My hope is Crean gets the top talent, and then I expect Crean to develop that talent and mesh it into a team. Sometime the top talent leaves (EJ, Oden, Rose) and sometimes it stays 3-4 years (DJ, Hansbrough, Rush, Sean May).

The point is, I don't think anybody should say, 'I don't want this type of player or that type of player'. As long as Crean brings in talented players that play hard and go to class, then let the chips fall where they may as far how long the kids stay. Plus, it only helps a program in recruiting to have proven, successful players in the NBA.

True. There's only one “champion” each season. Even if you have a super-talented roster, nothing is guaranteed. (Memphis/UNC/UCLA for example). Championships don't simply fall into a team's lap three or four years after landing a No. 1 recruiting class. Championships are indeed icing on the cake…so the question is, what is the cake?

I think we found the main ingredient (a solid base) in Coach Crean. Now we just need to attract talent (the rest of the ingredients).

As far as the players go, I'm not sure I buy the polarity between one-and-done v. four year “grinders”. I'm sure there are plenty of one-and-done's who make fine team players (Derrick Rose), just as there are four-year players who distract from “team” play.

I expect Coach Crean to be able to attract top talent and develop each season's players into a “team” that maximizes that talent. I also expect Coach Crean's to run a clean operation and emphasize the “student-athlete” aspects of college athletics. If he can do both, then I can simply enjoy the ride and be proud to be and IU fan. As far as championships go, I guess I am willing to let the chips fall where they may. (though I'm confident that it can be done at IU).

Great post and discussion.

I think EJ definitely loved IU and played hard for IU, at least until Sampson ruined the season. I think a lot of IU fans are jaded on 1 and done players because of what happened this year, but the blame should go to Sampson for screwing up a potentially unbelievable season, not EJ or other talented kids.

In a perfect world I'd rather have kids stay 3-4 years also, but in the real world I want the most talent we can get year in and year out, and then trust that Crean is a good enough coach to get them to play hard and in the team concept. And then also hope that the players stay a few extra years, similar to the kids currently at UNC or at Kansas this past year.

Sounds like we're not that far off on our thinking. I wasn't criticizing Crean, I think he's done a phenomenal job with the hand he's been dealt. I don't expect 5-star recruits right now, I was speaking toward the future and the larger scale, not this season.

But overall, I just think you can (and if you want to win you almost have to) get 5-star recruits that are NBA talent/NCAA championship talent, that play team basketball and play hard.

I think there is this misconception that all 5-star recruits are selfish guys that don't play hard and only care about the NBA. Do you think Mike Conley was a me-first, all I care about is the NBA type of player? I would have loved to have him and Oden at IU. I thought they played extremely hard and played team oriented basketball in their one year.

For now I think what Crean has done in a short time is phenomenal. Bringing in character guys that he can mold into a team. Winning will bring in the better recruits and restore the university to its once heralded status. I would love for IU to have the roster that UNC, Kansas, Duke, and UCLA have but, that is going to take time. 5 star athletes are not going to want to come play for a program that is marred in controversy and sadly, that is where we are right now.

Let's be honest, IU is not going to be competing for national prominence for at least a few years, so for now, I will gladly take the undersized kid who is ecstatic about putting on the candy strips and willing to work twice as hard. Like you said, the real test will be what can Crean get out of these guys.

Look at the most recent NCAA champions. What's not to like about this years Kansas roster? They had plenty of highly touted 5-star recruits. Rush, Arthur, Chalmers, Collins…You wouldn't want that roster and to win the championship? You wouldn't want the current UNC roster, Hanbrough, Lawson and Ellington were all blue chip recruits and are destined for the NBA and will definitely be the favorite for the title. Or the UNC team that won the title, May, McCants and Felton, all 5-star recruits on a team that played team basketball.

I'd rather have a team with top talent and 5-star recruits, it's the coaches JOB to get those guys to buy in and play team basketball. If they don't then you have the wrong coach. Even Carmelo who was one-and -done. He was an outstanding teammate and leader the year they won because Boheim got him to play within the team concept and made his focus winning an NCAA title.

I in no way said that Bob Knight didn't have good recruits, I simply said the recruits bought into the team concept and no player was bigger than the university which is what a lot of players now-a-days, believe. They are fed from a young age that they are going to be stars, and they think because they have a jumpshot that they can do whatever they want, as long as it doesn't hurt their draft stock.

I love to see IU win as much as anyone, I have been lucky enough that my family has had season tickets for about 20 years. I also love to see the “team” excel, in all aspects. After watching what Davidson did this year, I really understood what a team was all about. Not many people could name another player from that team other than Curry but their run was because they played as a team. You don't get that cohesion if you are shuffling in new guys every 2 years which is what these 5 stars recruits are looking at.

Direct quote from Bob McKillop:

“My greatest strength is to teach players to understand that when individuals surrender their individual self for the sake of the whole, the team discovers the best it can become..”

Are you guys for real, you'd rather have that than win an NCAA title and have a stock of IU players excelling in the NBA? Seriously, is that what you're saying?

I'm stunned, I don't really even know what to say. I guess I'd like to hear everyone else's opinion. Am I in the minority here?

PS: Can we please stop this misconception that Bob Knight didn't have top recruits that were projected as NBA talent/first round picks? It's simply false. His later teams that didn't win were like that, but Bob Knight's teams that won titles had top recruits projected as NBA talent.

All of our good teams had NBA talent. It's a total misconception that Bob Knight won with lesser recruited players that weren't the most talented but played hard team basketball.

That described Knights teams that didn't win. His teams that won a lot had plenty of first round draft picks and highly recruited players on it. They didn't all pan out in the NBA, but while at IU they were considered top recruits and NBA prospects. Isiah Thomas? Hall-of Famer. Kent Benson, wasn't he the #2 pick in the draft? Steve Alford was a first round pick, I believe a lottery pick. Those are the IU teams that won titles.

Also, look at the top teams in college basketball now, they all have top recruits and first round picks on them.

Do we want to be Butler? Or do we want to be UNC, Kansas, UCLA or Duke. I personally fall in the latter group, seems like a lot of IU fans fall in the former, and I flat out don't understand that.

My hope is Crean gets the top talent, and then I expect Crean to develop that talent and mesh it into a team. Sometime the top talent leaves (EJ, Oden, Rose) and sometimes it stays 3-4 years (DJ, Hansbrough, Rush, Sean May).

The point is, I don't think anybody should say, 'I don't want this type of player or that type of player'. As long as Crean brings in talented players that play hard and go to class, then let the chips fall where they may as far how long the kids stay. Plus, it only helps a program in recruiting to have proven, successful players in the NBA.

My hope is Crean gets the top talent, and then I expect Crean to develop that talent and mesh it into a team. Sometime the top talent leaves (EJ, Oden, Rose) and sometimes it stays 3-4 years (DJ, Hansbrough, Rush, Sean May).

The point is, I don't think anybody should say, 'I don't want this type of player or that type of player'. As long as Crean brings in talented players that play hard and go to class, then let the chips fall where they may as far how long the kids stay. Plus, it only helps a program in recruiting to have proven, successful players in the NBA.

My hope is Crean gets the top talent, and then I expect Crean to develop that talent and mesh it into a team. Sometime the top talent leaves (EJ, Oden, Rose) and sometimes it stays 3-4 years (DJ, Hansbrough, Rush, Sean May).

The point is, I don't think anybody should say, 'I don't want this type of player or that type of player'. As long as Crean brings in talented players that play hard and go to class, then let the chips fall where they may as far how long the kids stay. Plus, it only helps a program in recruiting to have proven, successful players in the NBA.

True. There's only one “champion” each season. Even if you have a super-talented roster, nothing is guaranteed. (Memphis/UNC/UCLA for example). Championships don't simply fall into a team's lap three or four years after landing a No. 1 recruiting class. Championships are indeed icing on the cake…so the question is, what is the cake?

I think we found the main ingredient (a solid base) in Coach Crean. Now we just need to attract talent (the rest of the ingredients).

As far as the players go, I'm not sure I buy the polarity between one-and-done v. four year “grinders”. I'm sure there are plenty of one-and-done's who make fine team players (Derrick Rose), just as there are four-year players who distract from “team” play.

I expect Coach Crean to be able to attract top talent and develop each season's players into a “team” that maximizes that talent. I also expect Coach Crean's to run a clean operation and emphasize the “student-athlete” aspects of college athletics. If he can do both, then I can simply enjoy the ride and be proud to be and IU fan. As far as championships go, I guess I am willing to let the chips fall where they may. (though I'm confident that it can be done at IU).

Great post and discussion.