.
Re-enters at the 12:44 mark and by the 12:03 mark, he’s whistled for his third foul (offensive).
With 16:31 remaining in the second half, a replay shows that Dumes elbowed Michigan State forward Goran Suton in the crotch during transition. The officials reviewed the play and decided to allow him to remain in the game, but ESPN announcers later revealed that they didn’t have access to the one replay that clearly showed the elbow was intentional.
At the 2:10 mark, Dumes was hit by an inadvertent elbow by Michigan State forward Tom Herzog and retaliated with an elbow of his own. It was his fifth foul and also a flagrant and Dumes was ejected.

I have no problem with guys competing and playing with an edge. But when you’re throwing unprovoked elbows, especially in the waning moments of a blowout loss, you’ve got all of the elements of a cheap shot. And that’s the last thing Tom Crean needs to have on his hands while trying to rebuild a program that, let’s face it, has lost some credibility with the events that transpired last season. He’s trying to rebuild the privelege of wearing the IU uniform that’s been missing as of late.

So my questions for you, ITH’ers, are as follows: Did you view the elbows as intentional? How, if at all, should Dumes be punished? Thoughts on those questions as well as your reaction to the game are welcome in the comments, boys and girls.

Tags: Devan Dumes

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dabig

The first elbow wasn't intentional, and the last (attempted) elbow removed any doubt there may have been about the incident with Suton. It doesn't matter because the last incident in and of itself was enough to warrant punishment. Five game suspension and a personal apology from Dumes to Michigan and Michigan's team.

dale11

#1 was not intentional and shouldn't have been a foul. #2 and #3 were clearly intentional and i wouldn't be surprised if he misses a game.

raor

I didn't see the first two fouls, so I can't comment on those. But the third foul (swinging his elbows with the ball) seemed a bit like a flop by the MSU player - there certainly was contact however. The elbow to Suton's nards certainly seemed in-character for the Dumes we've seen lately. But, I'm not as sold on it being intentional as ESPN's announcers were. I think Hightower giving Dumes the benefit of the doubt was the correct call.

The final elbow, the flagrant one, absolutley warranted an ejection. In light of that foul alone (and especially considering Dumes' recent behavior) I think Dumes deserves a game suspension. I think he'll get it too, I just hope it comes from IU.

ChiTownHoosier

Dumes needs to sit AT LEAST one game, probably two. When Zack Novak from Michigan (and my hometown of Chesterton, IN) threw an elbow and was ejected against Ohio State he was forced to sit out a game. That was ONE elbow thrown, and from a kid on a team with something to lose.

What I think is more important here though is continuing to set a tone of DISCIPLINE. Too often Discipline is the biggest problem in college athletics and after the shenanigans Under Mike Davis and He who's name we shall not speak, it is important to keep rebuilding our image. This is the first real discipline test, that we know of, for the new regime and I think it would speak highly of IU to pre-empt any possible Big Ten reprimand and take control of their players.

IUED

Get rid of him I would rather lose ugly than have someone playing dirty

peaychris

i feel the same way... i think IU pre-samson (the knight days) always played tough but fair... Dumes is a reflection of the rebuliding process and a reflection on crean. i wouldnt mind a 5 gamer and if he comes back and pulls anything close to what he did today i would tell him to not the the door hit him on the way out. hey it might even help the scholarship situation..

Jim

Oh please. Dumes was out of line, but come on. Dane Fife was worshiped by our fans, and he constantly threw elbows, played "dirty", and for the love of God, he bit a player. Its the Big Ten. these things happen. Don't act like our players have never been involved in these types of things.

And suggesting that he will get a five game suspension is just asinine.

smokey in Florida

I agree wholeheartedly! Remember a few years ago how dirty Illinois played? I could not stand that team because of that. We had a man named Marco also that played dirty and I quit watching the games. There is no place for it at Indiana, get rid of him before the problem gets worse. You can't change who a person is by giving a suspension.

Hardwood83

First call was weak and completely unwarranted. The last one was a foul but not worth a suspension by itself. The Crotch-shot is what gets him a game off in my opinion, maybe more depending on his attitude & acceptance of it. They did fade down the stretch but it is remarkable how much better they are playing overall then 6 weeks ago. They still haven't reached their (limited) potential but I am proud of the continued effort and content that Crean is gonna get it done.

Matthew Hawkins

#1 was unintentional, but the rest was unacceptable! Crean needs to sit him for at least 2 games before the Big 10 even gets involved. Dumes was lucky to still be playing after the elbow on Suton!

dale11

Side note -- anyone see Knight's sweater on gameday?

jgongora86

The only satisfaction one can get out of this season is that we played hard and played with honor. What Dumes did tarnishes something we were trying to recover from the past six years. I say kick him out for five games. No more excuses from us, or our basketball program.

DMJ

Not like losing Dumes is going to be a blow to our NCAA tourney chances or anything. Crean can't afford to let this happen without punishment in his first year or it'll reflect poorly on the upcoming years. I'd sit him out for the Minnesota game but allow him to return next weekend for Illinois. Talk with him and tell him he needs to cut the shit or he'll be right back on the bench.

h09sier

#1 was not even a foul. An offensive player is allowed enough space to make strong movements with the ball, and he barely touched the guy. #2, I'm still undecided. I didn't have any sound, so I couldn't hear what espn was saying. I think that's a good thing, honestly. At first I thought it was definitely accidental, like he was falling. I still think that's possible. #3 was legitimate, and I agree with the ejection. HOWEVER, I still have my doubts on #2. Simply seeing #3 doesn't mean #2 was intentional. He could have been getting crap from MSU all game about it, and wanted to just throw a real one out of frustration. Who knows. But Dumes does always play with a chip on his shoulder, which I like. It gives him an edge. He needs to control himself better, but I don't think he's a dirty player some make him out to be. Like I said, I didn't hear the commentary, but ESPN has made a big deal about many elbow stories recently, and not all of them have panned out. If I had to guess, I'd say Dumes gets a 1 game suspension, just because it was on national television vs the Big 10's favorite bball child, MSU. He might deserve the suspension, he might not. I just hope he comes out firing in the next game he plays

DMJ

In case you were wondering how much ESPN is going to play this up, they just mentioned it in a teaser for the 11pm EST Sportscenter.

Something like: "A huge day of college hoops. Did the #1 team survive? A Hoosier throwing elbows [showing angle of Dumes' elbow to Suton's nuts], and a coach in tears [Nebraska over Texas]."

The WWL is definitely gonna try to make a bigger story of this than it probably should be. Oh well.

Hoosier Fan

What I have respected the most about Crean and the program he has looks to build all relies on CHARACTER. When building the foundation we cannot have anyone undermining that mission. If I am in Crean's shoes, it hurts, but Dumes has a serious talking to and sits out at least a game. IU will win again, we will be respected again, and we will see ourselves at the top of the pile again under Crean. What will make it great is it will be done with character, class, toughness, and will. Dumes, learn to wear the IU uniform.

jgongora86

I'm really starting to dislike espn. They are like the " big brother" in a george orwell novel. They manipulate things so they could feed things to an audience.

AZdon

It's INDIANA. For years every time Coach Knight had any kind of meltdown they played it up. Davis' meltdown at KY, likewise. Then the scumsucking Sampson took the athletic department to the all time low with his shennanigans, and ESPN was there to bad mouth Indiana.

Perhaps it's jealousy. Bottom line, we don't need Dumas' cheap shots. I say suspend him. If he EVER does anything like that again, he's gone. For good.

msdiu81

Yank his scholarship after this season. We don't need anymore thugs playing for us. He will get no more love from me the rest of the way. Beginning with the NU game, he has established a pattern of behavior that is not what IU should not put up with nor is good for rebuilding our program. Yes he can score sometimes, but we'll have plenty of replacement power coming next year. Later Dumes.

generalfan89

Mr. Dumes should be kicked off the team. This whole season we have seen his attitude. This is just the icing on the cake for me. Even if he is our leading scorer, we play better without him. The whole first half we hung with MSU. As soon as he came in, in the second half we began to fade. Either he changes fast or he is done with the team for this year and the years to come.

Taskmaster75

Kicking him off the team is simply an emotional response. The kid still isn't used to Big Ten play and how physical it is. This is his first year in the Big Ten guys, a 1-2 game suspension is fine with me, just something that makes him thin twice.

AZdon

After reviewing the game via DVR, I think the ejection was justified. IMO, the first elbow (end of first half) appeared to be accidental and inadvertent. Dumas was rightly given the benefit of the doubt.

I could see the call on the elbow to Suton's crotch going either way. Natural running motion? Perhaps. Ed Hightower saw it that way. Again, Dumas get the benefit of the doubt.

The final elbow certainly did appear to be intentional and flagrant. Again, IMO, the ejection was justified. He'd already gotten away with two elbows - either of which COULD have been called flagrant.

I understand that the Hoosier team must be incredibly frustrated, however, that is no excuse. It's an honor and a privilege to wear the Cream and Crimson uniform. It's not a reward for thugs. We had enough of that last year.

Matt_J

I didn't see these parts of the game, but if there's any question as to whether the elbows were intentional, then I think Crean has to sit Dumes for at least one game, maybe more. I wouldn't think that he needs to be kicked off the team, but a definite message needs to be sent.

I know that's basically what others are saying. I'm just adding my little bit to it.

James

Lets not all act like a bunch Kentucky fans and completely over react to one game and a lot of mounting frustration. Dumes has been a solid contributor and a good player for the Hoosiers this year and there is no reason to talk about getting rid of him. Suspend him? Sure do it...that ball shot was uncalled for and pretty bush. And there is no question that they were intentional because they obviously were. Im not saying that I, hoosier fans, or the coaching staff/administration should be ok with behavior like this...but get rid of him?? Come on now...
Its been a tough season for the fans...so just think about how hard its been for the players.

AZdon

Yeah, it;s been a tough year for the players... but you don't see Jones, Prichard, Taber or the others taking cheap bush-league shots at the other players... frustrated or not. Didn't we have enough of that crap last year with Sampson and the dope smoking, class skipping team?

I say punish him and include the message that this is his ONLY chance. One more time of anything questionable and he's gone. Indiana basketball is much better than that... and it's certainly bigger than any one player, regardless of whether or not he's a "solid contributor".

silkyslim

I concur, 1 to 5 game suspension for the poor choice.

We are rebuilding our reputation as well as our team. We don't need that negative distraction or behavior on IU.

A clear message must be sent, & consequences to drive the message home.

HoosierSmitty

I'm not sure a one game suspension gets it done. Maybe a couple of games would suffice.

Unlike everyone else, I'm not even convinced the first elbow (3rd personal foul) was unintentional. There wasn't much contact, but it appeared as if Dumes might have given a little extra extension on the elbow when he started to feel the contact.

I've seen it several times this year from Dumes, and it's unacceptable. 3 times in one game is ridiculous.

Duff

:Yesterday absolutely erases all the good things Dumes did against Iowa. He has to sit out a couple of games to make sure everyone understands this crap doesn't happen at Indiana. I was completely embarassed as I watched his idiotic play.

JerryCT

We did not need this especially on national TV.

Dumes needs a teary eyed "Teddy Kennedy" Chappaquidick-like news conference and a public and private apology to MSU and to all of IU nation. Then a game suspension and no starting the rest of the year.

The damage this does to Crean's reputation and IU is not worth Devan Dumes......he needs to know and feel that right now.

As for the game, I feel I can see the weight room paying off in WIlliams, Roth, Jones and especially Taber and his newly acquired agility. They donot look like the same kids from early in the season

April W

I should start out by saying I am an MSU fan, who is also a Tom Crean fan and as such, cheer for IU whenever they aren't playing MSU. I was disappointed in the actions of Dumes. I understand it's been a frustrating season for the players but Crean is such a class act that I think you've got to handle yourself better just out of respect for your coach. I too thought the first elbow was unintentional and probably had some flopping from msu's walton. but the cheap shot to the groin of Suton? NOT a natural running motion and the third elbow just completely uncalled for. I have no doubt that coach Crean will take strong action over this. He does not need this kind of behavior when he's trying so hard to rebuild a glorious program like Indiana. Also as an aside, I was really impressed with how Indiana hung in there with my spartans in the first half. I know the second half was more lopsided but I really think IU is going to be a strong program probably quicker than a lot of people expect. Coach Crean will do great things with this program. Hats off to you.

MikeinNC

He needs a couple game suspension to send a clear message...one of the key themes of this season is that we are bringing back true Indiana basketball and "playing the right way" even though we know the won/loss record is going to be very disappointing. Send the boy a clear message, I suspect that while he is out of the lineup we will be surprised with the way someone else steps up.

JerryCT

Agree. DO we need him to win ? Yes with about a 70% probability. On a scale of 1 to 10 winning is about a 2 in importance this year. Therefore he is worth about .7*2=1.4, . .............. or not that much.

Phillip

Dumes should sit 5 games, apologize to MSU players, Coach Izzo and Hoosier fans. This behavior challenges everything Crean has put in place throughout the year both on and off the court and can NOT be tolerated and must be dealt with immediately.

Jim

I'm sorry, but when has there ever been a 5 game suspension for throwing elbows? This is just getting ridiculous. This doesn't "damage" IU's reputation. He played stupid yesterday, and got caught, but this is hardly the first time an IU player has done these things (once again, Dane Fife, etc). Stop overreacting.

tberry

Obviously the elbows were intentional and that is not INDIANA.

There needs to be a one game suspension and then not start at least the next game. Coach Crean needs to nip this type of behavior immediately and let all the players know what IU Sportsmanship and decorum is!!!

MikeyD

too cool...yes i did. suspend dumas for 1 game. that should do the trick. bad judgment but 1 game should do.

RIC

I see Dumas getting to know each and every step in Assembly Hall on a personal basis...I'm sure Coach Crean will deal with it internally, as it should be...Old School like Coach Knight!

Kelin Blab

Give Dumes a game suspension and a solid warning.. no need to go overboard here....

MillaRed

Pull his scholarship? Kick him off the team? 5 game suspension? I'll remind you folks this kid chose Indiana over Ohio State this year. The fact he walked into this rats nest of a season defines a lot of character. This guy has the potential to be All-Big Ten next season.

Clearly he needs to chill out and we'll leave that to the coach. There is a certain 1-2 game suspension on the horizon and I would be shocked if we see anything close to this type of behavior in the future.

To those of you on this blog that follow Purdue, Michigan State, Illinois etc......I personally have never visited one blog following your teams, because frankly I could care less. The fact you are on an INDIANA blog only confirms your infatuation with the program and the 5 banners hanging in the stands. We're all really shocked you think Dumes should receive a harsh punishment.

Kelin Blab

People keep this in mind........"At least he ain't doing anything Michael Phelps/IU last season style"......

Now if he had elbowed a PU player....you would not have one negative thread on this post....which is clearly acceptable....

And I agree Milla....I also think the 'banner' infacuation compounded by the not so dominant season PU is having leads many to this blog...I love it....keep em comin'...don't be surprised your boilers find themselves in a close one with the baby hoosiers this year.........

silkyslim

How about a one game suspension and 1000 laps ala 'Coach Carter' movie.
Does that seem fair enough?

Maybe he can run the new stadium steps until the cows come home.
Just please have some kind of consequence to ensure the lesson is clearly learned.

I am disappointed by this poor choice/behavior for the first time this year which for me has been an interesting & exciting work in progress.

Hoosier_Hound

I would give him a two game suspension and have him run until he's too tired to swing his elbows. I think it should be more than one game for several reasons: he's an upperclassman who should know better, there were three elbows not just one, and this behavior has been building for him and it needs to get nipped. Crean needs to set a precedent here or other players are going to start acting out of frustration, too.

Jay

1 game should be fine. My guess would be that Sutan (Spelling?) was not entirely innocent. It happens in football all the time. MSU plays hard, not dirty, sometimes people lose control, no excuse just a fact.

Phillip

fyi.....suspended indefinitely

silkyslim

Crean is on top of things. That bodes well for the long term.

Hoosier_Hound, I liked your comment to run him until he is too tired to swing his elbows.

The next question is it o.k. to elbow a Purdue player if it helps their IQ scores? ;o)

BFowler

I commented back during the NW game that I thought he cheap-shotted Moore from NW. I commented his actions after he hit the big shot against Iowa were actions of a person who wanted/needed the spotlight and could not care less about the team.

I am from the same part of the world as Mr. Dumes and knew some of his high school coaches, and I heard the same thing from them that is manifest now, his attitude is the only thing keeping him back. I thought a couple of years away and the opportunity to play at IU would give him reason to change, but he keeps displaying the same playground-type behavior that is unacceptable on this stage and especially at this time.

I do not know what the acceptable punishment ought to be, but he needs to know he is wasting a good opportunity and good talent to act in such a way. I thought the rest of the team did not deserve their efforts to have it tainted by the actions of one player. I thought the first elbow was part of the game, but he was reacting to the way Walton was playing him instead of using his aggressiveness against him. The second was clearly intentional as he had room to run around but chose to engage. The third, was clearly out of frustration, but was completely unneccessary. I would be embarrassed if I were him....I only hope he can learn from it.

JimmyChitwood

I agree with Taskmaster 75 that people are reacting too radically and emotionally to this situation. And that is the most valid point made by anyone so far. Calling for Dumes to be kicked off the team or suspended for 5 games is an emotional response to what was obviously poor judgment by Dumes.

And to call Dumes a “thug” is ignorant.

Yes Dumes let his actions and emotions slip out of control, but it was in the middle of a Big Ten game. And, absolutely none of the readers of this blog know what it is like to go through such a frustrating season like this year's team is. Remember, these are 18-22 year old men we are talking about. It is not like Dumes is skipping class to go smoke weed, or constantly disrespecting or completely ignoring the authority of the interim head coach a la last year.

Dumes, as with the rest of this year's squad, deserve nothing but our support and respect for caring enough about IU basketball to work their tails off day in and day out, only to see limited short-term results.

I am sick of sitting in the stands at Assembly Hall and listening to fans and students belittle OUR players.

I constantly hear our own fans make fun of Kyle Taber for his lack of speed and ability. Kyle Taber may not be the most athletic player. But he tries just as hard as (probably harder than) anyone else out there, and we would be even worse off without him because we are small as it is and Pritchard is often in foul trouble.

I also hear fans complain every time Pritchard makes a mistake, and often hear people refer to him as a "pussy." Tom Pritchard may make stupid fouls and fail to finish from time to time. But, he is a freshman who was forced to be our team's sole inside threat from the day he stepped on campus. Not to mention he has the burden of defending and competing on the boards against bigger, stronger, more experienced big men throughout the Big Ten.

It is time for our fans to stop spending their time criticizing our players and instead spend it supporting them and looking forward to turning the corner and building momentum for the future.

That said, a 1 or 2 game suspension is probably appropriate for Dumes.

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